Mayweather's top 5 fighters of all time

[Seano]

All the old timers really had over FLoyd is a large quantity of tomato cans that they fought for paychecks. Thats not to say that there aren't ATG fighters who accomplished more than Mayweather but when you look past the filler on their records, there aren't really that many more quality wins.

Someone mentioned that Robinson was 128-1 at one point but how many of those 128 were really top tier guys? Todays fighters can't/don't fight cans like that.

Thats not really a knock on the old timers, its just the way it was. They all did it. Its the historians who ignore the fact that not every guy that say, Robinson fought was on the level of Gavilan or Armstrong.

 

[Canelo]

All the old timers really had over FLoyd is a large quantity of tomato cans that they fought for paychecks. Thats not to say that there aren't ATG fighters who accomplished more than Mayweather but when you look past the filler on their records, there aren't really that many more quality wins.

Someone mentioned that Robinson was 128-1 at one point but how many of those 128 were really top tier guys? Todays fighters can't/don't fight cans like that.

Thats not really a knock on the old timers, its just the way it was. They all did it. Its the historians who ignore the fact that not every guy that say, Robinson fought was on the level of Gavilan or Armstrong.

This is true, but SRR fought more ATG fighters than anyone in history, so it's pretty easy to asses his level of opposition.

Floyd always uses the amount of world champions he's beat as a measuring stick, but how much does that really mean today? You don't get paper ATG's like you do belts.

 

[RandomUser12]

Knows about as much about boxing as his fans do.

Someone mentioned that Robinson was 128-1 at one point but how many of those 128 were really top tier guys? Todays fighters can't/don't fight cans like that.

Far more than Mayweather's ever fought. Go look up the actual ratings from those periods and you'll see that for yourself.

And not only can fighters today get away with fighting cans, they can also be well paid for doing so (even charging people for the right to watch them fight said cans.)

 

[clashnat]

Far more than Mayweather's ever fought.

That's just a statement thrown out of there. Feel free to back it up by listing all the top guys he beat.

And not only can fighters today get away with fighting cans, they can also be well paid for doing so (even charging people for the right to watch them fight said cans.)

I think it's much harder to do that today than it was back in the day. Even the fact that todays fighters have so much footage to study makes it harder.

But let's take an example: Are you referrering to a fight like Pacquiao vs. Algieri?
Algieri wasn't a top opponent, true. But can? He was undefeated and had a win over Provodnikov.

Picking opponents by height (Robinson ducked fighters who were 5'9+ tall according to Emanuel Steward) would lead to a shitstorm if a boxer did that today.

 

[Seano]

Knows about as much about boxing as his fans do.





Far more than Mayweather's ever fought. Go look up the actual ratings from those periods and you'll see that for yourself.

We've had this conversation on this forum a dozen times at least. I'm familiar with Robinsons resume. I actually said in the post you quoted that Mayweather hadn't accomplished more than some ATGs.

And not only can fighters today get away with fighting cans, they can also be well paid for doing so (even charging people for the right to watch them fight said cans.)

And you claim others are ignorant.


Robinson regularly fought guys with sub .500 records. No, top fighters today can't fight guys like that. If Mayweather fought a guy with as many draws and losses as wins, he'd be laughed out of the sport. He's being laughed at now for fighting a guy who has lost 3 times.

 

[Seano]

This is true, but SRR fought more ATG fighters than anyone in history, so it's pretty easy to asses his level of opposition.

Floyd always uses the amount of world champions he's beat as a measuring stick, but how much does that really mean today? You don't get paper ATG's like you do belts.

Actually, I think fighters today are written off much more quickly than fighters from Robinsons era. Take a look at Lamotta's resume, for example. No way would people ignore all those losses and dives today and still call a fighter great.

 

[RandomUser12]

That's just a statement thrown out of there. Feel free to back it up by listing all the top guys he beat.

No, it's a factual statement backed up by the actual rankings. Mayweather has absolutely nothing on Robinson as far as quality wins or number of wins over ranked contenders.

I think it's much harder to do that today than it was back in the day. Even the fact that todays fighters have so much footage to study makes it harder.

LOL, Leo Santa Cruz has made over two million dollars in his last three fights against unranked soft touches in the last year.

But let's take an example: Are you referrering to a fight like Pacquiao vs. Algieri?
Algieri wasn't a top opponent, true. But can? He was undefeated and had a win over Provodnikov.

I'm referring the whole climate of modern professional boxing, where the likes of David Haye can charge people to watch him fight Audley Harrison, or Anthony Mundine can spend his entire career on ppv, regardless of how terrible his opponent is.

