Losing performances that were better than Colby's

[C0NCH3TO]

Colby is a damn good fighter despite being an asshat. That said, I just can’t consider a fight to be “competitive” if you get your jaw broken and the ref saves you from further punishment. It was a ref stoppage, Usman tko’d Colby. Just like with Coner vs Poirier, I don’t buy the “ was winning until he lost” bs. If someone stops you with strikes, he beat you ….plain and simple. An early stoppage, split decision or even a ud (in some cases) could be considered controversial and competitive. Not the case with Colby vs Usman, though.

 

[chiefwiggum]

Huh

doomsday killed Superman in the 90s bro. Literally.

 

[ticho123]

Defended twice against the same opponent, you might class that as a defence, but we all know it was a pad. Burns fair enough, he deserved it, but lets face it. Usman knows him inside out, and was always gonna be a win for him. Regardless if Burns rocked him

Knocking out Masvidal is a hell of a lot bigger than beating our current Woodley. Then add beating Masvidal again AND beating Burns. Covington can go on twitter all he wants, fact is he doesn't have a strong claim to a shot even though he did good before he got finished last time.

 

[Lawrence]

The only trend I actually find irritating on this forum is how much has been made of Colby's losing performance against Usman. I'm not a Colby fan and I don't think he deserves the rematch, but honestly that's not why Im bothered. I just find it objectively frustrating that an unprecedented level credit is being given to a decisive loss just because he was competitive at times during the fight. I mean, is the bar really that low? Usually when a loss gets hyped it's because someone was dominating before getting caught with a ko or sub, but the best argument for Colby is that he was even on the scorecards heading into the fifth. HE WASN'T EVEN WINNING BEFORE HE LOST! And don't come at me with that early stoppage shit either. He got consecutively dropped, and even if he could have survived, that would be a 10-8 round and a decisive loss (unless you wanna make the laughable claim that he could of got a finish).

But instead waisting more time explaining why a guy who got tko'd lost a fight, I thought it would be more fun to celebrate more noteworthy losing performances. I'll start with one of my favourites: Rory vs Lawler II.

Rory was well ahead on the scorecards heading into the fifth, having outpointed Robbie in the first, and then battered him in the third and fourth rounds with a series of strikes that would have finished any fighter that didn't have Lawler's inhuman level of durability. And even when Rory did get his face crushed in the last round, he simultaneously tore Robbie's lip open, which would have resulted in a stoppage if Rory had not first succumbed to his own, more extreme level of pain. War Rory, your losing performance against Robbie was legitimately worthy of celebration.

Dana needs to say these words:

“No title shot Colby”

“Fight or quit”

I’ll enjoy watching him, and don’t care about his antics,,,,, but he needs to fight at once or be gone

 

[fullspar]

Knocking out Masvidal is a hell of a lot bigger than beating our current Woodley. Then add beating Masvidal again AND beating Burns. Covington can go on twitter all he wants, fact is he doesn't have a strong claim to a shot even though he did good before he got finished last time.

So where does leave Nate and Leon? Who should get the title shot? Nate cause he lost but wobbled Leon? And Nate is the needle mover and easier fight

 

[Lucas Motta]

Silva vs Sonnen

 

[stereolab]

Gus made a whole career based off of losing performances

 

[BigTruck]

doomsday killed Superman in the 90s bro. Literally.

Means nothing to me. Only doomsday I know is said movie. It was ok but a must watch is you like post apocalyptic movies.

 

[1BadMF]

The official scorecard shows just how close the fight was. One judge had it 3-1 Usman, one had it 3-1 Covington, and one had it 2-2 going into the fifth. Yes, Colby would have lost the last round, but for all anyone knew at the time, he could have been up 3-1 and would have gotten the decision if the ref had let the fight go on.

That's cool, thanks. Where did you find that?

