Masvidal V.S. Ferguson

MescalineDreams said:
Think mas smokes him everywhere the fight goes

Just keeps it on the feet

I do thing those last two rounds would've been more competitive with Nate and Mas had slowed a bit

Tony would need to drag it into deeper waters. Then it could be interesting

I dunno, honestly I could see Mas finishing him before then though. Mas boxing, kicks, inside game, clinch game is all around better and more dangerous than Tony outside of his elbows and giant hands.

I think tony is a little past his prime as well actually, maybe. I think he looked better against RDA personally, his personal struggles may have more to do with that than physical though
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That's one take. I think Masvidal lands on Tony but also eats a ton of hard jobs. I think both guys end up bloody and busted up. Tony's pressure means you can hit him but also that you really can't avoid taking damage, no matter how tight your footwork and boxing is.

If Mas was slowing vs Nate it wasn't much. Don't think Nate had much to offer.

I know you tend to always paint Tony as some sloppy but effective striker that wins mostly due to grit and cardio. I think that's (mostly) inaccurate but we can agree to disagree.
 
mkess101 said:
That's one take. I think Masvidal lands on Tony but also eats a ton of hard jobs. I think both guys end up bloody and busted up. Tony's pressure means you can hit him but also that you really can't avoid taking damage, no matter how tight your footwork and boxing is.

If Mas was slowing vs Nate it wasn't much. Don't think Nate had much to offer.

I know you tend to always paint Tony as some sloppy but effective striker that wins mostly due to grit and cardio. I think that's (mostly) inaccurate but we can agree to disagree.
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When hes in the cage most of what he does technically is jus wrong.. lol, like everything you're taught not to do

But you watch him shadowbox and it's clear he does have some some boxing. It's just in the heat of the fight, often times his technique goes out the window.

I think he can be technical when he wants to be, relatively speaking. But he likes those battles, he wants to put pressure on you and break you, from what I can tell he cant be broken. So that's one of his biggest weapons in a fight.

But yeah, boxing/ striking has kinda been all I've done for the last few years, so i've just never really been impressed by Tony there compared to most people here. But he makes it work. Masvidal is levels above anyone hes ever fought on the feet

I think he makes him look silly and amateurish without much effort. But, Tony would try to make it an ugly, high paced war of attrition and drag him into deeper water. I do think he has technique when he decides to use it though. His jab is alright. Cant remember what he hit cerrone with at the end of the first, might've been a straight right but that was a nice punch.

I try not to underestimate Tony, stylistically this isn't a great fight for him tho I feel.

But we can agree to disagree
 
mkess101 said:
Nobody's "feelings are hurt" LMAO. We're talking about analyzing a fighter's game here.

Ferguson won rd 1 vs Pettis. I guess I'm not sure what you were trying to say there. Pettis didn't do much in that round. Also, he didn't break his hand. He claimed he did, but a broken hand results in an automatic suspension from the athletic commission and those are publicly disclosed. There wasn't one. The reason he quit was because he was getting mauled.

Lee had a good round 1 vs Tony but not really striking. They knocked each other down but both were balance shots that didn't hurt the other. Lee outgrappled Tony in rd 1 yes. Rd 2 was standing and Tony clearly won it, easily. Finished the fight in rd 3.

Again, it doesn't matter to me if you want to think certain things that aren't all that accurate. You have that right and it sure isn't hurting anyone. But if you really want to understand how good the guy is you should rewatch some of these fights.
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Good to know that you're not hurt or sad ; but your analysis might be tinted with emotion. It's ok to to defend his Standup game, he deserve our respect. I might have felt in a rabbit hole here ;) and you have very good observations.
#1- Topic is about Masvidal, an outstanding kickboxer who, in my opinion, would hurt Furguson quickly in the fight.
Furguson won't be able to rely on his pressure and his chin.
I did re watched several Furguson's fights, and this man is strong and finds a way to win.
We can see an evolution but he still get caught, tricked, counter punch a lot.
Time will tell, let's see if he can keep this wining streak.
You might be right ; awkwardness, punching power, pressure and chin is already a scary combo.
 
mkess101 said:
And Masvidal? His popularity skyrocketed when? How old is he and how long has he been in the UFC? Khabib is younger but most of his stardom was from the Conor situation. So yeah...if Tony does beat Khabib it's pretty easy to see how his popularity could take off. Anything else I can help out with bud? I'm happy to help, just ask!

<{MingNope}>
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LMAO!

6yws3457dyz11.jpg
 
MescalineDreams said:
When hes in the cage most of what he does technically is jus wrong.. lol, like everything you're taught not to do

But you watch him shadowbox and it's clear he does have some some boxing. It's just in the heat of the fight, often times his technique goes out the window.

I think he can be technical when he wants to be, relatively speaking. But he likes those battles, he wants to put pressure on you and break you, from what I can tell he cant be broken. So that's one of his biggest weapons in a fight.

But yeah, boxing/ striking has kinda been all I've done for the last few years, so i've just never really been impressed by Tony there compared to most people here. But he makes it work. Masvidal is levels above anyone hes ever fought on the feet

I think he makes him look silly and amateurish without much effort. But, Tony would try to make it an ugly, high paced war of attrition and drag him into deeper water. I do think he has technique when he decides to use it though. His jab is alright. Cant remember what he hit cerrone with at the end of the first, might've been a straight right but that was a nice punch.

I try not to underestimate Tony, stylistically this isn't a great fight for him tho I feel.

But we can agree to disagree
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But the thing is, it's not all technically wrong...for MMA. If it was boxing? Yeah, for sure. He throws a jab and then overextends on his straight right behind it all the time. But he's also setting up a spinning elbow off it. That's just one example.

