MMA NEEDS A "standing 8 count" ? FEDOR vs Bader

[-guerilla-]

Once again, halting the fight takes away the advantage of the top fighter. Checking a submission does not, checking a cut does not.

By that logic:

If a fighter sustains a serious cut why doesn't the referee just stop the fight?

Why should the cut fighter get the artificial Advantage?

if you got your man bleeding and he can't see You've Won and they shouldn't halt the fight to check on that cut they should just stop it and can declare you the winner

 

[-guerilla-]

Remember the promoters have every reason in the world to stop fights as quick as possible... in the Bader/Fedor fight the promoters had a lot more invested in Bader winning that's why they stopped it quick for him whereas fador practically had to smash mir head flat before they stopped his fight with seven heavy unanswered blows as compared to baders two heavy blows.

You have got to keep the promoter honest or else they will simply stop the fight and rip you off for your pay-per-view money.

if they could get away with it they would stop the fight on the first strike declare it a knockout Victory and move to the next fight that way no one would get hurt, the fights would finish quickly and they could brag that they had 100% knockout ratio in their fights

but the fans won't stand for that because they want to see a real fight.

The problem is you're seeing less and less of a real fights anymore

the greatest comebacks in mixed martial arts history will no longer occur if the referee can jump in there and stop a fight on the first knockdown

Watch this video and remember none of these men died, none of these men have brain damage this is a sport for Warriors Let Them Fight

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

By that logic:

If a fighter sustains a serious cut why doesn't the referee just stop the fight?

Why should the cut fighter get the artificial Advantage?

if you got your man bleeding and he can't see You've Won and they shouldn't halt the fight to check on that cut they should just stop it and can declare you the winner

The ref waits until there is a lull in the action or the fighters are in a neutral position before they check the cut, never when the advantaged fighter is about to potentially stop their opponent.

 

[-guerilla-]

The ref waits until there is a lull in the action or the fighters are in a neutral position before they check the cut, never when the advantaged fighter is about to potentially stop their opponent.

That's what the rule book says.

In reality things don't always work that way.

Like I said by that logic you shouldn't halt the bout because that blood should be blinding your opponent and that's an advantage you earned...plus the psychological advantage and they are likely rocked because they've clearly just been hit HARD.

SO your saying its ok to interfere with the winning fighters advantage by halting a contest in order to check the condition of the hurt fighter?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

That's what the rule book says.

In reality things don't always work that way.

Like I said by that logic you shouldn't halt the bout because that blood should be blinding your opponent and that's an advantage you earned...plus the psychological advantage and they are likely rocked because they've clearly just been hit HARD.

SO your saying its ok to interfere with the winning fighters advantage by halting a contest in order to check the condition of the hurt fighter?

It is ok to check the cut of a fighter if there is a lull in the action when standing or the fighters are in a neutral position on the ground with no advancement being made. That way the fighters can be returned to the pre-break position if the fighter can continue.

 

[-guerilla-]

It is ok to check the cut of a fighter if there is a lull in the action when standing or the fighters are in a neutral position on the ground with no advancement being made. That way the fighters can be returned to the pre-break position if the fighter can continue.

SO your saying its ok to interfere with the winning fighters advantage by halting a contest in order to check the condition of the hurt fighter as long as its for a cut not dizziness?

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Why don't you move to Russia if you hate America so much, you fucking commie lover? Shit idea, shit thread.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

SO your saying its ok to interfere with the winning fighters advantage by halting a contest in order to check the condition of the hurt fighter as long as its for a cut not dizziness?

Nope, you can check for a cut, dizziness or the fighters "ability to continue" as long as it's done when there's a lull in the action or in a neutral position.

 

[Spookv]

The sport your looking for is Boxing, go back to it.