 

[1BadMF]

Why should he? His post was completely in keeping with the TS's example:

Since getting finished isn't a deal breaker for having your performance celebrated, why should @1BadMF re-examine his statement? He is saying that the TS is understating Colby's performance (who won rounds against a guy who rarely loses rounds) while simultaneously honoring another guy's performance who also got finished (against a guy who often loses rounds).

Exactly. I'm not taking away anything from Usman. He's a great fighter and it was a great fight.

 

[Gamer2k4]

That's cool, thanks. Where did you find that?

I just did a Google search for "covington usman scorecard."

 

[Phisher]

Some people had Colby up 3 rounds to 1 going in to the fifth, I thought it was likely 2-2 but Colby had landed many more sig strikes if my memory serves.

I wouldn’t call that a terrible stoppage but I thought it may have been early, he was definitely not KO, and was defending himself.

Strikes that were landing at the end of the fight were to the back of the head, but I realize the refs don’t call that all the time.

Even without the stoppage and if he'd survived to the bell, he got broken in that round, and it would've been a 10-8 for Usman and an MD win on the cards.

 

[Bojka]

Colby had a close fight with someone in his prime who is already in the all time great discussions.

It's pretty rare for someone to do that and that's why the performance is brought up.

 

[SovereignPhantom]

I feel like the points being missed or i missed the point. There are title fights that went to a decision where people argue the results, but that's a completely different category. To me, this thread is about how everyone is using his efforts before getting finished as argument that he should get another shot, as if that had ever mattered. When has that happened where a guy decisively lost a title fight, but people were like, "do it again cuz he did well"?

They lost.

I hate Colby's shtick, I don't find his fighting style appealing, and I think Usman is a phenomenal fighter and champ. All that being said, I think the questionable "foul" when Colby was turning up the pace and the surprisingly entertaining back and forths absolutely make this rematch an interesting one.

I think this version of Usman takes it easily, but just because a professional fighter knocks someone out doesn't mean the fight wasn't a good one or shouldn't be run back. Though I definitely think merit wise, Colby should have to fight another contender first.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I hate Colby's shtick, I don't find his fighting style appealing, and I think Usman is a phenomenal fighter and champ. All that being said, I think the questionable "foul" when Colby was turning up the pace and the surprisingly entertaining back and forths absolutely make this rematch an interesting one.

Oh, I think a rematch is interesting. Hell, I don't even think Colby automatically loses. I just hate that people use that as logic for setting up a rematch when Colby hasn't done shit to deserve it.
-Performance in a first fight doesn't matter. No one should have been clamoring for Weidman to rematch Luke immediately just cuz he did well before he threw that spin kick.
-Potential doesn't matter. A guy who deserves his shot that he'll definitely lose should still get the shot and lose. Whereas a guy who COULD win shouldn't get a shot just cuz of that, they need to actually get the wins. Khaos Williams could knock out Usman, and is a hell of a matchup between power, but everyone and their dog would go "Why the fuck is Khaos Williams fighting for the title?"

I think this version of Usman takes it easily, but just because a professional fighter knocks someone out doesn't mean the fight wasn't a good one or shouldn't be run back. Though I definitely think merit wise, Colby should have to fight another contender first.

Again, I'm not saying Colby will definitely lose, and agree merit wise, which should be the most important factor (but isn't), he needs to do more. And although a knockout doesn't mean a fight wasn't good, it absolutely does mean it shouldn't be run back for a while. That while is dependent on what changed or has been accomplished in the meantime. In this meantime? Very little has been changed or accomplished.

And also, being good is not reason to run it back either. First Wonderboy-Woodley fight was good, second one shat the bed. Ngannou-Lewis was awful, doesn't mean they shouldn't rematch. My issue isn't that people's opinions about Colby in the first fight were wrong, it's that people are using those opinions to justify this rematch, which is something that has no precedent in reason, either from an idealistic or realistic standpoint.

 

[GoshiShun17]

Gus is basically the start of this whole phenomenon.

