*Machida vindicates TMA (Karate)*

[mrsinister]

He's shown that with the right skill set and athleticism, the footwork and attacks of competition karate can be modified for MMA. But he hasn't vindicated katas or anything like that.

 

[OldManGrip]

IT'S NOT A HYBRID KICK FFS! It's a mawashi geri, omg! Don't you understand? MMA does NOT revolve around MT and wrestling!

I know I learned that kick from a karate expert. So to me it is karate. Whether it originated from thai boxing I don't know. All I know is I throw it the same way and call it a karate kick.....

 

[ShindoNinja]

Most martial arts have something to offer. Its more about the training method that makes it fight effective.

All that being said BJJ is a Traditional Martial Art - The sparring style of training makes it effective. Same with Judo, MT, Boxing etc. Kyokoshin Karate has also proven effective because of the training.

The arts where sparring is discouraged or not practiced altogether are the ones that delude themselves into thinking they are effective (Aikido etc).

 

[Irenaeus]

Judo has been considered worthwhile for MMAs entire existence.

Also, can we stop using the term TMA? It's completely meaningless. All of the "practical" sports which are the pillars of MMA have pretty old tradition, and MT is asian as well, if you happen to be of the rather strange opinion that western martial arts don't count.

The dichotomy is between training with aliveness or not, not TMA vs MMA, and this dichotomy doesn't even follow the arts nicely. A karate dojo with an emphasis on sparring and training for full-contact matches with relatively few rules restrictions will produce good fighters, a karate dojo without any sparring, and with a point-fighting or kata focus will not. Machida doesn't do shit to vindicate the second group, nor does he do anything to vindicate Tai Chi, Aikido or Systema.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

It depends what you mean by 'traditional.' In the strict sense of the word, boxing, wrestling and Muay Thai are probably the most traditional martial arts. But they are not included in discussions of TMA.


Indeed, Judo is older than most karate styles including Shotokan. But age isn't generally considered when determining whether an art is traditional. Boxing & wrestling are as old as sports get.



Personally, I don't think they are a very good exercise. Better than nothing, but rife with problems compared with other training methods. I would bet on a fighter with 1 year of wrestling over one with 10 years of kata practice any day.

I put traditional in quotes for a reason. Its kind of a silly way to describe things I agree. What are called TMA's in this forum are actually fairly recent. I never know if people include judo when they use the term TMA or not.

The point of my post was to say that Judo is time tested and totally awesome. People should not discount it because it was devised in the 19th / early 20th century.

As for kata, i meant it makes you sweat and gets the blood pumping. i do kata pretty fast so it is slightly more demanding than it might be for others. I only do it when I don't have someone to throw.

 

[Clock_Choke**]

I don't think too many people denied that what people call the TMAs have individual elements that can usefully applied to MMA, or that various pockets of TMAs train in more practical and rigorous ways.

The issue is how useful training in TMAs is relative to the boxing/MT/BJJ/Wrestling arts (usually), because resources are scare and you can't devote time to all of them, all the way, 100 percent.

 

[Konighter]

He's shown that with the right skill set and athleticism, the footwork and attacks of competition karate can be modified for MMA. But he hasn't vindicated katas or anything like that.

True.
Also katas are a more spiritual thing. It's like your practicing the moves against oponents in your mind. Personally, I do it with my eyes closed. It's good for your spirit. It's not a fighting method, sometimes people get that wrong.

 

[Flexwave2003]

He's shown that with the right skill set and athleticism, the footwork and attacks of competition karate can be modified for MMA. But he hasn't vindicated katas or anything like that.

Kata serve a few different purposes, from putting techniques together to teaching practitioners to move, behave and react in a manner consistent within the style itself.

 

[Konighter]

I know I learned that kick from a karate expert. So to me it is karate. Whether it originated from thai boxing I don't know. All I know is I throw it the same way and call it a karate kick.....

It did not originated from thai boxing. It is one of the basic original karate kicks as you may know. Of course other martial arts have very similar kicks and some people tend to assume it's MT or something like that because of MT reputation, specially around Sherdog.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

The problem with Aikido in most dojos is they don't hit each other. They also don't do Judo or bjj. I think of Aikido as being an upper level element of Judo.



Same thing can be said for Gracie Comabtives and Krav Maga. Those styles are advertised as being " super deadly" but unless you know other techniques or actually hit each other they won't do you any good.

 

[Jukai]

I know I learned that kick from a karate expert. So to me it is karate. Whether it originated from thai boxing I don't know. All I know is I throw it the same way and call it a karate kick.....

In fairness, it is KIND of a hybrid kick in that it wasn't totally chambered, and it was a little bit more hip and a little bit less quad. That being said, it was much more Karate than it was Muay Thai, the leg was stiff, a lot of power came from the quad and it was snapped and brought back into place instead of going through the target.

Stepping into the kick isn't a Muay Thai thing, it's a getting distance thing.

 

[RedDevilFedor]

Machida's stance is very unique.

 

[Irenaeus]

The problem with Aikido in most dojos is they don't hit each other.

I'm not in full agreement here. The problem of Aikido is that they usually don't even practice their throws and locks with much resistance, which also has resulted in them focusing almost exclusively on low percentage judo techniques, due to the lack of the immediate feedback of randori.

 

[mrsinister]

lol. The problem with Aikido is Aikido.

 

[Jocke]

I think the problem people have with TMA is that its full of useless shit, that doesnt mean everything is useless shit.

TMA as a base is a given really, it's not like Muay Thai isnt a TMA in itself and people do that shit all the time as a striking base for MMA.

Generally speaking, any non-sparring TMA is most likely shit for MMA.

 

[Konighter]

In fairness, it is KIND of a hybrid kick in that it wasn't totally chambered, and it was a little bit more hip and a little bit less quad. That being said, it was much more Karate than it was Muay Thai, the leg was stiff, a lot of power came from the quad and it was snapped and brought back into place instead of going through the target.

Stepping into the kick isn't a Muay Thai thing, it's a getting distance thing.

A lot of the power in a karate kick comes from the hip.

 

[bub**]

I love these stupid names for basic attacks.

"He dropped Thiago Silva with a straight left, or an Awikinijawa-tipperamitsu dajjishiyuana."

 

[Flexwave2003]

I love these stupid names for basic attacks.

"He dropped Thiago Silva with a straight left, or an Awikinijawa-tipperamitsu dajjishiyuana."

lol those stupid names could also be referred to as the traditional, Japanese pronunciation. I can see where you're coming from, but many of these techniques are over a hundred years old or far older in some cases and are referred to in this way even here in the states for tradition, respect etc. to the nation of origin.

 

[Jukai]

A lot of the power in a karate kick comes from the hip.

Not anywhere near as much as the thai kick

 

[ocfightfan]

Yes it's true. As long as a guy trains properly and modifies his game by adapting techniques and cross-trains other disciplines TMA can be a big part of MMA.