*Machida vindicates TMA (Karate)*

[Lanshire]

No, I mean the roundhouse thrown last night.
I also have no idea what you're talking about in your Franklin reference, no one ever KO'd franklin with a front kick/teep/mai thai/my girl...whatever you're heart desires to call it.
You do understand what the front of the body is right?


You named 3 kicks out of 100's of thousands of dumb, useless, nevagannawork techniques such as this guy.




I wont argue that some techniques from TMA are incredible and if worked on and practiced thousands of times they would be great tools in a fighters repertoire.
But...this vindication is nonsense.


Machida is not doing Karate, Machida is doing MMA.

You really should just shut up now. You're ignorance is showing.

 

[Jukai]

On the other hand, Ryan Jimmo's karate broke his own foot

 

[Sansara]

I just going to leave this here because Filho was a monster

 

[Flexwave2003]

There is room for many traditional styles of martial arts in mixed martial arts. We could eventually see a number of practitioners utilize styles from Japan, China etc. if these fighters are able to learn other styles which are commonly seen in today's mma competition.

What is going to be an issue is finding gyms which will cater to these styles without discouraging the practitioners to do away with the Karate, Kung Fu etc. and pick up more traditional methodologies of mixed martial arts.

A very skilled Kung Fu fighter who actually utilizes the techniques from his style would be quite interesting to see if he learned some take down defense and familiarized himself with wrestling, submission grappling etc. in order to be proficient enough to handle his or her self anywhere the fight goes.

I think it can be done, but it will take the right practitioner with the right training regiment to pull it off. Machida is one example, I would like to see more cross over myself.

 

[Jukai]

And Machida`s KO kick against Couture is another karate basic kick called "mae geri" (front kick):

Actually, Machida's KO against Couture is a "Mae Tobi Geri" and it is in the original form of Kanku-dai (not the ridiculous double front kick people do nowadays).

 

[Nicslagan]

No, I mean the roundhouse thrown last night.
I also have no idea what you're talking about in your Franklin reference, no one ever KO'd franklin with a front kick/teep/mai thai/my girl...whatever you're heart desires to call it.
You do understand what the front of the body is right?


You named 3 kicks out of 100's of thousands of dumb, useless, nevagannawork techniques such as this guy.




I wont argue that some techniques from TMA are incredible and if worked on and practiced thousands of times they would be great tools in a fighters repertoire.
But...this vindication is nonsense.


Machida is not doing Karate, Machida is doing MMA.

Machida is using Karate in an MMA fight.

Dillman is equal to a Televangelist except Karate is part of his religion. Notice he mentions that he is skilled at touching the third eye. The third eye is your mind. I believe that there could be some people that would fall over or faint from believing what he's saying. I am not one of them.

It makes me laugh but this one thing Dillman shows is not a representation of TMA. It is a trick. He can teach you how to trick someone's mind using bs. He knows how to defend himself and I am familiar with his legit techniques and have seen his bs too.

He's not going to try this in a real fight. He knows it's bs.

 

[Sansara]

And i also have to say that it is almost impossible to make shotokan work in a smaller enviroment ( a ring, for example) and with bigger gloves.

Shotokan philosophy is about getting that one perfect hit to ko your opponent, it also involves staying the hell away from your opponent striking distance. In a ring where you dont have much space to move, and with bigger gloves where blocking a shot is much more easy Shotokan would have a hard time being sucessfull.

Now in a cage where you have a lot of room to maneuver and with a small glove where it is really hard to block Shotokan can work. In fact, a lot of fighters could benefit taking a little Shotokan to improve their stand up game. But it is hard to have the patience to endure kata training and other traditional training tools.

 

[XenonRadon]

Machida is using Karate in an MMA fight.

Dillman is equal to a Televangelist except Karate is part of his religion. Notice he mentions that he is skilled at touching the third eye. The third eye is your mind. I believe that there could be some people that would fall over or faint from believing what he's saying. I am not one of them.

It makes me laugh but this one thing Dillman shows is not a representation of TMA. It is a trick. He can teach you how to trick someone's mind using bs. He knows how to defend himself and I am familiar with his legit techniques and have seen his bs too.

He's not going to try this in a real fight. He knows it's bs.

