Social Michigan school district removes LGBT references in sex ed

[Islam Imamate]

I shared my direct experience with a TON of people I have interacted with from that community. Just as I criticize the country I love when it is wrong even though I love it, and just as I take a really hard and cutting look at myself often too.

My lifestyle puts me in contact with the intimate details of many people, a lot of people. I have heard real pain from many gay men who are trying to live a decent life and cannot find that in the gay community-- or really have not found it yet due to sexual addiction and other related problems. I do not believe this is a small minority.

There are also statistics that show that when gay men claim to be monogamous it actually often means that they only rarely step outside their main relationship for sex. That it is not monogamy at all.

I wonder if this has to do with it all being men--- who want to have sex with anything that moves and since its other men they want there is no "no". No limits.

I never said this defines the whole community either-- not even in this thread. In fact I readily agreed with a poster who pointed out that not all are like this-- although many are. I did this while pointing out that those stable decent men and women might not want to let the degenerate define the movement like it does in gay pride parades.


You think I am someone I am not just because I don't hold the exact views as you do. This is the most interesting interaction of all of my time on Sherdog because of that.

Increasingly I find myself agreeing with something that is not far from this perspective. The LGBT community has a hypersexualized and hedonistic culture that I don't think is necessarily conducive to a healthy, sustainable life.

Of course that doesn't mean that they should be persecuted, in fact I see the persecution of queers as the primary driver of the creation of LGBT as an identity marker and as a distinct community. I think that wasn't necessarily good but it wasn't the queer community that started it, was the intolerance of heteronormative society.

You mean like hanging, stoning and castrating us? We're humans and the right to sexuality is a human one. It's been a thing people do since (before) the beginning of recorded history and there's so many examples that have been given ITT alone of historical figures who lived as long as 2,300+ years ago. I think perhaps some LGB people could utilize a little restraint and seek out more meaningful relationships.

No not hanging or stoning or castration, just not necessarily celebration either. For some on the left anything less than celebration is pure bigotry that must be stamped out.

 

[NoDak]

Increasingly I find myself agreeing with something that is not far from this perspective. The LGBT community has a hypersexualized and hedonistic culture that I don't think is necessarily conducive to a healthy, sustainable life.

Of course that doesn't mean that they should be persecuted, in fact I see the persecution of queers as the primary driver of the creation of LGBT as an identity marker and as a distinct community. I think that wasn't necessarily good but it wasn't the queer community that started it, was the intolerance of heteronormative society.

At least you can admit as much. It was entirely the state and society at large who politicized, criminalized and repressed sexual minorities for literally centuries that made it matter and essentially did everything possible to create strong identification factors out of it.

I usually bring up notable historical figures merely as a form of pushing back on the "cultural erosion by way of existence" narrative, but I've determined it's bigger than that considering the efforts made over the years to surpress information about various people as well as how it directly impacted a lot of said figures lives. Lol @ "not around to defend themselves" - from what?!

Just some examples would be Da Vinci facing sodomy charges as a young man (twice), Francis Bacon being censured by parliament in part because of an open secret, Alan Turing literally being (chemically) castrated and driven to suicide over it. Imagine life for the average bastard who wasn't extraordinarily gifted. Flicks like "Rebel Without A Cause" were a masterclass in LGB coding (and of repression). Of course, the damn director, lead actor and young male co-star were all bisexuals.

So no, like hell it doesn't or didn't matter.

No not hanging or stoning or castration, just not necessarily celebration either. For some on the left anything less than celebration is pure bigotry that must be stamped out.

That's the mainstream flamer community and as you know my particular "tribe" keeps our overt sexual identities and activity incredibly concealed from public view for the most part, we aren't the people at pride parades. That said, is it healthy? I'm 31 and I've been sexually active for 19 years, I'll go ahead say no given the experiences, things I've done and seen.

I would say the whole celebration aspect is pretty damn recent though. It wasn't that long ago liberal Hollywood went out of its way to insist things like Patroclus being Achilles "cousin" in a flick based on Ancient Greece so as not to offend your (hetero majority) sensibilities, or Oliver Stone having to cut a bunch of honestly innocuous stuff out of his -bad- Alexander flick.

 

[Islam Imamate]

At least you can admit as much. It was entirely the state and society at large who politicized, criminalized and repressed sexual minorities for literally centuries that made it matter and essentially did everything possible to create strong identification factors out of it.

I usually bring up notable historical figures merely as a form of pushing back on the "cultural erosion by way of existence" narrative, but I've determined it's bigger than that considering the efforts made over the years to surpress information about various people as well as how it directly impacted a lot of said figures lives. Lol @ "not around to defend themselves" - from what?!

Just some examples would be Da Vinci facing sodomy charges as a young man (twice), Francis Bacon being censured by parliament in part because of an open secret, Alan Turing literally being (chemically) castrated and driven to suicide over it. Imagine life for the average bastard who wasn't extraordinarily gifted. Flicks like "Rebel Without A Cause" were a masterclass in LGB coding (and of repression). Of course, the damn director, lead actor and young male co-star were all bisexuals.

So no, like hell it doesn't or didn't matter.

