Lets talk chimpanzees vs humans

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You need the GOAT heavyweight to take on a antomweight manlet? p4p phail

Stop peddling this bro-science, brah.

This is a decent read, backed with research:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/chimpanzees-humans-sizing-strength/story?id=16696826

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This beast, armed with razor sharp teeth which can tear you from limb to limb, is going to start biting your balls off, pulling off your ears, poking your eyes - the moment it gets its hands on you.

Chimp wins 19 times out of 20.

Professor Cigano, OUT.
dat dere cajones
 
For those who haven't seen the after pics of the woman you make reference to.

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Any man woman or child going up against an angry chimp will come away with similar injuries.

Dem apes don't fight fair and can fight for a long time.
 
Do not forget: we are prey, we make tools, use the tools.
No, we most certainly are not. We are apex predators. Prey animals tend to have lower intelligence than predatory animals. We're predators, the only difference with us compared to other predators is that we use our intelligence and the tools we were able to create with it much more than our raw physical bodies. But make no mistake, we are top of the food chain predators. Prey animals would never rule the world like we do.
 
maybe, i don't have statistics of chimps reacting to blows to the head. however, i seen 2 silverbacks fighting, ant they were trading bites and blows, and those blows were aimed to the jaw, very similar to what we see in human fighting.
And I would like to point out that no ape is a predator, they're omnivores like us humans.

Oh, we (apes, monkeys) are all prey. And our brain/skull is similar to theirs. I suspect their's are thicker, the center of gravity and pivot point can be in different places.

I know punching a pitbull on the head, once it's locked its bite is pointless.
 
maybe, i don't have statistics of chimps reacting to blows to the head. however, i seen 2 silverbacks fighting, ant they were trading bites and blows, and those blows were aimed to the jaw, very similar to what we see in human fighting.
And I would like to point out that no ape is a predator, they're omnivores like us humans.
Omnivores and predators are not mutually exclusive. Much like bears, we are both. I believe the word you were looking for is carnivores. Carnivores only can process meat correctly. Omnivores can process both meat and vegetables/fruits. Herbivores can only process vegetation. Predatory animals can be either carnivores or omnivores. Prey animals are herbivores.
 
No, we most certainly are not. We are apex predators. Prey animals tend to have lower intelligence than predatory animals. We're predators, the only difference with us compared to other predators is that we use our intelligence and the tools we were able to create with it much more than our raw physical bodies. But make no mistake, we are top of the food chain predators. Prey animals would never rule the world like we do.

Our brains and our ability to practice "exhaustion hunting" put us on the top of the food chain.

Without tools we are prey. It's not a debate, it's a fact.
 
No, we most certainly are not. We are apex predators. Prey animals tend to have lower intelligence than predatory animals. We're predators, the only difference with us compared to other predators is that we use our intelligence and the tools we were able to create with it much more than our raw physical bodies. But make no mistake, we are top of the food chain predators. Prey animals would never rule the world like we do.
we are predators by mindset, not by physique. physiologically we are omnivores (teeth, intestines etc. prove that) and would be just that had we not developed such a powerful brain.
 
Our brains and our ability to practice "exhaustion hunting" put us on the top of the food chain.

Without tools we are prey. It's not a debate, it's a fact.
Human beings have always been predators with the ability to create tools. Chimps are also predators that can use tools, but cannot make them like we can. We evolved to have more brain and less brawn than our ape common ancestors. That doesn't make us prey, it simply makes us a different type of predator.
 
we are predators by mindset, not by physique. physiologically we are omnivores (teeth, intestines etc. prove that) and would be just that had we not developed such a powerful brain.
By the time modern humans had arrived, we already had a powerful brain. As did our common ancestors in between chimps and modern humans, especially the latter ones. I get what you're saying about our physiological makeup, though.
 
Human beings have always been predators with the ability to create tools. Chimps are also predators that can use tools, but cannot make them like we can. We evolved to have more brain and less brawn than our ape common ancestors. That doesn't make us prey, it simply makes us a different type of predator.


We are primates, and in the wild we've always been prey to larger predators. We are social, smart and so on, like other primates which allowed us survive. It took an extremely long time to evolve to bipedalism, tool manufacture, and so on, to get to being on the top of the food chain. But the animal we are, alone naked in the wild, is a prey. That's how we evolved. Like I said, this is not a debate, it's a fact. You need to take into account the timescales involved.
 
We are primates, and in the wild we've always been prey to larger predators. We are social, smart and so on, like other primates which allowed us survive. It took an extremely long time to evolve to bipedalism, tool manufacture, and so on, to get to being on the top of the food chain. But the animal we are, alone naked in the wild, is a prey. That's how we evolved. Like I said, this is not a debate, it's a fact. You need to take into account the timescales involved.
I'm pretty sure our common ancestors were also apex predators, like neanderthals, etc. We drove them out more than anything. Yes, in a hypothetical situation where a human has no weapons they will become prey against another predator. But that simply hasn't been the case in the history of modern humans, except for isolated cases. There are isolated cases where prey animals kill predators. Isolated cases count far less than major historical trends. Humans have had dominion over the earth since our inception.
 
