MMA/BJJ Strength: My Program Idea vs Cosgrove's?

[Gary Peters]

I never said you should max out every week. The only people who do that are complete noobs.

Secondly, you don't know what you are talking about. The principles of strength training don't change because you like to punch people in the mouth. You have to produce enough stress on your body to cause adaption - that is how you get stronger. It does not matter if you are playing football, basketball or training for a fight. This requires a proper periodization program.

Now that we have that established what is flawed with the one I posted?

 

[B3rserk3R]

Because usually strength is understood as producing force against a load, but when MMA is involved it has more to do with tapout shirts and other trendy shit.

Don't you know TapouT gear is like roids?! Currently I'm on a stack of 2 TO shirts and a hat, but soon I'm going to cut back to just a TO wife beater and some wrist bands.

 

[enright3060]

Now that we have that established what is flawed with the one I posted?

For what you have posted, it is pretty clear that you don't have a good idea of how strength training and peridization works. If you think that the basic principle of strength (the ability to exert force on a load) is context dependent, then you are a bit confused.

Secondly, you have yet to give us any information that would allow anyone to help you. Before we can offer suggestions we need to know about your training history and other shit that is relevant to it. As I said in this post:

What are you currently doing for strength training? How long? What is the rep scheme? What sort of conditioning work and skill training are you doing? How much do you eat? How much can you eat? What are you eating? Are you sleeping 8 hours or more?

All of these things could be contributing to a plateau

 

[WAREAGLE]

Why is lifting for MMA different than lifting for general strength?

To beginners it's not. But after a while you need to train for things that you are likely to see in MMA, I have found that Sandbag exercises along with some K-bell exercises, and a few strongman exercises have given me a much better carryover onto the mats.

The mindset is also different, I don't care about my numbers, just how I can apply my strength against an opponent.

Also, after general strength is developed, muscular endurance should be attacked with the same fervor as GS.

And it sounds tougher if you say for MMA:icon_chee

 

[Gary Peters]

What are you currently doing for strength training? How long? What is the rep scheme? What sort of conditioning work and skill training are you doing? How much do you eat? How much can you eat? What are you eating? Are you sleeping 8 hours or more?

All of these things could be contributing to a plateau

 

[arctic82]

Simple thoughts considering strength training:

Dont seek endurance from the weight room. The weights are there to add resistance and for you to try and over come it. Endurance is best gained from the mat or from the ring.

Increasing strength will increase endurance not the opposite.

Use a 2 day split. For example
powercleans, deads and dips / spilt jerk, squats and pullups.
Allways do the explosive lifts first, use low reps (under 5) and higher volume (more than 5). Concetrate on explosive lift and great form.

To gain strength (ie on squats and deads) move as much weight as you can for 3-5 reps with good form, really try to produce as much force as you can even if the lift would still seem slow. No yanking. Take nice long breaks and do it again. Try to do more sets with more weight over time. Progress, it doesn't happen by it's self.
(ie. start to work 3x3 to 5x3 and then start to work 3x5 to 5x5 over time and start over again with more weight)

It is a good idea to NOT use the same pattern simultaniously on squats and deads. If you do 3x3 for deads, do 5x5 for squats and vice versa.

For the last lifts of the day you can use similar set up as for squats and deads but you can also do more reps. 6-8 are fine.

If you want your explosiveness and strength to go up avoid lactic acid like a plague, dont burn yourself out at the gym, it is counter productive to your MA training if youre sore and wipe'd out.

A well done strenght training session should not make you feel like you just ran a marathon, and after intial DOMS it should not even do that, unless your maxing out on something.

There you have some basic principals that should help you. The point is that endurance and speed are best developed sport specifically by training the sport, additional and general strenght and power can be found under the squat rack.

Edit: rep scheme.

 

[Gary Peters]

Simple thoughts considering strength training:

Dont seek endurance from the weight room. The weights are there to add resistance and for you to try and over come it. Endurance is best gained from the mat or from the ring.

Increasing strength will increase endurance not the opposite.

Use a 2 day split. For example
powercleans, deads and dips / spilt jerk, squats and pullups.
Allways do the explosive lifts first, use low reps (under 5) and higher volume (more than 5). Concetrate on explosive lift and great form.

To gain strength (ie on squats and deads) move as much weight as you can for 3-5 reps with good form, really try to produce as much force as you can even if the lift would still seem slow. No yanking. Take nice long breaks and do it again. Try to do more sets with more weight over time. Progress, it doesn't happen by it's self.
(ie. start to work 3x3 to3x5 and then start to work 3x5 to 5x5 over time and start over again with more weight)

It is a good idea to NOT use the same pattern simultaniously on squats and deads. If you do 3x3 for deads, do 5x5 for squats and vice versa.