That also doesn't mean he's the most technically sound MMA striker either. But it's hard to gauge that because different guys adapt and do what works for them. But just watch the Cerrone fight and how he shoulder rolls everything and even the strikes that land don't land flush. People get ideas stuck in their head about guys and then refuse to alter the way they view things even when evidence that contradicts it is presented.
 
at 155 tony outworks him and gets a split DEC

at 170 Mas brutalizes tony till tony does one of his "accidental" (on purpose) illegal shots and the fight gets stopped because Mas is not having any of it and retaliates.
 
Lateralus said:
This is the real BMF fight.
Hope we get to see this fight some day whether it be at 155 or 170, it would be The JBG's wet dream.
I'd said Ferguson by submission after wearing down Masvidal after a few rounds, but would be a war none the less.
What say you Sherdog?
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Man would be a banger, I would favor Masvidal but you never know with Tony
 
Its going to be a 5 round bloody war
 
So one of these fighters is one win away of becoming the LW Goat whilst the other couldnt cut it at LW and is now somehow considered a WW contender by beating an unmotivated Till, an overhyped wrestler and a washed up Nate Diaz.
Come on guys. Not saying Masvidal has no chance at all but some people claiming he would walk through Tony is ridicilous
 
mkess101 said:
But the thing is, it's not all technically wrong...for MMA. If it was boxing? Yeah, for sure. He throws a jab and then overextends on his straight right behind it all the time. But he's also setting up a spinning elbow off it. That's just one example.

That also doesn't mean he's the most technically sound MMA striker either. But it's hard to gauge that because different guys adapt and do what works for them. But just watch the Cerrone fight and how he shoulder rolls everything and even the strikes that land don't land flush. People get ideas stuck in their head about guys and then refuse to alter the way they view things even when evidence that contradicts it is presented.
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Trust me I get it.

I'm not closed minded


It's why I've always been on the fence with him.

Because what he does works for him and ultimately effectiveness is the most important thing. I'm well aware that hes not devoid of technique

this is one of those things where the truth lies in the middle I feel.


On a personal level a lot of his habits / aspects of what he does have always bugged me tho. Hes gotten away with it, but he may not be so lucky against someone with the knowledge, skill and strategy to expose those holes.
Which is what I've always felt those upper tier boxers / strikers would do. Many of his fights have shown glimpses of this.

There is a sense of irony about your last statement as you also do the same thing
 
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MescalineDreams said:
Trust me I get it.

I'm not closed minded


It's why I've always been on the fence with him.

Because what he does works for him and ultimately effectiveness is the most important thing. I'm well aware that hes not devoid of technique

this is one of those things where the truth lies in the middle I feel.


On a personal level a lot of his habits / aspects of what he does have always bugged me tho. Hes gotten away with it, but he may not be so lucky against someone with the knowledge, skill and strategy to expose those holes.
Which is what I've always felt those upper tier boxers / strikers would do.

There is a sense of irony about your last statement as you also do the same thing
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I absolutely do the same thing at times. Hell, I catch MYSELF doing it LOL. When it comes to Ferguson though, keep this in mind. I was a fan of his when I thought of him in much the same way you do: a guy who was winning mainly on grit and cardio and pace and not much on technique. Only AFTER I really dug into some tape did I realize I was off on my analysis. Yeah, he does rely on those things but they are in addition to some real skills.
 
mkess101 said:
I absolutely do the same thing at times. Hell, I catch MYSELF doing it LOL. When it comes to Ferguson though, keep this in mind. I was a fan of his when I thought of him in much the same way you do: a guy who was winning mainly on grit and cardio and pace and not much on technique. Only AFTER I really dug into some tape did I realize I was off on my analysis. Yeah, he does rely on those things but they are in addition to some real skills.
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Yeah honestly I think we never stop doing it as humans lol

No matter how evolved or open minded we become.

It's not even so much that he doesnt have technique and skill, it's just the sloppiness in his approach, the openings he leaves, how he leaves his chin out there. I see him getting away with it because he is incredibly durable, he has the heart of a warrior, incredible pace and he puts pressure on you that most cant keep up with.

But a higher level guy who moves well, counters well, exposes those holes in defense and can navigate through the pressure, I think it's a long night for him.

Tony has fought decent strikers. Cerrone, Barboza, Pettis but all of these guys wilt under pressure. He was tailor made to beat them.

But I'll go deeper into some Ferg tape at some point. Maybe see what else I can see. Getting fight pass soon
 
Lateralus said:
This is the real BMF fight.
Hope we get to see this fight some day whether it be at 155 or 170, it would be The JBG's wet dream.
I'd said Ferguson by submission after wearing down Masvidal after a few rounds, but would be a war none the less.
What say you Sherdog?
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I say you should be the UFC’s official matchmaker. Cracking fight. I’d probably edge towards masvidal but not with real conviction.
 
Soul On Ice said:
McGoat KOs both
{<Mcgoat}{<Mcgoat}{<Mcgoat}{<Mcgoat}{<Mcgoat}
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I’d love to see him fight both guys. I’d give him a fighting chance against tony, though he probably takes a horrible beating after he can’t get rid of him in the first
Masvidal knocks mcgregor out.

Conor won’t fight either of them!
 
This is the fight I want to see. Very interesting match up. Tony is one of the best, but I think Masdival can beat him. Tony is the better fighter overal, but he will be forced to keep it standing with Masdival, and if it does, Masdival owns it.
 
Mas bangs him up, prob cut him up so bad with the hands a la’ Diaz and get the Dr to see enough with blood in the eyes. Maybe TKO but damn Tony is a tough dude.
 
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