Mel Gibson did armbar and triangle choke in Lethal weapon (1987) way before UFC 1 and Gracies

acannxr said:
The Gracie family are nothing but conmen whose only intention with the UFC was to commercialize the martial art they stole from Judo and claimed as their own innovation.
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But why are so many of them better than most people?
 
fedja said:
I always hear about UFC 1 bringing BJJ to US (or at least to wider public), but i recently (re)watched Lethal weapon 1 and Mel Gibson was doing armbar and triangle in 1987.

If actors knew about BJJ in 1987, how come Kimo, Dan Severn and Shamrock were surprised and unprepared for this ,,new,, fight style? Did they not watch movies?

Could Mel Gibson be sensei to mma fighters before the chosen one (Steven Sigal)?



Triangle is at 3:30 if you don't want to watch all video.
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The fighters who took part in UFC 1 were not elite grappers. Severn and Shamrock were professional wrestlers with some grappling experience but they weren't as skilled as Royce. Kimo was just some dude with a Taekwondo belt.
 
Cooliox said:
Sakuraba taught the Gracie family a good lesson about this: taking Japanese Arts and putting 'Brazilian' in front of it might make you a special snowflake back in Brazil, and in some Western countries... but the Gracies got put in their place properly by Sakuraba, the Gracie Hunter.

Royce quit on the stool after getting taught a good 1-hour lesson on why plagiarism is bad mmkay :D
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and that was the end of bjj in high level mma.........
 
GordonMMARamsey said:
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No. Mel pussied out. If that was Danny Glover now......

He would have taken several handfuls of mud and put it in dude's mouth THEN squeezed so dude had to swallow that shit. But he would be unable to swallow. So what would Danny do? I asked the same question.

He'd ease up on the choke a bit and hammer fist that fucken dirt down dude's throat. All the fucken way down. Dude's face would look like a sinkhole. Sure, his teeth would go down with the mud, but who's counting? But Danny wouldn't be finished there. Not by a fucken longhot.

He would turn dude over so his toothless, mud filed mouth is stuck in the mud and he'd begin issuing commands. "EAT, BITCH!!" and stuff like that. After dude ate enough mud to fill his belly Danny would begin hammerfisting his belly and have him puke it back up. THEN, while dude was in mid puke, he'd tighten the triangle and have the man choke to death in his own vomit.

I've always felt Mel cheated us there. I think that's why he was never invited to UFC 1 and Danny was. Mel couldn't stand it and he went a bit crazy and started talking about packs of n words and stuff. He lost it. Jealousy. Eventually he blamed the Jews and we all know how that went for him.

Passion of Christ my fucken ass (actually, don't!) Danny was the only one with any real passion there. Mel was phoning in his phoneyness and we all knew it. So I say "fuck Mel Shitson. Danny Glover for president." With nothing but mud and his own body, Danny can change the world.
 
tkotom said:
But why are so many of them better than most people?
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Everyone’s family has a couple dozen professional fighters in it.

we all have the courage to fight professionally on the biggest stage to test ourselves.

what’s so impressive about that?
 
Against Gary Busey? Wave an 8 ball of coke in front of that guy and he'd tap dance down the street like Pippie Longstockings.
 
blaseblah said:
The fighters who took part in UFC 1 were not elite grappers. Severn and Shamrock were professional wrestlers with some grappling experience but they weren't as skilled as Royce. Kimo was just some dude with a Taekwondo belt.
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Severn was an accomplished amateur wrestler as well, but as I've mentioned, the judo/sambo he learned before the UFC didn't teach everything the Gracies knew--even if it was buried somewhere way back in judo/Japanese JJ history. Shamrock had 1 year of Pancrase experience, high school wrestling and a little pro wrestlilng. Royce began training as a toddler like all the Gracies. I remember them showing Kimo do kicks beforehand and he actually looked pretty good. I wanted to see him land one of those on Royce but it was all grappling.