I'm pretty sure our common ancestors were also apex predators, like neanderthals, etc. We drove them out more than anything. Yes, in a hypothetical situation where a human has no weapons they will become prey against another predator. But that simply hasn't been the case in the history of modern humans, except for isolated cases. There are isolated cases where prey animals kill predators. Isolated cases count far less than major historical trends. Humans have had dominion over the earth since our inception.

Many of our common ancestors were prey. For example, the earliest mammals were prey to larger reptiles.

It's not a binary "prey/predator" situation. For example, domestic cats are both prey and predator, which explains a lot of their behaviour: why they like to hide, go up high to have babies, stalk and so on.

Primates are not "top of food chain" predators like the big cats. It took an immensely long time for humans to walk, organize, build tools and get to the status you are thinking of. The early primates were mostly prey: that's why the trees were so useful.

You are thinking of the "modern human" as a ready-made product. That's not how evolution works: the creatures evolve, slowly, and the results are alterations on pre-existing themes. Our ancestors were a type of prey that slowly evolved to have the brain capacity to pull all this out. You cannot turn it upside down like that: you'd get a bad grade in a biology exam. Sorry about that....
 
They are strong and like all Apes they have very strong grip. But they are not so intelligent like other Apes and I doubt they are as strong as some make out. Also Chimps would probably be shy and confused if a MMA fighter started attacking it, Yes in packs Chimps can be deadly, but on their own? they are unsure.

But at the end of the day a adult Chimp and a adult male Human would get ripped to shreds by a Gorilla, at the same time!.

I remember ages ago watching a documentary about Mountain Gorilla's in Congo, and one of the adult male Gorillas saw the camera and it didn't really like it and it got in a mood, and it swiped out against a huge large rock/boulder and moved it several feet. Anyways a few days later they wanted to weigh the rock/boulder and they estimated it to be 5,300 Ibs. Crazy to think that it can move 5,300 Ibs with one large swipe.
 
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Many of our common ancestors were prey. For example, the earliest mammals were prey to larger reptiles.

It's not a binary "prey/predator" situation. For example, domestic cats are both prey and predator, which explains a lot of their behaviour: why they like to hide, go up high to have babies, stalk and so on.

Primates are not "top of food chain" predators like the big cats. It took an immensely long time for humans to walk, organize, build tools and get to the status you are thinking of. The early primates were mostly prey: that's why the trees were so useful.

You are thinking of the "modern human" as a ready-made product. That's not how evolution works: the creatures evolve, slowly, and the results are alterations on pre-existing themes. Our ancestors were a type of prey that slowly evolved to have the brain capacity to pull all this out. You cannot turn it upside down like that: you'd get a bad grade in a biology exam. Sorry about that....
Just to clarify, by common ancestors, I was referring to related species in between chimps and modern humans. I suppose technically they're our ancestors, but not chimps', which evolved earlier. We might be arguing semantics here to a large extent. You're raising some good points, but I'm pretty sure humans are classified as predators, not prey. But yes, predatory animals can become prey in certain circumstances. I'm pretty sure early modern humans were apex predators able to stalk large animals in groups and bring them down with spears or other weapons on a routine basis. I guess we're exhausting ourselves at this point, but I've appreciated the debate. I didn't/don't mean to sound overly dismissive.
 
No, I don't think we agree muchl. Plus, my advice stays put: the HW should enter that cage with a rifle. The chimp is dangerous for him.

I disagree with your interpretation of the video: it's anecdotal evidence of nothing. The man is there to feed them and so on, and the chimps are being unpredictable chimps. You cannot judge "strength" from that video, precisely because you cannot judge what the chimps were doing. Behaviour specialists would disagree on what went on there.

Now you're just in denial because you don't want your image of chimps to be proven wrong. Anybody including experts would look at that tape and see a Chimp going 100% in trying to overpower and man handle that man, and it was a pathetic display at best considering that average human wasn't fighting back, on the contrary he did everything he could(not literally) to make the Chimp look impressive and it still failed. That video, completely debunks all the herculean myths involvings chimpanzees.

Put a lethal human being in there instead and that chimp gets destroyed. Thrown around by a bigger, stronger more skilled creature, smashed in the head at will, you name it.

X times stronger than humans my hairy ape ass.

The "strongmen" competitions you mentioned, and most human-based physical stunts you propose are designed for the human anatomy. Bears, tigers and sharks would also not be capable of lifting these weights and so on. All these animals would kill and if hungry, consume the flesh of any human. Nature allows for many forms of attacks to be effective.
Change the "drill". Humans cannot do "chimp activities" as effectively. We need ropes and safety nets, and the speed up tree trunks like we walk around. That's their "normal", which partially explains their disproportionate arms.

In other words human beings are the superior species. Yes indeed, "it's not fair cause chimps aren't evolved for this". What does that tell you.

