Luke Rockhold: "UFC hype machine discredited Strikeforce"

[Arkain2K]

Nobody discredited Strikeforce, it was simply a newer and smaller organization.

Apparently, sometimes people from other dimensions slips into our own without realizing it.

 

[Mikedh]

So what if Zuffa owned it? A Strikeforce bout is still a Strikeforce bout. Jacare and Kennedy from Strikeforce are still better than most of the UFC division back then And Today!

That isn't what Luke is talking about though. He is talking about the Strikeforce where he fought cans on Challangers shows that Coker ran. The UFC gave him Vitor in his first UFC fight in a main event so obviously they respected him.

Luke was a legit prospect but he had yet to beat anyone before working for Zuffa.

 

[Defeat Unknown]

Strikeforce had a lot of great talent but their divisions didn't have many fighters. The top Strikeforce guys are still top guys.

 

[Mikedh]

Strikeforce had a lot of great talent but their divisions didn't have many fighters. The top Strikeforce guys are still top guys.

Correct. People knew Jake Shields was a top guy at mw, they knew Dan Henderson was a top guy at lhw, they knew Gilbert/Josh were top guys in the lw division. They knew they had several top hws there near the end.

The problem was a lot of divisions didn't have depth. They didn't have many contenders so pretty much every non-HW or non-championship fight was a mismatch to keep the few guys near the top or some random catchweight fight because they didn't have anything else.

But we were supposed to know that Challanges Luke Rockhold and .500 Robbie Lawler were top guys? Hindsight is 20/20, you have to put yourself back then.

 

[Defeat Unknown]

Here is the UFC MW top ten without the Strikeforce guys

C. Chris Weidman
1. Vitor Belfort
2. Lyoto Machida
3. Michael Bisping
4. Thales Leites
5. CB Dollaway
6. Robert Whitaker
7. Roan Carneiro
8. Tim Boetsch
9. Josh Samman
10. Rafael Natal

Had to use other sites for after #8. Without the SF guys, that is one sorry top ten. I bet if SF were still around, people would think Tim Boetsch is on-par with Luke Rockhold.

Makes me wonder how the Bellator guys would do in the UFC.

Before the Strikeforce merger, MW was the absolute worst division in the UFC. It's now arguably the best. Anderson Silva has a great legacy because all the best MWs weren't in the UFC.

 

[gohard305]

I never did. I knew Strikeforce talent was legit. Casual fans sure, but not people who know whats up.

 

[Klippy]

Anderson Silva has a great legacy because all the best MWs weren't in the UFC.

At the time that's was the best the UFC could do and IMO the HW division was probably the worst. You can't blame Anderson for the division not being as good as it is now. Silva did fight some of the best MWs in the world btw do some research.

 

[Prince Nephilim]

I don't like what the ufc hype machine is doing to Rhonda

 

[Defeat Unknown]

I don't like what the ufc hype machine is doing to Rhonda

I disagree. He beat the "best" in the UFC MW division at that time. He also beat a lot of guys who had no business being in a title match, like Patrick Cote, Travis Lutter, Thales Leites.

Okami, Henderson, Sonnen and Franklin were top competition and he deserves credit for those wins.

 

[MuyThaiElbows]

Before the Strikeforce merger, MW was the absolute worst division in the UFC. It's now arguably the best. Anderson Silva has a great legacy because all the best MWs weren't in the UFC.

The LW division and the lower weight classes needed the merger more than anything. The merger beefs up the roster and made every division better, but the best of the best competes in the UFC.

Anderson had to face real threats during his reign at 185. He just made it look easy.

Rich Franklin 2x??
Vitor??

 

[Prince Nephilim]

I disagree. He beat the "best" in the UFC MW division at that time. He also beat a lot of guys who had no business being in a title match, like Patrick Cote, Travis Lutter, Thales Leites.

Okami, Henderson, Sonnen and Franklin were top competition and he deserves credit for those wins.

Who? Anderson Silva? He is a legend and MW goat.

 

[Ironmonger]

Luke is right

 

[Klippy]

I disagree. He beat the "best" in the UFC MW division at that time. He also beat a lot of guys who had no business being in a title match, like Patrick Cote, Travis Lutter, Thales Leites.

Okami, Henderson, Sonnen and Franklin were top competition and he deserves credit for those wins.

In all fairness Cote and Leites had 5 fight winning streaks prior to fighting Silva. The Lutter fight wasn't a title fight Lutter couldn't make weight. Lutter ended getting the title shot because he had won TUF 4 just like Serra got the title shot against GSP.