Just look at the odds being floated around on Mayweather's next fight, FFS - all for the bare minimum of just 65 dollars.

Picking opponents by height (Robinson ducked fighters who were 5'9+ tall according to Emanuel Steward) would lead to a shitstorm if a boxer did that today.

So because Emanuel Steward allegedly makes that claims, makes it true? Never mind the fact that it's blatantly stupid and wrong?

 

[clashnat]

No, it's a factual statement backed up by the actual rankings. Mayweather has absolutely nothing on Robinson as far as quality wins or number of wins goes

He probably has nothing on him. But you stated FAR more.
How much are we talking about? If you refuse to list all names, give me at least a number.

So because Emanuel Steward allegedly makes that claims, makes it true? Never mind the fact that it's blatantly stupid and wrong?

It could be a statement just thrown out (sounds familiar). But I don't know why Manny would do that.

 

[RandomUser12]

Robinson regularly fought guys with sub .500 records. No, top fighters today can't fight guys like that. If Mayweather fought a guy with as many draws and losses as wins, he'd be laughed out of the sport. He's being laughed at now for fighting a guy who has lost 3 times.

They're still fighting guys of a similar level, only they're doing it against guys with a more superficially-inflated record - and they're doing it while fighting, at most, twice a year.

Your obsession with continually bringing this up is weird. It was a totally different era where the money wasn't such where guys could afford to fight just twice a year, even the vast majority of the elites. These fights weren't for padding process.

 

[clashnat]

I'm not that familiar with Santa Cruz, maybe someone else can can confirm what you say. But I know he's fighting Mares next and possibly Rigo. So lets just agree that he's finally fighting the top guys after fighting a list of lower ranked opponents. Ray "how could you not include him in'yo'top'5" Robinson did nothing else.

Roy Jones Jr. could've easily went to 100-1 had he done it.

 

[Sir Nalgada]

They shoulda prefaced this whole thing by saying 'Floyd is an athlete not a boxing historian' so hardcore boxing fans wouldnt have a heart attack over this. This looks like its a list of who his personal favorites are.

For those of us who followed Floyd closely since the beginning...him not having Ray Leonard on there is pretty surprising. Early in his career he said he admired Sugar Ray Leonard and wanted to be a star just like him. Maybe soome of Ray's recent remarks about being able to handle the Mayweather style turned him off?

 

[korean blood]

I was smiling when he put Duran at 2, love it

 

[Seano]

They're still fighting guys of a similar level, only they're doing it against guys with a more superficially-inflated record - and they're doing it while fighting, at most, twice a year.

Nonsense. They fought so often for the money and to stay sharp. Top guys make more money today, so they don't need to fight tomato cans as often. Mayweather and Pac for example, spar better guys than the cans who inflated Robinsons record.

Your obsession with continually bringing this up is weird. It was a totally different era where the money wasn't such where guys could afford to fight just twice a year, even the vast majority of the elites. These fights weren't for padding process.[/QUOTE]

Nonsense. They fought so often for the money and to stay sharp. Top guys make more money today, so they don't need to fight tomato cans as often. Mayweather and Pac for example, spar better guys than the cans who inflated Robinsons record.

This isn't including the true ATGs on a guy like Robinson's resume, obviously just the fluff that made up the majority of his record.

Also, no one is forcing you to discuss this. If you find the conversation weird, feel free to go to another thread and discuss something else. I'm not keeping you here.

 

[JayElectra]

We've had this conversation on this forum a dozen times at least. I'm familiar with Robinsons resume. I actually said in the post you quoted that Mayweather hadn't accomplished more than some ATGs.

And you claim others are ignorant.


Robinson regularly fought guys with sub .500 records. No, top fighters today can't fight guys like that. If Mayweather fought a guy with as many draws and losses as wins, he'd be laughed out of the sport. He's being laughed at now for fighting a guy who has lost 3 times.

He did, but he also has about double the amount of top 10 rated wins that Mayweather has over a similarly big weight range (135-160 for Robinson (would have been all the way to 175 if not for the heat in the Maxim fight), 130-154 for Mayweather). Not all of his fights were against the elites, obviously, but there were enough elite fighters in there to make his resume remarkable by any measure. Now, the question would be is it possible or practical in this era to ever fight that many top fighters in one's career and the answer is probably no. Based on the era that Mayweather is fighting in, his resume is remarkable in its own way.

