Are you actually implying that the crazy shit Trump has said and done represents the Republican base? When ever was moving the Consulate to Jerusalem a high priority to the GOP? Russia our new BFF? Tax cuts with an increase in spending? Pumping the stock market by allowing corps to repatriate overseas money? Blowing up the deficit in just 4 years? Bullshit. Trump plays you all with the core fears of the Republican Party, promises to be the ONLY savior then does shit that most Republicans would never image. But he gets away with it. And then it molds the party.
Social Marjorie Taylor Greene On Tape Harassing AOC
- Thread starter 58miles
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Are you actually implying that the crazy shit Trump has said and done represents the Republican base? When ever was moving the Consulate to Jerusalem a high priority to the GOP? Russia our new BFF? Tax cuts with an increase in spending? Pumping the stock market by allowing corps to repatriate overseas money? Blowing up the deficit in just 4 years? Bullshit. Trump plays you all with the core fears of the Republican Party, promises to be the ONLY savior then does shit that most Republicans would never image. But he gets away with it. And then it molds the party.
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The Republican voter does not like the Republican establishment and felt Trump fought them.
the anti globalist jobs plan had support
His border plan had support
His energy plan had support
His anti woke bullshit had support
His anti war stance had support
He defended america and its ideals
He fought back
Watching Jeb bush and mitt Romney practically cry on stage is why everyone supported him. He overthrew the establishment and they still don’t have control of their Party. It’s ours now. Populist policies going forward.
the larger establishment that runs america is deeply concerned that they lost control of one of the parties. And thus the media keeps talking about it trying to steer opinion.
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Energy plan? Like get rid of solar and wind?
Remove the word climate change from everything
Relax rules on dumping waste in rivers and parks
Give exemptions to coal and fracking
He is the most anti climate and anti renewable energy president in the last 30 years
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Yeah, he was. That wasn’t good.
But he had our fracking and gas production going well. Natural gas is very clean. We have great scrubbers for coal plants now that we use(unlike China).
doesn’t make sense to not have more than one direction towards energy usage here.
he let people get away with too much pollution wise and he shouldn’t have been anti Green energy.
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Language and messaging are important. People too glibly throw out words, brand people, and it completely shuts down any substantive conversation. It's not a minor problem. The words you use are going to help form the shape of the conversation.
You're using all of these terms without the proper definitions, context, or the nuance they have.
A grifter isn't just someone that says something they don't believe in; they are doing it for a purpose. They are trying to sell snake oil in order to get some kind of monetary benefit. If that is what AOC's goal was, she's doing a shitty job of monetizing her position and fame by refusing to take money from corporations and big donors, shitting on corporations, etc.
You should have very different feelings about a soulless, greedy grifter looking to make money off of people's hopes, dreams and grievances vs. someone that is politically inexperienced/incompetent/ineffective....or...someone that just doesn't agree with how you want to get things done.
Performative politics requires one to actually have the power to get things done, a power that you don't use. Instead of doing real things to get something done, you do bullshit cosmetic stuff that doesn't make any real changes.
Performative politics is promoting black, gay, women, and trans Army generals to bomb the same Afghani villages that an old white general would have bombed.
Jimmy Dore is not correct about AOC, because he would have to have an actual understanding of basic power and politics/government in order to analyze and rate AOC's job.
You're operating under two false assumptions. One, AOC does not have the power that Jimmy Dore, or you, thinks that she has. And two, even if she did, you are assuming that she thinks the strategy you want to employ is the correct one. You are assuming that you have the one, true correct answer, and that if people don't do that, then they are "grifters" and "neolibs".
And that, is bullshit.
You can't evaluate AOC when you don't even understand the basics of government and power. If you think Bernie could MAYBE be a grifter, then you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
You want people like AOC to just DO something, with little thought of how to do it.
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MTG is going after AOC because she's a jealous clout chasing clown. She recognizes that barely two years into her term as a congresswoman and despite having no real formal policy making power AOC is more well known than Senators and members of the House who have been in office making real policy for decades.
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Clout for what purpose? Despite what you guys think, she is nowhere near as stupid as you guys make her out to be. She is aware of how she is perceived by the right, and by people like Pelosi. I don't believe for a second that she thinks Pelosi and her are going to one day be besties and have a girls day at the spa and bond over tea and cake. That "communist" label isn't going away.