I believe Kimo was a high school wrestler who learned a very small amount of BJJ (or something) before the event. That's always been a little mysterious. Rumor back in the day was he spent a few weekends with the Machado brothers. Mabye he just watched Royce's previous fights carefully, but he definitely brought a better gameplan than anyone previously. And he used his superior strenght/athleticism very well. I'm sure the Gracies didn't teach him anything, though, as they were very strict about not teaching other fighters. Jason Delucia was the one exception because he did a Gracie Challenge prior to the UFC. He wasn't nearly on Royce's level though--just maybe on and off training for a year or so before UFC 2.
 
While I included this video in an unrelated comment earlier, I thought I'd show it again. It's probably the most famous pre-MMA submission hold that I remember.
 
KarateYeah said:
Damn, you were pretty convinced it wasn't Rorion in the first huh? Haha a lot of posts that required a lot of retractions. Lol

Good on you though for owning up to all of them
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Yup. I knew Bobby Bass was the choreographer, but didn’t realize they brought Rorion in for that fight. I believe in owning up when you are wrong.
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Yes .

It goes

Japanese jiu-jitsu ( Hand to hand art of the Samurai, what they did when attacked without a sword or lost their weapon in combat. This was a full Martial system that had strikes, chokes, arm locks, throws, weapon disarms and self defense moves/attacks, no real rules of engagement this is Combat, Groin kicks , eye pokes..all good)

Judo ( Sport martial art made when samurai lost majority of their rights as Japan modernized to look similar to the West and had a bunch of Martial Art killing machines( Samurai) hanging around with nothing to do. Judo removed strikes and created competition based grappling with rules)

BJJ ( Brazilians took what they had learned from traveling Japanese Judoka's and built on it , primarily the Gracie family in which one brother was not as physically capable as the other and chose to take BJJ in more of a technical route (Helio) and made it less about power and strength and more about leverage and control as he couldn't do the throws or aggressive movements of traditional Judo due to his physical limitations)

I know all of this because i personally study Japanese jiu-jitsu , albeit a Modern version as im from North America but part of our training is to understand its origins and have been taught and researched this throughout my training as for my black belt test part of it requires a essay to be written about its history, I am currently a Blue belt ( should be brown but i missed my last test) which makes me just 2 belts away from a black. The gym i train with had links/ties to Carlos Newton back in the day
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Cheers man.
But the part about the gracie family creating stuff isnt quite like that. They actually stole the art from a dude (Maeda, was it? Can't remember. Just woke up btw). Minotauro told me he was writing a book about the history of JJ in Brazil, maybe 3 years ago. Not sure if he finished it already.
 
I really liked Lethal Weapon 4 back then. My man Jet Li kicked ass.
Also, which one is the Riggs truck/house?
And that "diplomatic immunity" Was great. It's been over 2 decades...
Gotta rewatch all of em.
 
dog y said:
Cheers man.
But the part about the gracie family creating stuff isnt quite like that. They actually stole the art from a dude (Maeda, was it? Can't remember. Just woke up btw). Minotauro told me he was writing a book about the history of JJ in Brazil, maybe 3 years ago. Not sure if he finished it already.
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Yes...Maeda was a traveling Japanese judoka who would put on matches against locals where ever the show/circus he was part of went, one of those stops he fought with the Gracies began teaching them shortly after and from there they tweaked it into there own style aka gracie jiu-jitsu which would then be accepted as Brazilian jiujitsu..

I guess you could say they stole it...but if you want to say that then...Sambo stole everything it knows from other martial arts..and doesnt have any of its own substance...but we know thats not true...the same can be applied to BJJ origins
 
acannxr said:
The Gracie family are nothing but conmen whose only intention with the UFC was to commercialize the martial art they stole from Judo and claimed as their own innovation.
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THIS
 
Pankration and boxing date back to 600 BC ffs.

You fucking cans who think man just learned fighting abilities are something to behold.
 
tkotom said:
But why are so many of them better than most people?
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Better in what sense?
In MMA? Not anymore.
In BJJ? Because they specialize? Still not like they win 100% of the tournaments.
 
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