A distinction I'd like to make here is that I think the persecution of gays became far worse with the advent of the modern state and its willingness and ability to regulate and penetrate(pun intended) the everyday lives of its citizens. So while there were religious and moral sentiments against non-conforming folks before the actual power of the state to do something about it was rather limited. In practice I think the average LGBT person living in the premodern world was far more free to act on their proclivities than someone like Alan Turing.

To be fair premodern societies also had sophisticated honor cultures and a system of grassroots surveillance that is hard to find in the modern, developed world today which no doubt was also used to persecute non-conforming folks. But more often than not I think you'd find that in practice the premodern societies had negotiated and contested certain semi-private and private spaces and norms for regulating non-conforming sexual activity and proclivities.

For instance because the Sufi tradition in Islam emphasizes the importance of platonic love between same sex friends in understanding the love of God there emerged bonds of so called sisterhood and brotherhood between married adults. For sisters the relationship had surprising parallels to marriage, with an elaborate proposal, courtship period, and even a honeymoon. There is good reason to believe that a non-negligible amount of these relationships did not remain strictly platonic and in fact homsoexual relations in the harem have been stuff of legend and rumor for thousands of years.

In other words, while the hegemonic moral system may have explicitly condemned homosexual relations, in practice there was a rough, implicit tolerance for such non-conforming behavior so long as it remained more or less private and so long as the hegemonic moral standard was not questioned. The implicit pact was "do not have same sex relations but if you are going to don't get caught and pretend that your relationship is platonic"

That's the mainstream flamer community and as you know my particular "tribe" keeps our overt sexual identities and activity incredibly concealed from public view for the most part, we aren't the people at pride parades. That said, is it healthy? I'm 31 and I've been sexually active for 19 years, I'll go ahead say no given the experiences, things I've done and seen.

I would say the whole celebration aspect is pretty damn recent though. It wasn't that long ago liberal Hollywood went out of its way to insist things like Patroclus being Achilles "cousin" in a flick based on Ancient Greece so as not to offend your (hetero majority) sensibilities, or Oliver Stone having to cut a bunch of honestly innocuous stuff out of his -bad- Alexander flick.

As homophobic as it sounds that is my ideal for the queer community; a society wide implicit understanding that they exist and engage in haram sex but that so long as they do not publicly endorse such actions and keep it to themselves they should be implicitly tolerated and have the full protection and rights afforded to anyone else. In other words, it should be treated like fetishes are today. People may find foot fetishists weird and they themselves have some shame and keep it private but no one really cares that there are guys who like to suck feet out there. Should be the same for men who want to buttfuck each other IMO.

 

[franklinstower]

Increasingly I find myself agreeing with something that is not far from this perspective. The LGBT community has a hypersexualized and hedonistic culture that I don't think is necessarily conducive to a healthy, sustainable life.

Of course that doesn't mean that they should be persecuted, in fact I see the persecution of queers as the primary driver of the creation of LGBT as an identity marker and as a distinct community. I think that wasn't necessarily good but it wasn't the queer community that started it, was the intolerance of heteronormative society.

No not hanging or stoning or castration, just not necessarily celebration either. For some on the left anything less than celebration is pure bigotry that must be stamped out.

I am totally with you on the cause of the identity being on the persecutors. Every time I hear Christians lamenting about the LGBTQ community all I tell them is if they were not a bunch of judgmental assholes they would not be in this position. If we had loved instead of judged there would not be so much push back.

 

[NoDak]

As homophobic as it sounds that is my ideal for the queer community; a society wide implicit understanding that they exist and engage in haram sex but that so long as they do not publicly endorse such actions and keep it to themselves they should be implicitly tolerated and have the full protection and rights afforded to anyone else. In other words, it should be treated like fetishes are today. People may find foot fetishists weird and they themselves have some shame and keep it private but no one really cares that there are guys who like to suck feet out there. Should be the same for men who want to buttfuck each other IMO.

Yeah, it kind of is but you know I don't take offense and feel a great deal of embarrassment over being grouped with insufferable prancing s (yea, I know). That was actually part of the motivation to start talking so openly about it on here aside from the daily threads, because that sort of feminist cultivated identity is the mainstream public image and it's just completely laughable horseshit.

On the contrary though, I'd probably rather have the 85%+ (of bisexual men that keep it almost completely concealed) flip that absurd narrative and image on its head. Most of us are just content to blend in with the hetero majority and many don't feel it's worth the potential stigmatization and ostracization. We are becoming a lot more interconnected though, I fairly strongly identify with the B but not so much "LGTQ+" on the whole - they're subcultures, within subcultures put under one umbrella.

 

[NoDak]

I am totally with you on the cause of the identity being on the persecutors. Every time I hear Christians lamenting about the LGBTQ community all I tell them is if they were not a bunch of judgmental assholes they would not be in this position. If we had loved instead of judged there would not be so much push back.

Ironically enough, where do the most honest, reasonable and productive discussions on this subject in the WR actually arise? From the likes of you, Kafir, InternetHero, DevoutPessimist and my dude @salamander; all fairly religious and socially conservative.

 

[NoDak]

@NoDak Fantastic post. You should visit the WR more and fight the good fight.