And if clout was her goal, why doesn't she fully go in that direction and just be Pelosi's lap dog?
When did she stop talking about the border/immigration, climate, or healthcare? Her positions haven't changed under Biden. She isn't kissing Israel's ass. If clout was her goal, she would just shut up.
"Rocking the boat" for the sake of rocking the boat is stupid. It isn't strategic, and largely would be counterproductive.
This idea that because she isn't being a reactionary to every single thing the Democrat/Washington machine does = 'She doesn't really believe in anything' is complete nonsense.
She didn't brand herself as a "radical revolutionary", people like you did. She often talks about how not revolutionary the things she wants are--education, healthcare, and a clean environment.
It's a complete misreading/lack of understanding of her position, power, and beliefs. It's also working under the silly assumption that things MUST be done in THIS particular way that you believe in, otherwise, she doesn't really care or believe in the things that she says she does.
You're trying to define her beliefs by your shitty, strawman standards
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Kushner made bank in the Middle East and was saved, Trump bragged about how the Saudis brutally murdered a US resident, he also touted China as an economic foe as his daughter made bank with China, he was anti-globalist and yet he abandoned Rojava as a gift to his buddy Erdogan, said he was stopping "endless wars" while increasing US troop presence in the Middle East. He said windmills caused cancer because it affected his international property in the UK.
As a pipe dream, Mexico was never going to pay for it, there were more effective ways to deal with border safety and illegal immigration, most undocumented workers are visa overstays I believe, but instead of focusing on that they cut federal programs to focus a symbolic wall that resulted in...
Not to mention putting oil and coal lobbyists in charge of the EPA? How does one even justify that?
Well being pro sex work is pretty woke, and he paid for sex while his wife nursed his newborn, but on one hand being against housing discrimination based on color is also considered woke, and he was sued for not renting to blacks.
Except Iraq wanted the US to pull out of Iraq completely after we murdered a couple of our allies when we killed an Iranian general in Iraq and Trump refused and also wanted to kill Assad.
He also overrode a bipartisan vote to stop supporting Saudi Arabia against Yemen and one of our bombs blew a school bus full of children to pieces. He also routinely threatened war against Iran and North Korea did he not?
How so? He said that guns should be taken first which violates the second amendment and had peaceful protesters and journalists beaten for his "it's a bible" photo op. If you're saying a man who shits on gold toilets, peeps on the underage girls in teen pageants, routinely fucked over working class contractors, says he's smarter than scientists, knows more about war than generals, and lied nonstop as America and her ideals then we have differing versions of America so that statement doesn't hold up.
He fought against any corporate media or Republican that didn't worship him, he fought environmental regulations for the benefit of corporations and profit, He fought back against traditional American allies and partners while being wooed by dictators.
What establishment did he overthrow, he wanted massive military parades, he plugged "news" sources that had to literally admit to making shit up, he literally put oil and coal corporations in charge of protecting our environment, the military industrial complex certainly wasn't hurt by him.
And it's frankly baffling you think they're concerned about Trump supporters instead of the rise of Democratic Socialists popularity replacing traditional Democrats. As we clearly see with your post, the establishment doesn't have to really do anything, as a symbolic gesture and empty words are all it takes to control the new Republicans. To contrast MTG and AOC.. One is focusing on conspiracies about stolen elections, satanic cabals, calling Biden a Communist, that's really the soul of the party, quite easy for the "establishment" to control. Meanwhile DSA politicians are calling for a living wage, affordable healthcare, and affordable education which would impact all Americans for the better. If you were the establishment, who would you choose? MTG stalked Omar because she thought you legally had to swear on a bible and rolls around with III%ers and legitimately thought Hillary Clinton cut a kids face off and wore it as a mask. At least AOC marched with striking union folk and helped them get the raise they wanted lol.
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzKushner made bank in the Middle East and was saved, Trump bragged about how the Saudis brutally murdered a US resident, he also touted China as an economic foe as his daughter made bank with China, he was anti-globalist and yet he abandoned Rojava as a gift to his buddy Erdogan, said he was stopping "endless wars" while increasing US troop presence in the Middle East. He said windmills caused cancer because it affected his international property in the UK.
As a pipe dream, Mexico was never going to pay for it, there were more effective ways to deal with border safety and illegal immigration, most undocumented workers are visa overstays I believe, but instead of focusing on that they cut federal programs to focus a symbolic wall that resulted in...
