Mel Gibson did armbar and triangle choke in Lethal weapon (1987) way before UFC 1 and Gracies

[mkt]

The first UFCs were marketing gimmicks for GJJ, would have been a stupid move to invite guys like Walid Ismail, Braga, Marco Ruas, and even a guy like TK. Royce almost got killed by Kimo who knew next to nothing about BJJ other than studying a few videos. He shows up to that fight within that retarded ponytail and he probably TKOs Royce and kills the Gracie hype train on the spot.

We had to wait for SakuGOAT to do that.

Yep. Oleg Taktarov was winning UFC-like tournaments in 1993 (same year as UFC 1) and I'd have put money on Ruas to beat Royce in UFC 1. But Rorian knew who not to inivite.

 

[acannxr]

To be fair, they did innovate a bit...

How?

 

[armbarforhire]

Rorion worked on Lethal Weapon 3. Gotta look up the credits. Also, Rorion specially mentions Lethal Weapon 3. If he did 1 and 2, he would have mentioned them.

Wich they have done about the first 1.

https://web.archive.org/web/20071122024735/http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleid=90

"A production assistant for the movie “Lethal Weapon” had seen one of my fights against a kickboxer. The script had a big fighting scene and the director needed a fight coordinator. The man who had seen me told the director: “Look, you’ve got to meet this guy. He’s the best.” So the director hired me to choreograph the fight and teach Mel Gibson and Gary Busey for “Lethal Weapon I.” A couple of years later I worked with Rene Russo on “Lethal Weapon 3.” I not only trained her, but also when it came time for the fight scene, they hired me as a stunt man."

 

[armbarforhire]

Olympic judo meets crossface, dominant ground positioning and GnP.

Yeah , I mean just because you knew hwat a armbar was you were not going to beat Ken or defend against Royce

 

[Dr. Rose]

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You’re welcome, casual lmao

Thank you. I was worried for a second that nobody was going to post this. Rorion's even on the wiki page for the film.

 

[Pierced7681]

This makes it even stranger that Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock didn't know for triangle and other basic BJJ stuff? Again, movie is from 1987!!?

Ken knew them for sure, ever seen him get armbarred or triangled? Severn didn’t really cross train other maybe some boxing to get into range for his takedowns.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Ken knew, but it was no different that any guy getting submitted in 2022, just because you know some moves you are not going to escape a high ranking BJJ black belt.

In the case of Ken coming from pancrase he probably tought he was the tournaments supreme grappler, had Royce presented himself as Judo and not BJJ maybe he probably would not been catch as off guard as he was. My guess is everyone tought Royce was a brazilian karate kid.

Ken did an interview awhile back (it might have been the podcast with Don and Dan, not rewatching three hours to verify thought)saying that he was not aware they could do a gi choke and that was what the confusion was at the end of the fight. Then again, Ken has some excuses on a lot of things.

 

[Deathbycalfkick]

Ken knew them for sure, ever seen him get armbarred or triangled? Severn didn’t really cross train other maybe some boxing to get into range for his takedowns.

Severns problem was that he didn't know how to punch properly on the ground or otherwise. Watching him just lay on top of Tank for 25 minutes to a decision was painful.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

How?

You think the BJJ they were practicing a few decades after Helio adopted Maeda's style was different from Japanese jujitsu? Obviously the focus on newaza was a different philosophy from judo. From what I understand the idea of using the bottom guard position preferentially was not prevalent in Japanese jujitsu. I thought that philosophy of grappling grew out of Brazil. Obviously I know that submissions from guard existed, but I did not think the heavy emphasis on guard playing was there. Certainly, I could be mistaken. I'm not an expert in late 1800s to early 1900s Japanese martial arts.

I do know that submissions grappling styles like collar-and-elbow and catch-as-catch-can were popular in Europe and the US in the 1800s, but from what I can tell they focused on takedowns and on being on top like judo does. This makes perfect sense from a self-defense perspective, btw, I'm not saying BJJ was better than these other styles. Throwing someone on their head is a very effective combat technique lol. I'm just saying that I thought they developed a somewhat unique style, even if the techniques weren't new. Obviously most of the techniques were not new because many of them have Japanese names and English names from catch wrestling.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

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You’re welcome, casual lmao

Yeah was going to say something similar, great post except for the “casual” bit

 

[Substance Abuse]

n00bs.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Ken knew them for sure, ever seen him get armbarred or triangled? Severn didn’t really cross train other maybe some boxing to get into range for his takedowns.

He did some sambo and judo (See link below). However, it was not unusual to enter those competitions without training in them heavily. That is why Ron Tripp (Judo) and Rickson Gracie (BJJ) had a sambo match. Tripp beat Gracie, btw. [edited out-should not wrote submitted]

 

[mkt]

Ken knew them for sure, ever seen him get armbarred or triangled? Severn didn’t really cross train other maybe some boxing to get into range for his takedowns.

At UFC 1, Ken knew leglocks, chokes and probably arm bars. He didn't know the intricacies of submissions from the guard or how to fight someone wearing (and using) a gi. Ken literally had 1 year of submission experience and fought 3 days before in Japan. The jet lag alone (especially going to a high altitude of Denver) put him at a disadvantage. But since it was more of a freak show thing than a serious sport at the time, only the Gracies were taking it seriously.

 

[mkt]

He did some sambo and judo (See link below). However, it was not unusual to enter those competitions without training in them heavily. That is why Ron Tripp (Judo) and Rickson Gracie (BJJ) had a sambo match. Tripp submitted Gracie, btw.

I was on the AOL NHB boards in the early days. Ron Tripp was also on there and confirmed that Severn didn't know anything about triangles in his fight with Royce. He began training JJ with Tripp afterwards.

 

[Dr. Rose]

I was on the AOL NHB boards in the early days. Ron Tripp was also on there and confirmed that Severn didn't know anything about triangles in his fight with Royce. He began training JJ with Tripp afterwards.

yeah, he definitely did not seem to know about the triangle. It looks like he moved straight into while trying to defend it.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I think he meant that most Americans did not know much about BJJ until UFC 1 came out.

He would still be wrong tho...

 

[Sweater of AV]

It's a widely known fact jiu-jitsu was developed soon after Mel Gibson demonstrated the armbar and triangle choke in 1987.

 

[Pierced7681]

At UFC 1, Ken knew leglocks, chokes and probably arm bars. He didn't know the intricacies of submissions from the guard or how to fight someone wearing (and using) a gi. Ken literally had 1 year of submission experience and fought 3 days before in Japan. The jet lag alone (especially going to a high altitude of Denver) put him at a disadvantage. But since it was more of a freak show thing than a serious sport at the time, only the Gracies were taking it seriously.

I guarantee Ken knew what a triangle choke was before ufc 1, he didn’t have much experience rolling with someone in a gi yeah, but he knew all the basic subs

 

[Goatenstein]

The Gracie family are nothing but conmen whose only intention with the UFC was to commercialize the martial art they stole from Judo and claimed as their own innovation.

If the Gracies had any balls they would have invited Wallid Ismael to UFC 1 and fucking Royce would be a footnote today.

 

[mkt]

I guarantee Ken knew what a triangle choke was before ufc 1, he didn’t have much experience rolling with someone in a gi yeah, but he knew all the basic subs

Triangles weren't well known back then. Show me an example of someone using one in Pancrase before UFC.