Heh.

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

it is probably too far the other way. i hate that we have to kiss the ass of the lgbqt, or whatever, community, but we shouldnt act like they dont exist. especially when it comes to the bullying part. we need to teach the kids that it is not ok to pick on those freaks

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Schools should be a "don't ask, don't tell" environment. We do not need to be making a big deal about who someone is attracted to and parading it around. If only these young fools could be as serious about studying and learning as they were about obsessing over sexual identities and sexual orientation. The obsession with all of this sex nonsense is just another example of how education is going down the drain.

 

[NoDak]

We do not need to be making a big deal about who someone is attracted to

Exactly! So why did you for so fucking long?



Back to Jack I see, keep that avatar.

 

[Amerikuracana]

it is probably too far the other way. i hate that we have to kiss the ass of the lgbqt, or whatever, community, but we shouldnt act like they dont exist. especially when it comes to the bullying part. we need to teach the kids that it is not ok to pick on those freaks

They are being nice. As a health class, they would have to tell the TRUTH about the statistics that go along with the lifestyle. That would enrage brainwashed idiots, but would be the right thing to do.

 

[NoDak]

they exist and engage in haram sex

 

[SRN]

Heh.

Welcome back to the dark side

 

[NoDak]

Welcome back to the dark side

I'm here to impose radical sexual ideology.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Exactly! So why did you for so fucking long?



Back to Jack I see, keep that avatar.

I will have to go through my post history, but I don't recall making a big deal over homosexuality (Of course, I could be wrong and I am more than willing to admit I was wrong and apologize for being wrong). I have supported same-sex unions recognized by the government. My issue has always been with undesirable behaviour (mainly promiscuity) surrounding the LGBT+ movement and the radical leftist ideology mainly relating feminism, intersectionality and sex that seems to come with the more vocal and political individuals within the movement.

Jack Donovan is the man. My main criticism of Mr. Donovan is that sometimes his views about masculinity come off as more of a homoerotic fantasy than a reasonable critique of what it means to be man. His insights on violence and criticisms of consumer culture make him someone that everyone should at least read or listen to.

 

[SRN]

I will have to go through my post history, but I don't recall making a big deal over homosexuality (Of course, I could be wrong and I am more than willing to admit I was wrong and apologize for being wrong). I have supported same-sex unions recognized by the government. My issue has always been with undesirable behaviour (mainly promiscuity) surrounding the LGBT+ movement and the radical leftist ideology mainly relating feminism, intersectionality and sex that seems to come with the more vocal and political individuals within the movement.

Jack Donovan is the man. My main criticism of Mr. Donovan is that sometimes his views about masculinity come off as more of a homoerotic fantasy than a reasonable critique of what it means to be man. His insights on violence and criticisms of consumer culture make him someone that everyone should at least read or listen to.

I'm still learning about Donovan but he definetly sounds like a fetishist sometimes. And not really a good sign that he thought Richard I'm smart enough not call myself nazi but that's basically what I'm Spencer was someone he would like to be affiliated with.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Anti-bullying programs absolutely need to specify different ways that bullying occurs, that's called teaching. You don't just say, "Hey everyone, be nice to each other, Ok?" That's not an effective way to teach anything.

You have to explain the different forms that bullying takes (online, physical, teasing, etc). You have to explain some of the common reasons that people are ridiculed that they might be desensitized to and not notice (making fun of their weight, appearance, sexuality, race, etc). These things all have to be explained to kids man. They don't automatically just get all of this from being told to be nice.

All of this was taught to me when I was a kid. The idea that we would actually stop teaching kids any of this is just bizarre.

The "Goldern Rule" covers all of this in a much more simple and elegant manner.

"Treat others as you would like to be treated" conveys everything you were trying to convey in a much better way.

 

[NoDak]

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I'm still learning about Donovan but he definetly sounds like a fetishist sometimes. And not really a good sign that he thought Richard I'm smart enough not call myself nazi but that's basically what I'm Spencer was someone he would like to be affiliated with.

Jack Donovan was associating himself with guys like Spencer and Jared Taylor for some time, but seems to have moved on from that. He was never too into the racial stuff. He has always been mainly concerned about maleness and masculinity. I think Donovan's entire macho gimmick stems from his criticism and disgust of the overly-feminine, Barbara Streisand obsessed gay culture.

I have not yet read Donovan's book Androphilia: Rejecting the Gay Identity, Reclaiming Masculinity, but I suspect that what he writes in that book are the roots to everything he has done. From the book:

"Gay is a subculture, a slur, a set of gestures, a slang, a look, a posture, a parade, a rainbow flag, a film genre, a taste in music, a hairstyle, a marketing demographic, a bumper sticker, a political agenda and philosophical viewpoint. Gay is a pre-packaged, superficial persona--a lifestyle. It's a sexual identity that has almost nothing to do with sexuality. Androphilia is a rejection of the overloaded gay identity and a return to a discussion of homosexuality in terms of desire. Homosexual men have been paradoxically cast as the enemies of masculinity--slaves to the feminist pipe dream of a "gender-neutral"

 

[NoDak]

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Word.