And yet the general (mis)conception is that chimps will wreck humans in ANY form of weight lifting and strength display.

Also go ahead and change the drill. I already admitted that chimps would win in body weight feats that involve things like pulling themselves up and what not. It is a very, very limited form of strength that they would thrive in, you know why right? Because they have short, weak legs and core unlike humans.

Because they are so limited, it is completely unfair to say that chimps are stronger than our strongest humans in general.

You expect the animal that evolved for a different way of life to perform in a "human way" in a "fight"? They won't, they cannot. It does not matter how strong their legs or whatever are. The danger for your fighter is precisely that it is a wild animal that will defend itself with extreme speed and strength. It's unpredictable, it's not a fight: it's a risk for the physical integrity of the fighter. A lot of "human combat" is based on knocking the opponent out, which correlates to how our brains sit inside our skulls. Other animals do not have the same skull anatomy: there is no guarantee our approach is useful at all. Then what? Hold them down and hurt them and so on? Well, it's animal cruelty and so on, but the animal in consideration, a chimp, can maul someone's face with it's hands. So you put a glove on the chimp to avoid that? Then stop the exercise, the whole thing makes no sense.

Do you have evidence to support this please? I'd like to see proof of chimps having skulls that aren't prone to blunt force trauma causing KO's.


Then again, why are you mismatching the weight category? Take a young gorilla that weighs the same as the HW. Your fight isn't fair.

I already said this: a real chimp can be scared of a normal sized human and just run away. But it can also go "ape-shit" and really hurt a HW champ. They are completely unpredictable.

I never once mentioned Gorilla's. That's a whole other topic, and I think at times you're confusing Gorillas and Chimps.

Also, how is the chimp gonna beat the HW champ please? Teeth, yes, I know they have dangerous bites. But what else is it going to do? What else is the short, weak legged midget who is 3 to 4 feet tall and less than 200lbs going to do exactly, with its uncoordinated flailing arms?
 
For those who haven't seen the after pics of the woman you make reference to.

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Any man woman or child going up against an angry chimp will come away with similar injuries.

Dem apes don't fight fair and can fight for a long time.

You're comparing Stipe Miocic to a middle aged, terrified woman now?

So if Stipe stomps a baby gorilla does that mean he would be able to do the same to a Silverback?
 
Just to clarify, by common ancestors, I was referring to related species in between chimps and modern humans. I suppose technically they're our ancestors, but not chimps', which evolved earlier. We might be arguing semantics here to a large extent. You're raising some good points, but I'm pretty sure humans are classified as predators, not prey. But yes, predatory animals can become prey in certain circumstances. I'm pretty sure early modern humans were apex predators able to stalk large animals in groups and bring them down with spears or other weapons on a routine basis. I guess we're exhausting ourselves at this point, but I've appreciated the debate. I didn't/don't mean to sound overly dismissive.

Sorry, I was also too cocky. Apologies.

The common ancestor, that is, early primates, were small tree-dwellers: prey and predator. Big apes evolved and grew, the hominid branched away. Apparently, most hominids were quickly top of food-chain predators, and the waves of migrations are thought to have followed large stock.

So, of course I agree that hominids have been on top of the food chain for a long time. The "sapiens" version (us) occupied the entire planet, except for Antartica.

The point I made is that primates, overall, evolved from animals that were mostly "prey", and it's observable in our anatomy/behaviour, and that of other primates. The type of teeth, that we are omnivorous and so on: our common ancestor was not some flesh-cutting beast, but rather opportunistic tree-dwellers.

We looked at different instances in this very long time. By the time there were neanderthals for example, hominids were already the top predator by a long margin. And we (sapiens) may have caused the disappearance of Neanderthals. That's an interesting topic in itself.
 
Sorry, I was also too cocky. Apologies.

The common ancestor, that is, early primates, were small tree-dwellers: prey and predator. Big apes evolved and grew, the hominid branched away. Apparently, most hominids were quickly top of food-chain predators, and the waves of migrations are thought to have followed large stock.

So, of course I agree that hominids have been on top of the food chain for a long time. The "sapiens" version (us) occupied the entire planet, except for Antartica.

The point I made is that primates, overall, evolved from animals that were mostly "prey", and it's observable in our anatomy/behaviour, and that of other primates. The type of teeth, that we are omnivorous and so on: our common ancestor was not some flesh-cutting beast, but rather opportunistic tree-dwellers.

We looked at different instances in this very long time. By the time there were neanderthals for example, hominids were already the top predator by a long margin. And we (sapiens) may have caused the disappearance of Neanderthals. That's an interesting topic in itself.
No worries. I completely agree with this. :)
 
Our brains and our ability to practice "exhaustion hunting" put us on the top of the food chain.

Without tools we are prey. It's not a debate, it's a fact.

But we do have brains, so we are not prey which is not a debatable fact.

That being said, a chimp would maul just about every MMA fighter. Chimps go for the balls often. When whoever is in there gets their balls ripped off, game over.
 
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