Macron: Secularism has never killed anyone.

[milkmandanl]

Like what the fuck. I get that you can say it's not secularism that oppressed Muslims in the USSR or in present day China, and instead it's just reactionary imperialist forces using secularism as a vehicle. But by that logic, it's not religion hurting people either: it's reactions to ethnic and imperial tensions using religion as a vehicle.

i'm only liking your last sentence...and would replace the "but by that logic with "the reality is"

 

[12ga.]

Man without a tempered hand by god starts to think he's god and anything is justifiable in his pursuits of wealth or cause. I mean the elites could solve global warming, terrorism, homeless, and a whole host of issues that confront the modern world tomorrow by killing every person under a billion bucks net worth. Thats why secular communism killed more than anyone and religion is but a blip on the radar.

 

[TheFabulousNew]

Surprised by the amount of appreciation his words are getting

Is safest reply he can give, while keep purposely ignoring the elephant in the room

You're right. But thats indicative of the amount of cuckery we westerners have become accustomed to with France. I guess we're grading Macron on a scale.

 

[Sarge3000]

Well you could certainly say it's about secularisation with the nation building in Afghanistan against the Taliban and against Islamic State, although obviously there's a lot of other motivations there.
It's also certainly not to say the separation of "church" and state is a bad thing, after all people have also been killed in the name of abolitionism and environmentalism.
It's just strange for the French president in particular to say secularism has never killed anyone in contrast to religion, given the history of his country.

To equate the abuses of the French revolution & Reign of terror with the ideology of secularism is fundamentally wrong. I think what killed people was the inherent corruption in the hearts of men in such revolutions, and the drive to power, not enlightenment ideals by far.

In far you should recall that numerous enlightenment figures criticised Revolutionary France for its excesses. The fact is that France has had a degree of brutality in its history, the most brutal period probably being the wars of religion between protestants & Catholics.

It's really out of this entire religious violence that France developed such a strong secular culture, because we remember the abuses.

 

[Ruprecht]

To equate the abuses of the French revolution & Reign of terror with the ideology of secularism is fundamentally wrong. I think what killed people was the inherent corruption in the hearts of men in such revolutions, and the drive to power, not enlightenment ideals by far.

In far you should recall that numerous enlightenment figures criticised Revolutionary France for its excesses. The fact is that France has had a degree of brutality in its history, the most brutal period probably being the wars of religion between protestants & Catholics.

It's really out of this entire religious violence that France developed such a strong secular culture, because we remember the abuses.

If that's the case you could make the same statement about religion, theocracy and every other belief, ideology and political institution that people have killed over. There's pacifist trends, interpretations and examples of most of them. It's still wrong to say, "religion has never killed anyone", because there's examples where it clearly has.
Likewise, the very foundation of the specifically French version of secularism (especially the active prohibition/removal of religious expression from the public sphere) was the Jacobins and their views, even if Napoleon walked it back a fair way with the Concordat and it was only officially and legally instated in 1905. You can hardly say that Robespierre was somehow not an enlightenment radical or advocating secularism just because he and his fellows killed people and other enlightenment figures disagreed with them. Their anticlerical views were absolutely a product of their secularism (or part and parcel), and it informed their actions.
You can hardly just blame the drive for power or wealth for all the anticlerical actions, as the nuns they killed had neither. Likewise it wouldn't explain the destruction of religious art and icons.

 

[mmafan2000]

Are you so certain?

Evolutionary science can explain the validity of genocide, eugenics and all sorts of immoral behavior.

Christianity, even with its flaws, is holding the moral line for humanity in the west.

I disagree. Have you read the bible? It's quite immoral with incest, slavery, mass murder, intolerance. Quite a violent fantasy novel. Not to mention Christianity and Islams past actions during the middle ages. Islam is still trapped in the middle ages. I am hard pressed to believe religion is the bastion of man-made morality. Why is it that secular nations have a better standard of living and religions people are trying to flee their religious countries for those places?