Not to mention putting oil and coal lobbyists in charge of the EPA? How does one even justify that?
Well being pro sex work is pretty woke, and he paid for sex while his wife nursed his newborn, but on one hand being against housing discrimination based on color is also considered woke, and he was sued for not renting to blacks.
Except Iraq wanted the US to pull out of Iraq completely after we murdered a couple of our allies when we killed an Iranian general in Iraq and Trump refused and also wanted to kill Assad.
He also overrode a bipartisan vote to stop supporting Saudi Arabia against Yemen and one of our bombs blew a school bus full of children to pieces. He also routinely threatened war against Iran and North Korea did he not?
How so? He said that guns should be taken first which violates the second amendment and had peaceful protesters and journalists beaten for his "it's a bible" photo op. If you're saying a man who shits on gold toilets, peeps on the underage girls in teen pageants, routinely fucked over working class contractors, says he's smarter than scientists, knows more about war than generals, and lied nonstop as America and her ideals then we have differing versions of America so that statement doesn't hold up.
He fought against any corporate media or Republican that didn't worship him, he fought environmental regulations for the benefit of corporations and profit, He fought back against traditional American allies and partners while being wooed by dictators.
What establishment did he overthrow, he wanted massive military parades, he plugged "news" sources that had to literally admit to making shit up, he literally put oil and coal corporations in charge of protecting our environment, the military industrial complex certainly wasn't hurt by him.
And it's frankly baffling you think they're concerned about Trump supporters instead of the rise of Democratic Socialists popularity replacing traditional Democrats. As we clearly see with your post, the establishment doesn't have to really do anything, as a symbolic gesture and empty words are all it takes to control the new Republicans. To contrast MTG and AOC.. One is focusing on conspiracies about stolen elections, satanic cabals, calling Biden a Communist, that's really the soul of the party, quite easy for the "establishment" to control. Meanwhile DSA politicians are calling for a living wage, affordable healthcare, and affordable education which would impact all Americans for the better. If you were the establishment, who would you choose? MTG stalked Omar because she thought you legally had to swear on a bible and rolls around with III%ers and legitimately thought Hillary Clinton cut a kids face off and wore it as a mask. At least AOC marched with striking union folk and helped them get the raise they wanted lol.
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z
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Honestly it's my fault. I just realized, sometimes when you're in a river, your feet can't touch the bottom. What does that make it? Deep. If that river is in Illinois... what is that river in? A state...... Deep. State.
So I know realize that clean water is actually the establishment, and mining companies are traditionally not part of the establishment. How could I have been so blind?
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The Green New Deal is either a grift used to increase AOC's status/exposure as a politician, or it is the single most inept piece of legislation to gain national attention in many years. It is absolutely snake oil. She is selling $65 Green New Deal hoodies. So yeah, smells of a grift to me. https://shop.ocasiocortez.com/collections/green-new-deal
Or perhaps a sitting Congresswoman voting for a $4 trillion upward transfer of wealth after spending a week telling people that it was an upward transfer of wealth? Or refusing to use her speaker vote to demand a simple floor vote for M4A, after spending a year demanding a vote for M4A? Like that kind of performative politics? Or are you telling me that only the most powerful politicians in the world - people that can single handedly get things done - can practice performative politics? Is this really your defense of AOC? That she can't be expected to do anything useful?
This is the problem with your logic. You believe politicians when they tell you that they have to play ball. "There are 50+ other congress people, how will anything ever get done if you don't break your principles for them". What the fuck is getting done now? You're telling me that Bernie capitulating to the DNC got people anything that they supported him for? AOC playing ball has done what for anyone?
At least you can buy $30 made in China Green New Deal hats to let your friends know how progressive you are.
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And if not her then its the transsexuals. I think we should have a monthly coming out party to help them emerge from their cocoons and release the hate.
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You're showing exactly the problem I'm talking about. You just read article titles, and have no knowledge or understanding of how things actually work; which is why your criticisms are largely uninformed nonsense.
AOC sells hoodies for $65!! GRIFT!
The shirt costs that much because it is made in America by unionized workers. The funds for the hoodie go directly to campaign fundraising. It isn't going to her pockets. She's one of the few people actually backing up her words by helping the American worker. No one is getting tricked or forced into buying a hoodie. If you want to support the campaign, and also want something to show you supported, then you can get yourself a hoodie.
