Lorenzo destroying FPWs (Fighter Pay Warriors)

[Rematch]

Their revenue is much more but the NFL split yearly revenue evenly between all 32 teams. I think the Packers made the most last year with like just over 350 million. The Lakers were the NBA's highest revenue team with around 300 million itself. I think the UFC can pay their fighters a bit better than they do now, especially the lower tier fighters.

The NFL doesn't pay the players. The teams do that. Therefore, to compare the UFC to the NFL when it comes to the pay of athletes is categorically erroneous.

 

[KillingJoke]

The NFL doesn't pay the players. The teams do that. Therefore, to compare the UFC to the NFL when it comes to the pay of athletes is categorically erroneous.

I never said the NFL did. I posted the TEAMS revenue.

 

[Rematch]

I never said the NFL did. I posted the TEAMS revenue.

My apologies.

 

[Amygdala]

I'm pretty sure most of the informed fans are aware of this, but here is Lorenzo himself spilling the beans on what the UFC is actually making. According to him 2015 was a record year for the UFC. He said the company generated $600m in revenue in 2015. Lorenzo then goes on to point out that the UFC has to pay for promoting and staging all of their shows. It would be reasonable to assume that about half of all revenue goes to pay for business expenses. That leaves about $300m, or maybe less considering I don't know what the UFC's tax situation is like. If one were being reasonable it would be safe to assume the UFC in their best year made about $250m in pure profit. So when you add that to the fact they pay about $100m in fighter salaries and bonuses every year, it would be fucking mental to claim they aren't paying fighters fairly. So I Hope the FPWs chill out already.

Yeah, no. It's simple math. Look at what management makes. Then look at what the fighters make. Then understand this: no fighters = no events = no fans = no money. Then shut the fuck up.

 

[Rematch]

Yeah, no. It's simple math. Look at what management makes. Then look at what the fighters make. Then understand this: no fighters = no events = no fans = no money. Then shut the fuck up.

That's not math. It's a form of reasoning, but it's not math.

 

[Amygdala]

That's not math. It's a form of reasoning, but it's not math.

It's both. But most definitely math. Look at ratios. If a disproportionate amount of income/profit goes to management over labor, then there's an issue. That issue can be brought to light thanks to math.

 

[Rematch]

It's both. But most definitely math. Look at ratios. If a disproportionate amount of income/profit goes to management over labor, then there's an issue. That issue can be brought to light thanks to math.

Then show me the math.

 

[Reaperman]

If those figures are right, and Dana is making 20 million as thought, that leaves 230 million for Lorenzo. He could afford to pay many fighters more than 20-40 thousand dollars to put their health and future health on the line for our entertainment.....

 

[Rematch]

If those figures are right, and Dana is making 20 million as thought, that leaves 230 million for Lorenzo. He could afford to pay many fighters more than 20-40 thousand dollars to put their health and future health on the line for our entertainment.....

Now there is some math.

 

[Mochan]

MLB, NFL, NBA ... They all have substantial costs including owning freaking stadiums , TV networks and minor league teams and parks. Yet they manage to fairly pay their athletes.

The Fertitas aren't owning anyone but the fighters. But until the fighters stand up and unionize I can't be bothered anymore.

They also generate a ton more revenue than the UFC. Are you retarded?

You just compared the revenue of the UFC to the revenue of the NBA.

 

[SlicerDM]

Show Lorzeno the ratio to rev and payout and then call him a fucking idiot.

 

[greatsantini]

So in other sports NFL, NBA, MLB... after all of the other expenses but before taxes the profit share is between 47-49%. So I'm not sure where you get the $100 from but the fighters should get around 20-40 million more and that's 20-40% more money which really could make a big deal to those eight and eight, sixteen and sixteen, and the twenty and twenty guys. The fact is compared to the leagues they supposedly aspire to be like, they don't share as much. I do think they share more than most promoters do but then again, that's according to your estimates which we'll have to work with since Zuffa keeps closed books. As a privately owned company it's their right to operate like that.

Uh, the split comes from the gross revenue - i.e. before expenses. The athletes are part of the expenses. The owners have to pay for all those other expenses - stadium, practice fields, coaches, staff, travel - out of their split.
The split for athletes pay is lower than the number given though. That split includes the pension payments, 401k and other such benefits.

 

[jeremyemilio]

MLB, NFL, NBA ... They all have substantial costs including owning freaking stadiums , TV networks and minor league teams and parks. Yet they manage to fairly pay their athletes.

The Fertitas aren't owning anyone but the fighters. But until the fighters stand up and unionize I can't be bothered anymore.

Not writing it all out again, but here's an old post of mine done comparing Zuffa to a similar sized pro sports organization (the St Louis Cardinals):

Again, you're just throwing out numbers and guesses.

Here, lets put it this way:

Zuffa has a BB- credit rating with people who AREN'T wildly speculating, but are paid big money to dig into the numbers and figure out what's happening in a company.

That's just below "investment grade" sitting just at the top of the "speculative" grade. That's not for stocks. That's a BOND. The ratings agencies actually believe that LOANING Zuffa money at a set interest rate is a speculative venture. If they're gouging their players and making bank, why do the ratings agencies think loaning them money carries that sort of a risk?

