MMA has basically stopped evolving in the last 10 years

Woody869 said:
So Shields beat Woodley when he was champion???? Or maybe Woodley EVOLVED, and got better, and then became champion himself.
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My point was that if you wanna make the MMamath argument and say that the guy who beat the guy who beat GSP (even though he didn’t actually beat GSP, you just think the judges got it wrong) must then also be better than GSP then that argument has to cut both ways. So I can then point out that GSP beat guys who beat the guys who went on to be champion. If you then want to argue that these fights occured at different times under different contexts and that this doesn’t necessarily mean anything then that applies to your original argument also.

So your argument either eats itself or it becomes a wash. Either way, it’s a bad argument.
 
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People should understand that champions in the past probably looked better because the overall competition was weaker, back in the day. Also, people fought under worse circumstances, more injured because no insurance for it like they have now and generally worse pay too, less knowledge of how to train, lose weight and diet better/more safely. So if you were one that took prep nore professionally than the competition, like say GSP, then chances are higher that a guy like GSP would face someone who might not be at his best because of poor prep, than someone in the same situation these days. The difference in professionalism generally will make fights closer in current times, than in previous times.
 
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Fighting is not rocket science. The human species did not evolve in 10 years and the error and trail begginers era of the sport is long over.
 
WME/TKO has actively gatekept all the NCAA wrestlers and all grappling based fighters in the UFC. Only Khabib and crew remained because they signed to the UFC before WME takeover and Khabib became an unintended international star when he beat Conor.
 
In terms of a sport, the sport as a whole absolutely continues to evolve as a whole. There is still very much debate over which style is most effective in an MMA ring as we have champions in each weight division who fight very differently to each other.

What has been proven in this sport over a long time is that the very best can do one thing very well regardless of their background. The very best fighters have great takedown defence. Even elite fighters that are more known for their striking must have takedown defence in their arsenal or they simply don't reach the top of their sport.
I'd also add to that some sort of defensive wrestling ability. All fighters must have some form of ability to defend themselves once on the ground and an ability to get up. If a fighter has no wrestling ability at all, I don't think they can survive in the upper tiers of the sport.
 
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orca said:
lol so u mean fedor fighting cans took alot of damage and was out of his prime?
maybe drug testing ruined him in strikeforce?
have u considerd this?

prime fedor with drug testing is a b level fighter?
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yep Fedor was great in Pride and Rings. By the time he was in Strikeforce there was visible differences in his physique. Gone was the thick neck, big traps/delts and arms. His performance wasn't the same either. Versus Cro Cop in Pride he was a terminator, against Rogers he was gassed in the first round.
 
A man can still be beaten with one punch in a fight.

That is the standard.

Everything else is just gaming a system based on convoluted rules.
 
The old Greeks had everything figured out ;)
 
I think it's a matter of the baseline for fighters especially defensively on the low end of rankings, is more well rounded, I don't think the tops of divisions are that much more skilled. (Exceptions of course)

I mean when's the last time we had a fighter that could.throw out a perfect armbar, faster than a lot of Lightweights than Fedor, for example.

I also think peak Shogun (the one with working knees) would take down and beat up the top LHWs of today (Jamahal Hill and Alex)

I mean the fact Jamahal Hill is at the top of a division says a lot. He's got athleticism and hits hard but I wouldn't call him a masterful technician

Just because the great fighters of old lose to newer fighters, doesn't necessarily mean they lost because of a skill gap. Physical decline is usually the culprit.


More than anything, there are MORE fighters nowadays, some are great, some are definitely not.

With more people and more standardized training, everyone is going to be OK at everything, I think there are less specialists, (Alex for example again is one of those weird outliers)

I think there was a bigger skill jump from 1998-2003 than from 2003-2023

But hey, just my opinion.
 
Seahawks Fan said:
As the title says, I believe that MMA has basically stopped evolving in the last 10 years. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that fighters seem to have peaked about 10 or so years or go and have basically remained the same in terms of talent and ability.

The best evidence for this is that if you go back 10 years and look at the champions they are as good or better than the champions of today.