Training methods, techniques, and philosophy are the characteristics that define a martial art.

Machida's training methods are primarily MMA, and his striking technique is hybrid karate/MMA. As I posted earlier, his KO of Munoz was a hybrid mawashi-geri and dutch-style Muay Thai kick. It was not a pure karate kick, nor are most of his techniques.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

meh that kind of point sparring/ light contact stuff is not "traditional" at all. It is watered downs stuff brought to USA.

The real "traditional" style of fighting is the kind of Judo used by KImura used to defeat Gracie. That style focused heavily on ground fighting and submissions, but had some strikes too.

Judo is actually older than Karate and incorporated strikes early on. But once WW2 came and Judo became an Olympic sport the ground fighting and submissions became less important.

part of this was to reduce injuries of course, and to appeal to kids.

The kata are good excersize . It is similar to shadowboxing. Alkso useful if you want to fight someone with a sword lols

 

[Konighter]

Training methods, techniques, and philosophy are the characteristics that define a martial art.

Machida's training methods are primarily MMA, and his striking technique is hybrid karate/MMA. As I posted earlier, his KO of Munoz was a hybrid mawashi-geri and dutch-style Muay Thai kick. It was not a pure karate kick, nor are most of his techniques.

IT WAS NOT! It's a mawashi geri! I do it every freaking practice. I knew it right away. Don't start bringing MT to this. Seems like you are a MT "nuthugger"... I mean MT is super strong but what Machida does and did last night it's karate. The way he strikes, kicks, defends takedowns and his stance is KARATE. Believe me, I know. It's not required that every fighter need to have MT to be good.

 

[Nerdslayer]

Such a fan boy to Karate and Taekwondo, too bad most dojo's now days are mcdojos. Such a good thing to put a kid in at a young age, then if they want to do something tougher than can always try some kickboxing or muay thai.

 

[OldManGrip]

IT WAS NOT! It's a mawashi geri! I do it every freaking practice. I knew it right away. Don't start bringing MT to this. Seems like you are a MT "nuthugger"... I mean MT is super strong but what Machida does and did last night it's karate. The way he strikes, kicks, defends takedowns and his stance is KARATE. Believe me, I know. It's not required that every fighter need to have MT to be good.

It is used in both styles. Machida trains karate, so yes it is a karate kick. I trained karate since like 7 and that kick was learned right away. See the pivot , machida has great technique

 

[XenonRadon]

meh that kind of point sparring/ light contact stuff is not "traditional" at all. It is watered downs stuff brought to USA.

It depends what you mean by 'traditional.' In the strict sense of the word, boxing, wrestling and Muay Thai are probably the most traditional martial arts. But they are not included in discussions of TMA. Why is that? Because the phrase TMA actually means something other than being old or having a strong cultural heritage. It is generally used to denote eastern martial arts as popularly practiced in the west in the 70s through the 1990s. Most of these styles (including Shotokan and TKD) are actually not very old -- dating back to around the 1930s.

If you took a survey of schools promoting themselves as traditional martial arts, I am very confidant you would see more light/no-contact un-padded sparring than in schools that do not promote themselves as traditional. Do you agree?

The real "traditional" style of fighting is the kind of Judo used by KImura used to defeat Gracie. That style focused heavily on ground fighting and submissions, but had some strikes too.

Again, what does 'real "traditional'" mean? I would argue that Kano's changes to Jujutsu to create Judo (from which BJJ was derived) was one of the most significant moves away from (what are commonly referred to as) TMA. Judo was a proven effective combat sport & martial art from the start, I wouldn't include it in the list of TMAs that needed vindication after failure in NHB/MMA/Vale Tudo. It always did moderately well.

Judo is actually older than Karate and incorporated strikes early on. But once WW2 came and Judo became an Olympic sport the ground fighting and submissions became less important.

Indeed, Judo is older than most karate styles including Shotokan. But age isn't generally considered when determining whether an art is traditional. Boxing & wrestling are as old as sports get.

part of this was to reduce injuries of course, and to appeal to kids.

And this was Kano's genius. By training in a way that you can go all-out without causing injuries, your actual fighting ability increases dramatically compared with training dangerous techniques without full resistance & competition. This is in my opinion, the key difference between TMAs (JJJ, most karate, Wing Chun, Wushu, etc.) and non-TMAs (Wrestling, Judo, BJJ, submission grappling, Muay Thai, Sanda, etc.)