Chael Sonnen

 

[SovereignPhantom]

Oh, I think a rematch is interesting. Hell, I don't even think Colby automatically loses. I just hate that people use that as logic for setting up a rematch when Colby hasn't done shit to deserve it.
-Performance in a first fight doesn't matter. No one should have been clamoring for Weidman to rematch Luke immediately just cuz he did well before he threw that spin kick.
-Potential doesn't matter. A guy who deserves his shot that he'll definitely lose should still get the shot and lose. Whereas a guy who COULD win shouldn't get a shot just cuz of that, they need to actually get the wins. Khaos Williams could knock out Usman, and is a hell of a matchup between power, but everyone and their dog would go "Why the fuck is Khaos Williams fighting for the title?"

Again, I'm not saying Colby will definitely lose, and agree merit wise, which should be the most important factor (but isn't), he needs to do more. And although a knockout doesn't mean a fight wasn't good, it absolutely does mean it shouldn't be run back for a while. That while is dependent on what changed or has been accomplished in the meantime. In this meantime? Very little has been changed or accomplished.

And also, being good is not reason to run it back either. First Wonderboy-Woodley fight was good, second one shat the bed. Ngannou-Lewis was awful, doesn't mean they shouldn't rematch. My issue isn't that people's opinions about Colby in the first fight were wrong, it's that people are using those opinions to justify this rematch, which is something that has no precedent in reason, either from an idealistic or realistic standpoint.

Oh, I completely agree there are way better ways to decide on the next title contender than who had a good fight with the champ in recent years even though they got finished. Unfortunately I've given up on the UFC as a merit based organization and welterweight in particular is a bit of a shit show, kinda like how lightweight was for a while but even more puzzling since the champ has actually been active. But yeah, right now I'd say if it were up to me, some combo of Leon, Colby, and Wonderboy if he gets through Burns would fight for a number one contender fight.

That being said, I'm also not a fan of shelving a champ who wants to fight. I hated the actual Izzy-Romero fight but given that Costa couldn't fight and Izzy wanted to, why not give him what seemed like the most intriguing fight in the top 5 at the time? In this case, I'd say only Leon has a slightly better case for the title shot if Usman wants a fight ASAP, and that fight intrigues me significantly less than a Colby rematch.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

That being said, I'm also not a fan of shelving a champ who wants to fight. I hated the actual Izzy-Romero fight but given that Costa couldn't fight and Izzy wanted to, why not give him what seemed like the most intriguing fight in the top 5 at the time? In this case, I'd say only Leon has a slightly better case for the title shot if Usman wants a fight ASAP, and that fight intrigues me significantly less than a Colby rematch.

True that. Divisions should always be booked from the champ, down. Not up towards the champ. The champ fights when the champ can fight, and everyone else should get in line. If the division is being booked correctly, this should mostly result in top contenders doing enough to get the title, but sometimes it's just more a case of, "Who is the closest person still standing?"

Welterweight, right now, is one of the worst booked divisions in the longest fucking time. I had broken down in another post (before Wonderboy-Burns was scheduled) about how many fights there were, or were booked, among the current top 5 in every division, and WW was the only one without fights booked, and their last and only fight was Wonderboy vs Masvidal years ago. Also, when was the last time they had anything resembling an eliminator, where either competitor could get a title shot off a win? Colby should have fought Woodley after beating RDA, but Usman leapfrogged him, and the division has been picking at scraps for contenders ever since. MAYBE Woodley would have got a rematch if he beat Burns impressively so at least Burns was arguably all right, but the truth is that him, Colby, and Jorge should have been fighting each other to get the shot, but they didn't. And the same can be said now with Colby, Edwards, and Wonderboy. And we know what problems are the common denominator here. Colby, and the UFC for allowing it.

 

[junebug]

Mads Burnell X Arnold Allen

 

[r-harper-1]

Kz vs Rodriguez