For the last lifts of the day you can use similar set up as for squats and deads but you can also do more reps. 6-8 are fine.

If you want your explosiveness and strength to go up avoid lactic acid like a plague, dont burn yourself out at the gym, it is counter productive to your MA training if youre sore and wipe'd out.

A well done strenght training session should not make you feel like you just ran a marathon, and after intial DOMS it should not even do that, unless your maxing out on something.

There you have some basic principals that should help you. The point is that endurance and speed are best developed sport specifically by training the sport, additional and general strenght and power can be found under the squat rack.

Thank you very much. I think my biggest problem is that ive been trying to go too heavy every workout instead of switching 5x5 with 3x3 etc.. Can more people please add on this?

 

[enright3060]

Approx 10 Months with the routine listed below. Including BJJ/MMA Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. 6'0 190 lean body type. I eat approx 3500-4k cals per day of greens, lean proteins, whey protein, veggies, nuts and fruits. Supplements include fish oil, creatine, greens multi and Beta-Alanine. Looking to increase maximal strength, explosiveness and endurance.


Tues
Power Clean
Deadlift
OHP
Chins

Sat
Squat
Bench
Rows

How long have you been weight training and what are you best lifts for a few? Here are a few suggestions:

1) If you have been lifting for a while, I would not try to power-clean and deadlift in the same day. Given all of your conditioning work, I would deadlift once a month and work on power-cleans or another oly lift for the other three weeks.

2) I would also start to change up the exercise a bit. For OHP - switch between doing a barbell OHP and dumbbells. I would also mix in push pressing. For squats mix in - box squats, free squats, front squats, high bar squats, low bar squats, etc. I would switch between the different variants every 3-4 weeks. If you do front squats for three weeks, then do box squat. When you do front squats again, try increase your front squat numbers from last time.

3) I would vary the intensity of your lifts and rep scheme for the movements you do 2x a week. I would do one heavy pushing day with a 5x5 or 3x5 rep scheme (bench for example) and then do higher rep db OHP, such as 4 sets of 8 reps. (you would do 1 ME day and one RE day).

4) Add weight to your chins.

5) Don

 

[Vedic]

Well rep ranges etc are different for everyone. Just like no one program works for everyone. I did a program for Barut long ago, he did awesome with it. Point being is,you have to have goals and mindsets placed,come up with a plan, and bounce ideas off of people once you got it. I am all about lifting etc,and I find it to be a great avenue for fitness. But never forget that nothing prepares you better for a event than the event itself.

 

[takeahnase]

To claim that periodization, exercise selection, workout frequency, volume, intensity etc. do not depend on the sport performed by the athlete in question is pretty retarded. It may be a waste of time to think about these things for beginning athletes whose main interest lies in getting stronger, but at some point the sport does matter. I don't think an MMA fighter should perform the same kind of strength training as a golf player, just like a tennis player will have a conditioning regime that is different from that of a wrestler.

 

[Gary Peters]

How long have you been weight training and what are you best lifts for a few? Here are a few suggestions:

1) If you have been lifting for a while, I would not try to power-clean and deadlift in the same day. Given all of your conditioning work, I would deadlift once a month and work on power-cleans or another oly lift for the other three weeks.

2) I would also start to change up the exercise a bit. For OHP - switch between doing a barbell OHP and dumbbells. I would also mix in push pressing. For squats mix in - box squats, free squats, front squats, high bar squats, low bar squats, etc. I would switch between the different variants every 3-4 weeks. If you do front squats for three weeks, then do box squat. When you do front squats again, try increase your front squat numbers from last time.

3) I would vary the intensity of your lifts and rep scheme for the movements you do 2x a week. I would do one heavy pushing day with a 5x5 or 3x5 rep scheme (bench for example) and then do higher rep db OHP, such as 4 sets of 8 reps. (you would do 1 ME day and one RE day).

4) Add weight to your chins.

5) Don

 

[enright3060]

My chins are probably my best lift since I can do BW+90x3 full extension/pause. I've been adding 5-10 lbs per week for awhile now. Deadlift im around the 405 mark for 1 rep max. My bench is probably my weakest which is about a 205 max.

You mentioned above that I should do 1 ME day and 1 RE day. They are going to be full body days correct? So for example: (Deadlift 1x per month, following month switch Cleans with Snatch... Box squats for Squats, etc.)

Week 1

Power Cleans 5x3
OHP 4x8
Chins 4x8

Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Rows 5x5

Week 2

Power Cleans 7x2
OHP 4x4
Chins 4x4

Squat 4x8
Bench 4x8
Rows 4x8

etc.

Or would you switch up the rep/set schemes another way? How often if at all would you go for a 1 rep max? Once a month? Once every 2 months?