 

[Yagadot]

 

[Striderxdj]

Looks like we can now add secularism to the words/groups used interchangeably by partisan hacks with

Marxism, Communism, Lberalism, Leftism, Atheism, Globalism, Naziism, Antifa and BLM...

 

[Striderxdj]

I disagree. Have you read the bible? It's quite immoral with incest, slavery, mass murder, intolerance. Quite a violent fantasy novel. Not to mention Christianity and Islams past actions during the middle ages. Islam is still trapped in the middle ages. I am hard pressed to believe religion is the bastion of man-made morality. Why is it that secular nations have a better standard of living and religions people are trying to flee their religious countries for those places?

You're supposed to ignore the nordic countries, they're "not really secular" and "not really socialist" despite being exactly what people who want both are referring to

 

[Fox by the Sea]

how can she slap?

 

[mmafan2000]

You're supposed to ignore the nordic countries, they're "not really secular" and "not really socialist" despite being exactly what people who want both are referring to

I don't know much about Nordic countries, but I know everyone who tries to make a point uses them for their own gain whether right or wrong, lol. I refrain from using them out of ignorance. But I do know it's better to live there than most places.

 

[Prefect]

https://imgflip.com/i/4kn094

 

[SanchoMF]

pas mal. qui aurait pensé que ce petit mec aurait le courage de dénoncer la barbarie islamique en France. Je suis surpris et impressionné.

Honnêtement, moi aussi. Je ne savais pas que le mec avait des couilles..
Imagine my shock!

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

pas mal. qui aurait pensé que ce petit mec aurait le courage de dénoncer la barbarie islamique en France. Je suis surpris et impressionné.

Tu es français ??????????

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Man, I am glad Europe has to deal with figuring that shit out. Good luck.

You are happy that people are being beheaded?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Tu es français ??????????

haha non mais j'aime parfois pratiquer mon français sur le forum d'autant plus qu'il y a apparemment beaucoup de locuteurs natifs autour. et maintenant avec la France faisant l'objet de l'actualité, pourquoi pas?

so, yeah.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

It’s a shit response.

If he had any sense he would go all in with French nationalists and at least have someone on his side.

Instead. He appears to be alienating both nationalists and Islamists and he is all alone in the middle.

He needs to pick a lane.

Most people are somewhere in the middle. It isn't clearly divided into nationalist vs muslim camps.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I am French and not fundamentally a Macron supporter, more of a Macron critic in fact.
But damn I am proud of his declarations in the past weeks.
Standing up for enlightenment ideals in the face of brutal & relentless Muslim terrorism is to be admired.
Whilst nearly all other Western leaders including Trudeau refuse to stand for the ideals of freedom like cowards.


Indeed, secularism is quite a leap away from State communism and the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Honestly I hate Macron for being generally pretty weak shit but even then, please do not disrespect his name by putting him in the same sentence as Trudeau, who is an absolute embarassement and a fraud.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

haha non mais j'aime parfois pratiquer mon français sur le forum d'autant plus qu'il y a apparemment beaucoup de locuteurs natifs autour. et maintenant avec la France faisant l'objet de l'actualité, pourquoi pas?

so, yeah.

Dude your French is near native level, where are you from ? You don't get to write like that with a few classes in college.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

It’s a shit response.

If he had any sense he would go all in with French nationalists and at least have someone on his side.

Instead. He appears to be alienating both nationalists and Islamists and he is all alone in the middle.

He needs to pick a lane.

A shit response would be "We're so sorry. This country is Islamaphobic to the core. To protect the poor, marginalized Muslims, we are officially implementing hate speech laws. Going forward, you will no longer to ever be able to speak hate in the name in Islam."

...you know....like Trudeau did. THAT would be a terrible response and one I expect to come eventually when they realize they can't defeat an ideology and more attacks happen. I hope he fights back but in the era of wokeness, he has a seemingly unwinnable challenge.