 

[Seano]

He did, but he also has about double the amount of top 10 rated wins that Mayweather has over a similarly big weight range (135-160 for Robinson (would have been all the way to 175 if not for the heat in the Maxim fight), 130-154 for Mayweather). Not all of his fights were against the elites, obviously, but there were enough elite fighters in there to make his resume remarkable by any measure. Now, the question would be is it possible or practical in this era to ever fight that many top fighters in one's career and the answer is probably no. Based on the era that Mayweather is fighting in, his resume is remarkable in its own way.

Sure, but my point was that boxing historians have convinced casual fans that the old timers only fought killers. Like that 128-1 comment.Yeah thats a lot of fights. But at least half of those guys are fighters who wouldn't cut it as sparring partners for the top modern fighters.
Fighters today stay inshape in the gym as opposed to fighting nobodies for pay to do the same thing.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Sure, but my point was that boxing historians have convinced casual fans that the old timers only fought killers. Like that 128-1 comment.Yeah thats a lot of fights. But at least half of those guys are fighters who wouldn't cut it as sparring partners for the top modern fighters.
Fighters today stay inshape in the gym as opposed to fighting nobodies for pay to do the same thing.

Do you like today's format more than the fight-every-two-weeks style of the 20's-50's? We get enough fights these days but there are guys in this modern era with over 100 fights and very respectable records like Chavez Sr. and Jose Luis Ramirez. Which do you prefer?

 

[Seano]

Do you like today's format more than the fight-every-two-weeks style of the 20's-50's? We get enough fights these days but there are guys in this modern era with over 100 fights and very respectable records like Chavez Sr. and Jose Luis Ramirez. Which do you prefer?

Personally I prefer to see quality fights.


Chavez gets a lot of shit to this day for the quality of some guys he fought but a lot of them were "better" (in terms of results in the ring) than a lot of the fluff on say, Willie Pep's record.

Pep is probably a better example than Robinson, to be fair.

Todays fighters aren't held to the same standard as fighters pre 1965.

If you take the cans off of records of guys like Moore, Pep etc- you have a resume that probably actually pales against the records of some more modern greats.

I mean, was Wille Pep greater than Ray Leonard because Leonard had like 1/4 the amount of opponents? Lots of people would say yes.

 

[JayElectra]

Personally I prefer to see quality fights.


Chavez gets a lot of shit to this day for the quality of some guys he fought but a lot of them were "better" (in terms of results in the ring) than a lot of the fluff on say, Willie Pep's record.

Pep is probably a better example than Robinson, to be fair.

Todays fighters aren't held to the same standard as fighters pre 1965.

If you take the cans off of records of guys like Moore, Pep etc- you have a resume that probably actually pales against the records of some more modern greats.

I mean, was Wille Pep greater than Ray Leonard because Leonard had like 1/4 the amount of opponents? Lots of people would say yes.

I've seen people give sourced lists that have Pep beating almost 40 rated opponents (some of those opponents were rated at LW when Pep was weighing right around the FW limit). Again, there is a lot of filler there, but there is also a massive amount of quality.

 

[Helmut Zemo]

Did the hosts pick those 10 to choose from? JCC, Leonard, Whitaker, Mayweather, and Marciano don't need to be in that class, but it's not hard to see why there were picked.

I would rank those guys:

Robinson

Duran
Armstrong

Louis
Ali

Ray Leonard or Whitaker


JCC

Not sure between Mayweather and Marciano. McFarland is clearly the greatest undefeated boxer over those two though. Mayweather's reasoning is amusing, usually athletes are pretty bad at ranking the greatest of their sports. Duran in January gave some insight on his opponents for The Ring:

Best Skills : Ken Buchanan

Best Jab : Ken Buchanan

Best Defence : Ken Buchanan

Best Chin : Marvin Hagler

Best Puncher : Esteben De Jesus

Fastest Hands : Sugar Ray Leonard

Best Feet : Ken Buchanan

Smartest : Sugar Ray Leonard

Strongest : Marvin Hagler

Best Overall : Sugar Ray Leonard

 

[Seano]

He did, but he also has about double the amount of top 10 rated wins that Mayweather has over a similarly big weight range (135-160 for Robinson (would have been all the way to 175 if not for the heat in the Maxim fight), 130-154 for Mayweather). Not all of his fights were against the elites, obviously, but there were enough elite fighters in there to make his resume remarkable by any measure. Now, the question would be is it possible or practical in this era to ever fight that many top fighters in one's career and the answer is probably no. Based on the era that Mayweather is fighting in, his resume is remarkable in its own way.

So I did a little digging- Ray Robinson beat men 16 who could have claimed to have been champions at one point or another.

Floyd is 23-0 against former world champs.Berto is likely to be 24.

And sure, there are more titles today but as I pointed out, remove the filler and what do you have? A record against legit guys not much different than top guys today.