The kata are good excersize . It is similar to shadowboxing. Alkso useful if you want to fight someone with a sword lols

Personally, I don't think they are a very good exercise. Better than nothing, but rife with problems compared with other training methods. I would bet on a fighter with 1 year of wrestling over one with 10 years of kata practice any day.

 

[aRtFuL]

I think people generally trash on TKD and karate because the traditional method of training requires the learner a longer learning time for the art to be effective competitively.

MT and wrestling are based more on basic, aggressive technique and fitness and therefore fits more into the competitive sports mindset.

TKD, karate and other traditional martial arts requires a more total understanding of the kinetics and the dynamics of the body movement and thus requires significantly more training time. Most McDojos out there don't really give you that in depth knowledge.

 

[XenonRadon]

It is used in both styles. Machida trains karate, so yes it is a karate kick. I trained karate since like 7 and that kick was learned right away. See the pivot , machida has great technique

Actually it's a hybrid kick. The way he steps forward first with his lead foot already turned out is a dutch-style Muay Thai technique, not karate. Striking with the shin is generally not taught in karate either.

 

[OldManGrip]

It depends what you mean by 'traditional.' In the strict sense of the word, boxing, wrestling and Muay Thai are probably the most traditional martial arts. But they are not included in discussions of TMA. Why is that? Because the phrase TMA actually means something other than being old or having a strong culteral heritage. It is generally used to denote eastern martial arts as popularly practiced in the west in the 70s through the 1990s. Most of these styles (including Shotokan and TKD) are actually not very old -- dating back to around the 1930s.

If you took a survey of schools promoting themselves as traditional martial arts, I am very confidant you would see more light/no-contact un-padded sparring than in schools that do not promote themselves as traditional. Do you agree?



Again, what does 'real "traditional'" mean? I would argue that Kano's changes to Jujutsu to create Judo (from which BJJ was derived) was one of the most significant moves away from (what are commonly referred to as) TMA. Judo was a proven effective combat sport & martial art from the start, I wouldn't include it in the list of TMAs that needed vindication after failure in NHB/MMA/Vale Tudo. It always did moderately well.



Indeed, Judo is older than most karate styles including Shotokan. But age isn't generally considered when determining whether an art is traditional. Boxing & wrestling are as old as sports get.



And this was Kano's genius. By training in a way that you can go all-out without causing injuries, your actual fighting ability increases dramatically compared with training dangerous techniques without full resistance & competition. This is in my opinion, the key difference between TMAs (JJJ, most karate, Wing Chun, Wushu, etc.) and non-TMAs (Wrestling, Judo, BJJ, submission grappling, Muay Thai, Sanda, etc.)



Personally, I don't think they are a very good exercise. Better than nothing, but rife with problems compared with other training methods. I would bet on a fighter with 1 year of wrestling over one with 10 years of kata practice any day.

haha, well of course. In my experience, the katas were more balance and mental training. They don't really help you fight as a lot are done in slow motion.

 

[OldManGrip]

Actually it's a hybrid kick. The way he steps forward first with his lead foot already turned out is a dutch-style Muay Thai technique, not karate. Striking with the shin is generally not taught in karate either.

It was taught that way to me by stephen thompson's father ray. I think it varies by style and origin and by who teaches you.

 

[mrsinister]

Because exceptions prove rules.

 

[Sansara]

haha, well of course. In my experience, the katas were more balance and mental training. They don't really help you fight as a lot are done in slow motion.

Not only that. Katas build a lot of strength in the legs ( off course there are better and more pragmatic ways of achieving the same thing). When i started weight lifting i was astonished at how easy it was for me to do leg exercises ( squats, leg presses, leg curls,etc), and all that strength had come from staying long period of times holding those stances.

 

[Konighter]

Actually it's a hybrid kick. The way he steps forward first with his lead foot already turned out is a dutch-style Muay Thai technique, not karate. Striking with the shin is generally not taught in karate either.

IT'S NOT A HYBRID KICK FFS! It's a mawashi geri, omg! Don't you understand? MMA does NOT revolve around MT and wrestling!