These kinds of criticisms act as if Bernie or AOC are Stalin style Communists, or as if they are against any and all forms of capitalism or fundraising. It's bullshit.
I'm sure you have not read the Green New Deal, nor have you seen AOC talk about it and its purpose. It was a non-binding resolution. The point of the resolution was not for it to get passed as is, as law. The point of a resolution is to get the framework and conversation started so the process of legislation could begin---getting committees and testimony from experts to Congress so that laws could be made. Having public discussions on it in the House and the Senate. Getting people on record.
There was no fucking way that the Green New Deal was going to get signed under a Republican President and Republican Senate led by Mitch McConnell--and AOC knows that. Which is why the point wasn't for it to be law. That doesn't make it a grift. Whether Republcians and corporate Dems support it or not, it still needs to be talked about by people like her. This goes back to you not understanding her intent, her power, and her understanding of her power.
My logic has nothing to do with "believing politicians", it's about being informed of the political process and reality. People like you want action without plan. You want her to act without thinking of consequences. Just fight for the sake of fighting. That works on twitter, not in the house and the senate when you're the minority.
Again, ForceTheVote was a stupid strategy. There were plenty of other prominent leftys that thought so as well. And you keep sticking to this belief that there is only one way to fight, and it is your way...which makes everyone else grifters.
What have we got? Think about what the political conversations and landscape would be like right now if we didn't have people like Bernie, AOC, and the rest of the squad around. They aren't perfect, but we wouldn't even be talking about these progressive ideas on CNN and in mainstream politics without them. They are pushing the conversation left.
Ohterwise, we would still be ooooohhh and ahhhhhing about how we FINALLY have a black and asian American woman in the white house, and how we have a transgendered cabinet member, and other meaningless bullshit like that.
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Oh no! She's selling hoodies! HOOODIES! HOW DARE SHE!
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She's profiting off of her celebrity in Congress. Specifically, profiting off her most famous bill. She's two years into her role as a public servant and she's already selling merch and branding herself. Sounds a bit like orange man if you ask me.
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Sure, none of the money from AOC's merch shop will personally benefit her. I guess if you want to believe that than you can, but I'm not that naive.
The purpose of the Green New Deal was to start a dialogue and get people on record, but when she had a chance to do that with M4A, she stayed party line. Nope, not buying it.
We just don't agree on this, I guess. Nothing wrong with that. If our conversation is any indication, we probably agree on a lot of things, just not this one.
Natural gas is 100 times worse than CO2 when it comes to greenhouse gases but unlike CO2, which hangs out in the atmosphere for many decades, it is recycled in 10 years. When it’s burnt it is “cleaner” than coal or HFO.
Other than that, I don’t disagree with you on having multiple avenues of energy.
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If grifting/money is AOC's goal, why has she done nothing but fight against corporations and money in politics from the beginning?
Do you think that selling $65 sweatshirts for campaign fundraising, something that is very public and easily auditable, is a smart path to getting rich? AOC's grand plan was to create a sweater shop empire?
If getting rich was her goal, there would be no shortage of companies that would love to sponsor her, pay her to speak at meetings, etc.
This isn't about disagreeing. I have no problems with disagreeing with people.
But your criticisms don't make any sense, because they are factually inaccurate. What you're saying about her doesn't match up with reality.
I reckon that we do probably generally agree on the direction of where we would like the country to go, which makes it all the more frustrating when guys like you don't put much thought into what you're criticizing.
You just move from topic to topic, conflating them, and show no n-depth knowledge of them--and completely omit context.
M4A.....Bernie wanted M4A. Biden wanted to expand Obamacare. Who won the election again?
So now you want AOC to force Biden to do M4A when he won with his plan of Obamacare? That doesn't make any sense. You are asking AOC to fight the Republicans, and fight the Democrats even though Biden won the election on Obamacare. And then you get mad at people like AOC for not running into a battle that they will 100% lose, and brand them as grifters. You don't have the power to force anything in that situation. You can disagree with that, but you're a fool or dishonest if you can't see the flaws in your plan. (Of course I want her to continue to advocate for M4A, but she has no power to force anything. She needs to fight in an intelligent way and continue to push the conversation left)
There are plenty of legitimate things to criticize AOC and the left on---and I just wish that people would actually make those criticisms, so we would not have to waste time talking about absolutely ridiculous stuff like "Is AOC or grifiter or not?"