In 2013 the UFC had champions such as GSP, DJ, Jon Jones, Benson Henderson, Chris Weidman, Cain Velasquez etc.

The prime version of any of those fighters would be a champion in today's UFC or would be in serious contention. And if you go down the rankings the fighters from then are comparable to the fighters today.

My feeling is that we have pretty much hit the peak in terms of the evolution of fighters. The fighters we've seen in the last 10 years are pretty much as good as they'll ever be.
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fighters have evolved more in my opinion.
 
KAZSoliloquy said:
i’d pick most top 10 fighters to beat benoit. bad choice of fighter imo
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BSD smokes prime #1 contender Joe Stevenson & he isn't even top 10, that's the point. This is the case with many title challengers from 10-20 years ago but somehow MMA is worse than ever.

Some people can't escape nostalgia's grasp.
 
JoeRowe said:
BSD smokes prime #1 contender Joe Stevenson & he isn't even top 10, that's the point. This is the case with many title challengers from 10-20 years ago but somehow MMA is worse than ever.

Some people can't escape nostalgia's grasp.
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i really don’t think benoit smokes joe stevenson at all. that’s MY point. benoit is incredibly average. joe takes his neck at some point.
 
KAZSoliloquy said:
i really don’t think benoit smokes joe stevenson at all. that’s MY point. benoit is incredibly average. joe takes his neck at some point.
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Joe doesn't have the power to hurt him nor would he be able to outgrapple him. BSD has 5 inches & 10 lbs on him & is more skilled everywhere.

Sorry to break it to you man, time to move on from the past.
 
FreddieRoachsVoice said:
People will argue this because they are so brainwashed by the UFC hype machine that tells them "current fighter is the best ever" but this is essentially correct. The "sport has evolved" cliche is such a lazy and baseless comment; people are just regurgitating old commentary from the mid 2000s when announcers were comparing fighters from the 90s like Gary Goodridge and Mark Coleman to the well-rounded multi-faceted fighters of the day.

The sport is no longer "improving in leaps and bounds" and in fact, we're seeing more one dimensional fighters in the top 10 than we EVER did in the late 2000s/2010s. The pay for MMA is so poor that if you were a college wrestler from the USA with a degree, why the hell would you risk long term health effects (and significant medical bills) when you can probably make more money with stability/growth opportunities working a normal job? lol Training camps/supplements/dieticians aren't free you know and now you can't even get your own sponsors? Seriously, what is the incentive to be a fighter when even the tippy top guys are paid a fraction of what other pro athletes are? There is a reason we've seen an influx of talent from more developing countries o_O

I think the evolution of the sport peaked when there was guys like Rory Macdonald, Mighty Mouse, etc who were literally training to be MMA fighters from day 1 and "specialists" transitioning over from 1 major combat sport into mma were less the norm for a good chunk of years. I genuinely challenge someone who believes the "sport has evolved" to actually explain in plain English what the hell that means in 2023? lol Has some new radical submission been invented? Are there unseen strikes being taught in a Shaolin temple yet to be unleashed on the world? <Lmaoo>

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. Go look at the MW top 10 and tell me the sport is at its peak right now like jesus, everyone besides Whittaker and Izzy would not even sniff the top 10 Prime vs Prime.

Same goes for the other divisions above BW like Brian Ortega has 1 win in nearly 6 full years and is still ranked #3 at FW right now because the division is so shallow LOL. And LHW, do you think Jan Blachowicz and Glover just magically got dramatically better in their late 30s or is it at all possible the level of competition just went completely off a cliff in the past 5 years? lol

People can believe whatever delusion they want but I'm with you TS... I genuinely laugh out loud every time I read "the sport has evolved" used in a serious manner. It's the equivalent to saying "the lord works in mysterious ways" in a religious argument like "oh you ran out of things to say, gotcha" <Lmaoo>
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Strickland vs Anderson would be fun.
Aspinall vs Prime Cain is fun as well.
Pereira vs Machida/Shogun would be great
Edwards vs GSP is a good fight too
Islam vs Benson I got Islam
Volk vs Prime Aldo is so nice....

Maybe TS right
 
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