I would keep the ME/RE to your pushing movements because you are doing both a bench and OHP every week. I would experiment with various rep ranges for the other exercises - 3, 4, 5 and even 8. I think what is most important is that you try to increase your numbers for 3, 4, 5 or 8 rep max. I would switch it up. For example:

Squat:

Week 1: 5 rep max (with good form)
Week 2: 3 rep max
Week 3: 5 rep max (try to beat the 5 rep max from week 1)
Week 4: Sets at 8 reps (these will be hard but not an all out max)
Week 5: 3 rep max (beat the 3 rep max from last time).

What is important is that you either (1) increase the weight or (2) increase the number of sets for your working sets.

Your going to have to figure out the best system that helps increase your lifts. This will require a bit of trial and error. If you numbers are increasing, then you know it is working. Once you figure out what works for you, then you can try to tinker with things a bit more.

As for maxing out, it all depends on how much maxing out will interfere with your grappling and MMA. I think you can do it every 2-3 months. If you

 

[Gary Peters]

I would keep the ME/RE to your pushing movements because you are doing both a bench and OHP every week. I would experiment with various rep ranges for the other exercises - 3, 4, 5 and even 8. I think what is most important is that you try to increase your numbers for 3, 4, 5 or 8 rep max. I would switch it up. For example:

Squat:

Week 1: 5 rep max (with good form)
Week 2: 3 rep max
Week 3: 5 rep max (try to beat the 5 rep max from week 1)
Week 4: Sets at 8 reps (these will be hard but not an all out max)
Week 5: 3 rep max (beat the 3 rep max from last time).

What is important is that you either (1) increase the weight or (2) increase the number of sets for your working sets.

Your going to have to figure out the best system that helps increase your lifts. This will require a bit of trial and error. If you numbers are increasing, then you know it is working. Once you figure out what works for you, then you can try to tinker with things a bit more.

As for maxing out, it all depends on how much maxing out will interfere with your grappling and MMA. I think you can do it every 2-3 months. If you

 

[enright3060]

That makes sense to me, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. Much appriciated.

No problem - start a log here. It will help you a lot.

 

[brian80]

In addition to everything that has been discussed here, I also highly reccomend having a good post-workout shake. I have always had great results from this, as it allows me to spar or roll that much harder, even after a strength workout.

 

[Ascendant]

Just make sure you're using different variation of weight-off-the-floor exercises. Not just deadlifts and power cleans, but full cleans, deficit deads, rack deads, snatches, maybe even throw in some stone loading and tire flipping, if you have access to them. The stone loading especially. Nothing builds real man strength like it.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

ok let's break this down, I'm not in the mood today seeing so many blanket statements

first: cosgrove's program has worked for many of my clients since when I was an apprentice at the gym I work with, I toyed with a lot of his programs.

now, if you're looking for a good program to improve your MMA game,here's what you should look for

it increases your work capacity
it also helps your speed/power
it focuses on the basic compound movements ( leg presses, or any machine doesn't count.)

now, my suggestion would be simple

1: you can try using EDT since I have seen people literally get way stronger in MMA just doing this

2. timed total tonnage by keith Wasung. this program doesn't look impresive to guys who haven't been in the game long, but heck, this gets the job done day in and day out

35x5/WSb hybrid. I still have to personally try this but the theory looks good and makes a lot of sense.

hope this helps. If anything is stil unclear, please let us know

 

[EZA]

There is a lot of confusion in this post about basic principles of strength and conditioning. I'd like to recommend two books to anyone who is interested in learning more about the fundamentals of strength development, periodization, and training in general.

"Special Strength Training: A Practical Manual for Coaches" by Verkhoshansky. If you're not familar with him, Prof. Verkhoshansky literally developed the concept of plyometrics and is one of the most influential sports scientists of our time. His latest book gives the most easily understood insight into his methods. He's even got a forum these days to answer questions and share insight at Verkhoshansky Site

"Science and Practice of Strength Training" by Zatsiorsky. The head of the former Soviet Union's biomechanics department, Prof. Zatsiorsky's book gives a great overview of fundamental training principles including how to organize training and basics of programming and periodization.

You can't go wrong with these two books and you'll learn ten times more than you'll ever find on T-mag or any website. If you're interested in understanding more of the science behind training I highly recommend "Adaptation in Sports Training" by Atko Viru it is one of the best books ever written on the subject.

They should all be easily available online.

Hope this helps.

 

[TSLx89]

1: you can try using EDT since I have seen people literally get way stronger in MMA just doing this

I'm sorry but can someone clear up what EDT is?

 

[TSLx89]

EDIT:Crap Double Post. Sorry.