But on the real, sometimes in big fights (I.E) contender, interim, title, superfights. I would love to see it go a little longer until there is a definitive ending. Ko or submission. I would hate to be in position where you worked your ass of for a few months being away from family and stayed focus. Just to have it end quick. But hey it's the sport maybe Fedor shouldn't have got caught in the first place, but he did. I don't agree with your 8count.

 

[mindturking]

MMA fighters SHOULD ALL be given every chance to fight and give the fans their money's worth.

If they can continue they should be allowed.

If you are a fake wrestling fanboi you prob cant recognize a real ko.

That's what the promoters are counting on.

LMFAO Jesus Christ. Sure let a fighter who gets their head dribbled by 4oz gloves get more opportunities to have it dribbled after a standing 8. Shit it would have made the Ronda Rousey two loses far more interesting because if you don't want that you a wrassling fan boy.............. Seek help.

 

[-guerilla-]

The sport your looking for is Boxing, go back to it.

But on the real, sometimes in big fights (I.E) contender, interim, title, superfights. I would love to see it go a little longer until there is a definitive ending. Ko or submission. I would hate to be in position where you worked your ass of for a few months being away from family and stayed focus. Just to have it end quick. But hey it's the sport maybe Fedor shouldn't have got caught in the first place, but he did. I don't agree with your 8count.

Actually American boxing has yielded to the snowflake safety theory and largely ditched the standing 8 count.

They understand it's safer to just stop the fight if someone gets rocked.

I linked an article earlier in this thread where the new rule was justified by this statement "if someone is hurt enough to checked on they are hurt enough to be stopped or saved"

The real problem is that the fans keep buying these nerfed fights.

For every old fighter that likes to watch the sport they used to compete in there are 100 snowflake sissy fake wrestling fanboys with their moms creditcard who are so soft, timid and have clearly never competed that they think Fedor was unconscious when Bader was hitting him with those wack a mole hammerfists.

Or Brunson was gonna get hurt by adesanya...

Or TJ was gonna be brain damaged by cejudo

Or Robbie Lawler was gonna being choked out by askren

Or McGregor was gonna get hurt by maywether

No wonder Americans cant win in any combat sports NERF style MMA dosent cut it against international competition.

 

[eiyuu]

Pride had real MMA the USA has snowflake MMA

Except PRIDE had stoppages just like Bader vs Fedor

See Ken Shamrock vs Kazushi Sakuraba

Fedor vs Zuluzinho

etc

All fighters loose sooner or later

This thread is about the mechanics of the modern mma stoppage

Not fanboi hero worship

Except that it is fanboi hero worship because the impetus for this thread is your dislike of Fedor losing to Bader.

 

[eiyuu]

This Thread has nothing to do with Fador hero worship

it has to do with the mechanics of mixed martial arts stoppages.

there's no reason that your position in a fight dictates whether or not the fight could be halted in order to check on the status of a combatant they did it all the time in older shooto.

Today They do it in MMA to check on equipment and injuries like cuts.

Yes there is a HUGE reason for the position to not allow staning 8 counts.

If you ever saw the documentary CHOKE which tells the story of 3 fighters going into the Japan Vale Tudo 1995 tournament (with an emphasis on Rickson Gracie), there was a fighters meeting where some fighters took issue with JVT trying to institute a standing 8 count rule. Apollo Cook, trainer for fighter Todd Hayes, argued against the standing 8 count because if you had a fighter on the ground, were punching him and he looked rocked, would they then stand him up for a standing 8 count?

The JVT officials thought about it and said, no we wouldn't. So they threw out the standing 8 count rule.

Makes no sense to breakup the action in MMA standing or on the ground for standing 8 count.

Don't want to be put in a position where you'd need a standing 8 count to continue? Don't get rocked by strikes.

Simple

 

[kimocomplex]

dropped like a sack of potatoes, not intelligently defending himself

case closed

 

[-guerilla-]

Except PRIDE had stoppages just like Bader vs Fedor

See Ken Shamrock vs Kazushi Sakuraba

Fedor vs Zuluzinho

etc


Except that it is fanboi hero worship because the impetus for this thread is your dislike of Fedor losing to Bader.

