MMA has basically stopped evolving in the last 10 years

That's a lot of angry to posting to miss my point, lol.

If you want to argue it, answer something for me first: Is it easier to knock someone out with an overhand right or check hook while they come in or is it easier to get a takedown, work for control and then sink in a fight finishing submission?

First off it may be easier to hit someone but don't think for one second that its easy to score KO's or TKO's and to answer your question I think it would be slightly harder to take someone down and GnP them then to KO someone with an overhand right,
by taking someone down you have now avoided taking damage on the feet or potentially getting rocked and finished.
 
First off it may be easier to hit someone but don't think for one second that its easy to score KO's or TKO's and to answer your question I think it would be slightly harder to take someone down and GnP them then to KO someone with an overhand right,
by taking someone down you have now avoided taking damage on the feet or potentially getting rocked and finished.
Why sidestep my question? I didn't ask if GnP was harder than KO'ing someone.

I asked "Is it easier to knock someone out with an overhand right or check hook while they come in or is it easier to get a takedown, work for control and then sink in a fight finishing submission?"

That's about a standing KO via strike vs. a submission. But your non-answer is essentially the same as an agreement.

So, if I'm a fighter, easiest path to victory is a standing strike. A technique that can be executed at range. Whereas a takedown requires me to first enter striking range and then progress to clinch range. Any smart fighter is going to try and finish the fight at the first range, striking, as they progress to the second range, clinching. And any smart fighter knows that the first chance to finish the fight is when their opponent enters striking range. If they can end the fight there, the opponent never gets to clinch range.

So, once fighters learned enough takedown defense and grappling to stop worrying about being in clinch range, they could shift their focus to the earliest and easiest way to finish the fight -- when the opponent enters striking range.
 
This is a bad take and one you really can't quantify because we don't have a "what if" machine. The average fighter is far and away more skilled and well rounded today than ten years ago, with better game plans to boot. The guys you listed, specifically GSP, were largely ahead of thee time with their skills and made short work of many opponents. That wouldn't fly today for all the reasons others have already pointed out.
 
My take is that with so many shows, you will sometimes see guys that might not be fully prepared for the UFC on shows. The other factor is that once fighters get established and developed, there tends to be a certain level of parity. So even if you were a national champ wrestler or a mundial BJJ champ, your opponent has probably game planned well enough to still make it difficult for you to impose your will. So MMA has certainly evolved and will continue to it's just going to be more of a subtle thing where the level of all fighters goes up.
 
As the title says, I believe that MMA has basically stopped evolving in the last 10 years. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that fighters seem to have peaked about 10 or so years or go and have basically remained the same in terms of talent and ability.

The best evidence for this is that if you go back 10 years and look at the champions they are as good or better than the champions of today.

In 2013 the UFC had champions such as GSP, DJ, Jon Jones, Benson Henderson, Chris Weidman, Cain Velasquez etc.

The prime version of any of those fighters would be a champion in today's UFC or would be in serious contention. And if you go down the rankings the fighters from then are comparable to the fighters today.

My feeling is that we have pretty much hit the peak in terms of the evolution of fighters. The fighters we've seen in the last 10 years are pretty much as good as they'll ever be.
I mean every sport stops evolving at some point.

Boxing stopped evolving long time ago or do you see any striking breakthroughs lately in that sport?
 
As the title says, I believe that MMA has basically stopped evolving in the last 10 years. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that fighters seem to have peaked about 10 or so years or go and have basically remained the same in terms of talent and ability.

The best evidence for this is that if you go back 10 years and look at the champions they are as good or better than the champions of today.

In 2013 the UFC had champions such as GSP, DJ, Jon Jones, Benson Henderson, Chris Weidman, Cain Velasquez etc.

The prime version of any of those fighters would be a champion in today's UFC or would be in serious contention. And if you go down the rankings the fighters from then are comparable to the fighters today.

My feeling is that we have pretty much hit the peak in terms of the evolution of fighters. The fighters we've seen in the last 10 years are pretty much as good as they'll ever be.
I disagree, the skill set is better, fighters look way more interesting nowadays,. Its what makes it hard to say who was the best ever, like Liddell...I have to think what time he rose. But today, they are smarter, but more importantly, the judges have become smarter to make the right decisions...

Although I see the argument, I would like a fight till winner, like a fight..no time..just a fight till one wins or quits...I would be cool with that..could produce boring fights but I find that more interesting. It would be a real fight...I would also like a big flat surface with no cage...if they go out of area reset in the center ....don't like how the cage is used...again a real fight, a street fight...I think UFC rules in striking benefit their health so would keep that.
 
It would too exausting to list all the ways in which you are wrong OP. I'll list 3.

Hip feints (related to calf kicks).
Lvl of Submission defence across the board.
Importance of hand fighting.

A about a thousand more things other informed posters can point out.
 
Why sidestep my question? I didn't ask if GnP was harder than KO'ing someone.

I asked "Is it easier to knock someone out with an overhand right or check hook while they come in or is it easier to get a takedown, work for control and then sink in a fight finishing submission?"

That's about a standing KO via strike vs. a submission. But your non-answer is essentially the same as an agreement.

So, if I'm a fighter, easiest path to victory is a standing strike. A technique that can be executed at range. Whereas a takedown requires me to first enter striking range and then progress to clinch range. Any smart fighter is going to try and finish the fight at the first range, striking, as they progress to the second range, clinching. And any smart fighter knows that the first chance to finish the fight is when their opponent enters striking range. If they can end the fight there, the opponent never gets to clinch range.