Let's compare them with a successful, but abnormally so, sports team: The St Louis Cardinals (because, hey who doesn't love the old school NL East?).

Cards EBITDA: $73.6 Million
Zuffa EBITDA: $99.2 Million

So after expenses, INCLUDING PLAYER SALARIES, and before taxes and debt payments, Zuffa makes just over $25 Million more than the St Louis Cardinals.

BUT Zuffa has that $25 Million interest payment on their debt, so after that, and after paying everyone else, Zuffa has the same earnings as a single MLB team... and we're not talking about the Yankees, here. This is the St Louis Cardinals.

Now before you call bullshit on the debt thing, YES, the Cardinals have debt as well. But let's take a look at that:

Cards debt: $300 (which includes money owed on a massive asset in their ballpark)
Zuffa Debt: $500 (which includes money owed for the pencil sharpener on Dana's desk)

So, sure, the Cards have a debt payment, too. But once it's paid off, they'll own a ballpark. Zuffa's debt is mostly for things that are long gone.

In terms the average person can understand, that's basically the difference between owing $300,000 on a mortgage for your home and owning $500,000 in credit card debt you've accumulated over the past decade in general living expenses.

What would you do in the second situation? I think I'd go lean and try to pay down that debt above all other considerations.

And, yes, the UFC info I'm using is for 2014 (it's a private company, so it takes some time for this stuff to be gathered together) and yes they had a much better year in 2015. But that's kinda the point. Ronda lost. Conor lost. Things can change in the blink of an eye, and in the meantime there's all that debt to be paid down.

I don't begrudge any fighter a good payday, or even a lucrative one, if they can get it. But it's their job to negotiate for that. And if they sit down at the table and Zuffa says they're asking for more than they're worth, they need to either test that and hold out and shop themselves elsewhere, or they simply need to accept that it may well be true.

Sources:

http://www.zuffainvestoralerts.org/financials/

http://www.forbes.com/teams/st-louis-cardinals/

 

[Mochan]

Not sure why everyone acts like UFC does all the promotion themselves and pay for everything when it's the fighters flying around doing tons of interviews on TV, radio, commercials, and with the MMA media.

Mayweather pays for his own promotion but he gets all of profits more or less and everyone flies out to him.

UFC pays for all the promotional expenses, duh. Including fighter transport cost.

 

[greatsantini]

Looking at those BE financial reports did anon notice how much Zuffa is making?
They paid themselves a special dividend of $269 million in 2007.
In 2009 they sold 10% of the company and made another $200 million.
And between 2005-2011 their retained earnings was $385 million. And remember for this last one this is after taxes and they wouldn't have pay any personal taxes on it because the company is a pass through LLC.

So that's $884 million paid to the owners compared to $250 million for all the fighters during the years 2005-2011.

 

[Coolidge]

Looking at those BE financial reports did anon notice how much Zuffa is making?
They paid themselves a special dividend of $269 million in 2007.
In 2009 they sold 10% of the company and made another $200 million.
And between 2005-2011 their retained earnings was $385 million. And remember for this last one this is after taxes and they wouldn't have pay any personal taxes on it because the company is a pass through LLC.

So that's $884 million paid to the owners compared to $250 million for all the fighters during the years 2005-2011.

What's your point?

 

[greatsantini]

What's your point?

that they're making a lot of money.

 

[Crimson Glory]

Can you offer anything to support the random figures you used?

250 million?
100 million?
Half?

Fucking northern monkeys

This is what I'm wondering?

Where did you get the 100 million dollar pay out number?

 

[groo]

I'm pretty sure most of the informed fans are aware of this, but here is Lorenzo himself spilling the beans on what the UFC is actually making. According to him 2015 was a record year for the UFC. He said the company generated $600m in revenue in 2015. Lorenzo then goes on to point out that the UFC has to pay for promoting and staging all of their shows. It would be reasonable to assume that about half of all revenue goes to pay for business expenses. That leaves about $300m, or maybe less considering I don't know what the UFC's tax situation is like. If one were being reasonable it would be safe to assume the UFC in their best year made about $250m in pure profit. So when you add that to the fact they pay about $100m in fighter salaries and bonuses every year, it would be fucking mental to claim they aren't paying fighters fairly. So I Hope the FPWs chill out already.

Did you FAIL grade 4 math? What is wrong with you? Let's just for the sake of argument go with your imaginary numbers being VALID.

He said the company generated $600m in revenue in 2015. Lorenzo then goes on to point out that the UFC has to pay for promoting and staging all of their shows. It would be reasonable to assume that about half of all revenue goes to pay for business expenses. That leaves about $300m, or maybe less considering I don't know what the UFC's tax situation is like. If one were being reasonable it would be safe to assume the UFC in their best year made about $250m in pure profit.

So when you add that to the fact they pay about $100m in fighter salaries and bonuses every year, it would be fucking mental to claim they aren't paying fighters fairly

600 million Revenue
-Half of Revenue paying for BUSINESS EXPENSES (Fighter SALARY is in here you DUMB ASS!)
======================
250 million in PROFIT

Which is 250 million in PROFIT!! THAT IS AFTER FIGHTER PAY!

 

[Amygdala]

Then show me the math.

Happy to oblige. But you're going to need to be more specific. What math can I do for you that isn't already completely obvious?