Every promotion has bad stoppages it's impossible to be correct every time so you have to look at the overall aggregate that is the average of early stoppages and it is radically higher in modern American promotions than it was in original Pride...

Zuluzinho Tapped Out by the way so that cannot be counted however sakuraba Shamrock is a perfect example but shamrock was in classic "I quit mode" (turning away to protect your face is not intelligentdefense) whereas fedors hands NEVER came down vs Bader ... come up with about 35 more early pride stoppages and you'll have a case

I completely understand the fedor hero worshipper syndrome but if you look into my past posts you will find that I have been nothing but critical of fedors Style

Why aren't you guys accusing me of being in love with
Derek Brunson
Robbie Lawler
TJ Dillashaw or
Conor McGregor...

All of whom I cited as being victims of the early stoppage safe space phenomena

As I've said many many many times if you watch the Fedor vs Mir stoppage and compare and contrast it to the Fedor vs Bader stoppage

(the same promotion and ref)

you will see there was a major difference in the speed at which those two fights were stopped.

One blow produces a knock down...
Bader deliveries one more heavy blow and gets the fight stopped while Fedor has to hit Mir 6 more times (with full power hooks) before the same ref stops that fight.

It's a shame that we can have an objective discussion about early stoppages in MMA.

I have never referred to Fedor as the GOAT, or even complimented him once yet 98% of the response on this thread are accusing me of hero worship.

With this kind of fan base its no wonder modern mma can deliver a product like this and still make bank!

 

[-guerilla-]

dropped like a sack of potatoes, not intelligently defending himself

case closed

Lots of fighters get dropped
(it's called a flash knockdown)
And come back to win the fight.

 

[-guerilla-]

Yes there is a HUGE reason for the position to not allow staning 8 counts.

If you ever saw the documentary CHOKE which tells the story of 3 fighters going into the Japan Vale Tudo 1995 tournament (with an emphasis on Rickson Gracie), there was a fighters meeting where some fighters took issue with JVT trying to institute a standing 8 count rule. Apollo Cook, trainer for fighter Todd Hayes, argued against the standing 8 count because if you had a fighter on the ground, were punching him and he looked rocked, would they then stand him up for a standing 8 count?

The JVT officials thought about it and said, no we wouldn't. So they threw out the standing 8 count rule.

Makes no sense to breakup the action in MMA standing or on the ground for standing 8 count.

Don't want to be put in a position where you'd need a standing 8 count to continue? Don't get rocked by strikes.

Simple

IF A FIGHTER IS ROCKED YOU DON'T NEED TO "STAND HIM UP"

just halt the fight and ask the downed fighter if he wants to continue.

The MMA version of a "protection count" would NOT require the fighter to stand.

 

[eiyuu]

IF A FIGHTER IS ROCKED YOU DON'T NEED TO "STAND HIM UP"

just halt the fight and ask the downed fighter if he wants to continue.

The MMA version of a "protection count" would NOT require the fighter to stand.

Never a good idea to ask a fighter if he wants to continue. Most would want to continue even if he had an eye gouged out and an arm ripped off. Sometimes the ref, doc and/or the fighter's corner need to protect a fighter from himself.

See Enson Inoue vs Igor Vovchanchyn. Inoue couldn't even stand after the first round with Vovnchanchyn, but he was screaming that he wanted to continue.

 

[eiyuu]

Lots of fighters get dropped
(it's called a flash knockdown)
And come back to win the fight.

The difference here is that Kongo got rocked, but was still being active turning over trying to grab Barry and getting up.

Fedor got rocked, didn't look like he was trying to defend himself and ate another big shot with more shots on the ground.

 

[kimocomplex]

Lots of fighters get dropped
(it's called a flash knockdown)
And come back to win the fight.

please list more than 1 example