So, once fighters learned enough takedown defense and grappling to stop worrying about being in clinch range, they could shift their focus to the earliest and easiest way to finish the fight -- when the opponent enters striking range.

I would say its very hard to KO someone with an overhand right and more easier to get a td, its pretty simple what one is higher percentage a KO from an overhand right or a single leg I'd say you're gonna hit a single leg more times than KO someone with an overhand of any kind.
 
Regarding the original post. It's hard to tell (at least to these eyes). Some folks today can do amazing stuff, and when I look at older clips many of them could do amazing stuff a while back. Having not been a coach or fighter I guess it's difficult for me to ascertain. It's an intriguing question though and it got some folks riled up so that's cool lol. I'll say that one of the things I enjoy most about watching mma is seeing how a particular fighter may or may not evolve. Some fighters get dramatically better and some don't.

Cheers.
 
The last sort of evolution or new thing I could remember was the calf kick. Other than that yeah I don't disagree, and I think the champs of 2013 would be champs in 2023. Maybe not the exact versions of them from 10 years ago but they're all great fighters and would have evolved and kept ahead, particularly GSP.
 
Regarding the original post. It's hard to tell (at least to these eyes). Some folks today can do amazing stuff, and when I look at older clips many of them could do amazing stuff a while back. Having not been a coach or fighter I guess it's difficult for me to ascertain. It's an intriguing question though and it got some folks riled up so that's cool lol. I'll say that one of the things I enjoy most about watching mma is seeing how a particular fighter may or may not evolve. Some fighters get dramatically better and some don't.

Cheers.

Probably the biggest evolution is skills have become more ubiquitous. What were amazing stuff that were the tools of a few select fighters are adopted far more across the board. Then, the big thing most people miss is the adaptations to take those skills away from fighters in a fight.

The old cliche is; everybody looks like a champ hitting the heavy bag. Which is to say, what great fighters do is limit the tools thier opposition can use in a fight, choke them of options and force them into areas of the fight that favour the great fighter or set traps in the same manner, exploit what the other guy thinks they are good at. The better a fighter the harder (in general) it is to take stuff away from them they lean on as core to thier style . As a sidenote, this is one of the main reasons a good jab (aside from set ups) or being able to hurt someone to make them respect you are so important. Two of the most important tools to take stuff away from the other guy. If you can't make a guy respect you he can throw with far more impunity. If you can't check someone at range they have so many more options.

The cycle is

Innovation, adoptation by the masses, adaptation, negation and exploitation of what was innovative and so on. As a combat sport matures the innovations become smaller and more tailored. Sometimes more discrete (a specific defence for a sub for example) or more generalized (changes to stances). Then, like fashion, a technique might fall out of usage for sometimes decades (I'm talking about boxing or MT precedents here) until it becomes unusual and innovative again. Or a new innovation may necessitate an old technique as a counter tactic.

I could list all sorts of specifics but this is the general pattern trainers and fighters (once again I'm far more familiar with MT and boxing for the purposes of training) work through.

Evolution never stops, it just becomes harder to discern from the outside unless it's something overt like calf kick adoption (which is a recycled technique in and of itself).
 
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I think the overall skill and athleticism level started solidifying around the late 00s and hasnt really changed much since. Like if you look at the talent pool differences between now and...


2013: Basically no difference
2003: Big difference (some very talented fighters here and there but as outliers in an overall much weaker pool)
1993: Might as well be a different sport
 
Probably the biggest evolution is skills have become more ubiquitous. What were amazing stuff that were the tools of a few select fighters are adopted far more across the board. Then, the big thing most people miss is the adaptations to take those skills away from fighters in a fight.

The old cliche is; everybody looks like a champ hitting the heavy bag. Which is to say, what great fighters do is limit the tools thier opposition can use in a fight, choke them of options and force them into areas of the fight that favour the great fighter or set traps in the same manner, exploit what the other guy thinks they are good at. The better a fighter the harder (in general) it is to take stuff away from them they lean on as core to thier style . As a sidenote, this is one of the main reasons a good jab (aside from set ups) or being able to hurt someone to make them respect you are so important. Two of the most important tools to take stuff away from the other guy. If you can't make a guy respect you he can throw with far more impunity. If you can't check someone at range they have so many more options.

The cycle is

Innovation, adoptation by the masses, adaptation, negation and exploitation of what was innovative and so on. As a combat sport matures the innovations become smaller and more tailored. Sometimes more discrete (a specific defence for a sub for example) or more generalized (changes to stances). Then, like fashion, a technique might fall out of usage for sometimes decades (I'm talking about boxing or MT precedents here) until it becomes unusual and innovative again. Or a new innovation may necessitate an old technique as a counter tactic.

I could list all sorts of specifics but this is the general pattern trainers and fighters (once again I'm far more familiar with MT and boxing for the purposes of training) work through.

Evolution never stops, it just becomes harder to discern from the outside unless it's something overt like calf kick adoption (which is a recycled technique in and of itself).
Great post. Thanks. Happy thanksgiving to you and to everyone here who enjoys discussing mma evolution of techniques!
 
Great post. Thanks. Happy thanksgiving to you and to everyone here who enjoys discussing mma evolution of techniques!

Happy Thanksgiving to you too. All the best you, your friends and your family.

The same to anyone who reads this.

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