When Anderson was in his winning ways there weren't any Rockhold's or Jacare's at that time. I'm talking about 2007-2008 those guys only had 1-5 pro fights at the time. Weidman had his first pro fight in 2009 which is crazy.

 

[Shaddows]

They didn't have a better division when he signed if you look at in through 2009 glasses. They had Werdum who had just been KTFO by a noob (JDS), Arlovski who just lost to someone that wasn't ranked and Rogers who had never beat anyone in the top 50 outside of his KO of Andrei.

I am not sure what Luke is really saying, his best win before he worked for Zuffa was Paul Bradley. It wasn't like everyone knew he was one of the best middleweights ever then.

Are you crazy?
They had Josh Barnett, Kharitonov, DC, Overeem, Werdum, Arlovski, BFS...

who did UFC had at that time?? Cain (not yet the champion), Carwin (a part time fighter), Lesnar (Not MMA fighter)....
Sorry bud, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Take only the Grand Prix, and it was already much more worthy to go to SF than to join the UFC (at that time).

The problem was: Fedor lost, then BFS lost to a replacement, and then SF lost steam. I believe that, if Fedor would have won (until the finals), SF would have been able to beat the UFC (for that time), and history would be completely different then.

But with Fedor loss, this Grand Prix lost stream and the loss of revenue made them sell out to Zuffa.

 

[Mikedh]

Are you crazy?
They had Josh Barnett, Kharitonov, DC, Overeem, Werdum, Arlovski, BFS...

who did UFC had at that time?? Cain (not yet the champion), Carwin (a part time fighter), Lesnar (Not MMA fighter)....
Sorry bud, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Take only the Grand Prix, and it was already much more worthy to go to SF than to join the UFC (at that time).

The problem was: Fedor lost, then BFS lost to a replacement, and then SF lost steam. I believe that, if Fedor would have won (until the finals), SF would have been able to beat the UFC (for that time), and history would be completely different then.

But with Fedor loss, this Grand Prix lost stream and the loss of revenue made them sell out to Zuffa.

They didn't have Sergei and Barnett in 2009. Overeem was competing in Japan and had zero top ten victories at that point. Bigfoots biggest win was a SD over old/fat Ricco. Arlovski and Werdum had been knocked out by unranked fighters in the first round around the time Fedor signed.

This is what I am referring to with revisionist history. According to people here everyone who ever fought even one fight in Strikeforce (even under Zuffaforce) is forever a Strikeforce guy and they always had the roster they did.

People who actually watched Strikeforce as it was happening remember I am sure.

 

[Shaddows]

They didn't have Sergei and Barnett in 2009. Overeem was competing in Japan and had zero top ten victories at that point. Bigfoots biggest win was a SD over old/fat Ricco. Arlovski and Werdum had been knocked out by unranked fighters in the first round around the time Fedor signed.

This is what I am referring to with revisionist history. According to people here everyone who ever fought even one fight in Strikeforce (even under Zuffaforce) is forever a Strikeforce guy and they always had the roster they did.

People who actually watched Strikeforce as it was happening remember I am sure.

No, you are mistaken.
AO was fighting in Japan, but he was SF's HW. They allowed him to fight in Dream. But he belonged to SF.
As soon as they announced Fedor, the tourney was announced. At that time, they had everyone.
AO left the tourney as Fedor lost to BFS, but by then Fedor had lost to Werdum already and the myth was done.

Revisionist history is now trying to discredit the fact that all SF's HW had better name than what Zuffa could present to Fedor.
Heck, the best competition they had for Fedor was Lesnar! :redface:

 

[Mikedh]

No, you are mistaken.
AO was fighting in Japan, but he was SF's HW. They allowed him to fight in Dream. But he belonged to SF.
As soon as they announced Fedor, the tourney was announced. At that time, they had everyone.
AO left the tourney as Fedor lost to BFS, but by then Fedor had lost to Werdum already and the myth was done.

Revisionist history is now trying to discredit the fact that all SF's HW had better name than what Zuffa could present to Fedor.
Heck, the best competition they had for Fedor was Lesnar! :redface:

Had not fought in Strikeforce for a long time and won the belt in a shit tourney and Fedor would not fight him. Overeem had zero victories in the top ten and that was Fedor's camp reasoning for not fighting him

If you were actually watching Strikeforce at the time when Fedor signed the only top ten guys they had were Arlovski (who Fedor just beat) and Rogers (who has one victory over someone in the top fifty). Werdum was a fringe top ten guy after losing to an unranked fighter. Bigfoot had no quality victories. Sergei and Josh were not signed.

You are referring to the tourney they announced in 2011. The poster I was commenting on was saying Fedor signed there because they had the best heavyweights...but you have to look at it like its 2009.