Learning Portuguese after taking up BJJ- Discussion

Will do. :)

Quick question if you don't mind, I keep trying to use the word "but" in my sentences except I cannot really find what is the correct pronounciation...one source I have sounds like mize (M-eyes) and the other sounds a bit like mas...and sometimes they use both on the same damn instructional! :(

And listening to the instructional gets hilarious..because who really talks like that anyway?

it's like... (pardon the spelling, I haven't practiced reading or writing only speaking)

Con li sensa senora. A senora intienge englais? gi ongi senora e? a senora sabe ongi fica hestaurante.....

all in fragments and addressing the person everytime...I'm gonna end up talking like a robot....


It depends on the region. "Mah-ss" like a soft "a" and normal s is used most often and would be better to learn. I say "mysh" which is the pronunciation from Rio. It gets me giggled at though, it's like a foreigner living in the South US for a while and saying "y'all."

First sentence I have no idea what you're trying to say. Then "a senhora entende ingles?" "De onde a senhora
 
if you are near nyc, nyu has continuing ed brazil portuguese classes. around 5 to 700 dollars.
 
Wow, someone bumped this old gem? glad to see it, good discussion.

It depends on the region. "Mah-ss" like a soft "a" and normal s is used most often and would be better to learn. I say "mysh" which is the pronunciation from Rio. It gets me giggled at though, it's like a foreigner living in the South US for a while and saying "y'all."

First sentence I have no idea what you're trying to say. Then "a senhora entende ingles?" "De onde a senhora
 
I love how he used a "g" for all the "de"s.
 
I'm concerned with using forums to learn since my experience with English speakers on English forums is that most people don't know how to speak or spell their own language despite decades of practice.
But at the same time, a friend who lived down there said many Brazilians have to intentionally speak incorrectly since being correct all the time comes across as pompous since many Brazilians aren't able to afford or don't have the opportunity of higher education. So a lot of people speak at the common denominator so as not to come across like assholes.
 
And listening to the instructional gets hilarious..because who really talks like that anyway?

it's like... (pardon the spelling, I haven't practiced reading or writing only speaking)

Con li sensa senora. A senora intienge englais? gi ongi senora e? a senora sabe ongi fica hestaurante.....

all in fragments and addressing the person everytime...I'm gonna end up talking like a robot....

Oh boy!

You ought to 'spruce up' your portugues
"E ae merm
 
I wonder what are the main differences between Brazilian Portugues and Portugal Portugues?
 
Speak Spanish with food in your mouth it'll sound pretty close to Portuguese.
 
"Mas" and "Mais" are not the same thing.

"Mas" means but, but is sometimes spoken as "mais". "Mais" means more.

A person who speaks perfect Portuguese would say "Mahs" and "Meyes", but most say "Meyes" for both cases. In Sao Paulo they typically say the perfect "mas".

In the Northeast it's always "meyes", and if you go to Rio de Janeiro it is neither, but "Meye-sh".
 
It's really easy to learn Brazilian. Just say "Now what I'm gon do." and narrate yourself, before you do something. stretch the 'H" sounds and don't use "Rs" . Basic situation that you might encounter in Rio:

Sales girl: That will be 25.00 dollars please sir.
You: Now what Im gon do. I reach hee into my lapea and poo outch my wallet. I puu out my debit ca-ad, and with constant preeesh between my fingers to not drop, I give hee mai ca-ad. Then with constant preesh I press my piin numbe.
Sales girl: Ahh I see...
You: Thank you my frien.
Sales Girl: Obrigato...
You: BOA!!!! *at the top of your lungs

There you go: Brazilian 101.

fuckin hilarious :icon_chee
 
I love how he used a "g" for all the "de"s.

yeah...:icon_sad: That's because I use audio tapes/no reading...I only listen and repeat Portuguese, no writing/reading yet...So I just roughly transcribed what I am hearing/saying.....

But, yeah, my Portuguese is the suck..especially grammar/spelling.
 
The Ds that sound like Gs, and the Ts that sound like Tchs, are not correct Portuguese. That is part of the Rio de Janeiro/Sao Paulo accent.
 
I recently bought rosetta stone for portuguese. I studied spanish in h.s. and it seems like alot of the words for food (milk, leche) and actions like drinking and eating are similar if not identical to spanish. Still tough to language to learn though.
 
Rosetta Stone is very polished with a great interface. Their method is okay, the whole learning like a child thing is a bit of a stretch, though, that suggests that you'll be surrounded by the target language, which most people aren't. Being tied to your computer to learn is kind of rough for some people, too.

Pimsleur is pretty good, but after you've completed the 3 series, you're still kind of stuck with some random touristy phrases and a pretty basic understanding of syntax. Still, it's good to hear the language, so the call and response is alright.

Assimil is probably one of the best language learning programs out there. You really need to supplement audio learning with some book learning, and it's important to surround yourself with the language for at least 30 minutes per day. Language learning should be both passive and active; spend some time listening or watching Brazilian TV, then some time actually learning through your book and audio discs.

Once you get to a decent level, buy a Harry Potter book or something in portuguese and the same unabridged audio book in english. Listen to it in english while you read it in portuguese. Then switch, listen to it in portuguese while you read it in english. This will help you learn new vocabularly, get used to comprehending the language at a native cadence, and start 'thinking' in portuguese, which is very important.

All that said, it's hard, hard work to learn a language when you're not emerged in it, but totally doable. Just my two cents.
 
Language learning in general is a subject I am very interested in, as much as, if not more than, grappling. I'm not an expert on Portuguese though.

My, er, two centavos.

Start with a basic course that has lots of audio. If you rush into reading and writing, your pronunciation is going to suck horribly.

Pimsleur is a good in that it's audio and it will help you pick up correct pronunciation from native speakers. It will NOT give you a good understanding of grammar or bring you anywhere close to fluency but it is vital that you don't start off with a horrible English accent. I have listened to all the Pimsleur Portuguese courses - it's easy to do when washing up, jogging, catching the train etc. I DON'T recommend buying the Pimsleur courses but if you can get hold of them, they're a good start. My local library seems to stock pretty much all the Pimsleur courses.

A guy called Michel Thomas did some really excellent courses in French, German, Italian and Spanish. His associates produced courses for other languages using his method. They're not as good as the originals, which in my opinion were AMAZING, but they are good. There's a basic course and and advanced course and you'll need both. I have done the basic Portuguese course but not the advanced. However, I have done the French, Spanish, German and Italian courses and the format is pretty similar. They WON"T give you much vocab but they'll give you a GREAT understanding of the verbs which is crucial. It's quite a different approach to Pimsleur. LOVE these courses. Michel Thomas was the man.

FSI is available for free on the net and as far as I know is legal! On the downside, it's pretty heavy going, it seems to be designed for would-be diplomats studying all day every day and it certainly ain't pretty. However, I've heard a lot of good things about the course. You should be able to download the course here.

FSI Language Courses - Portuguese

I don't have much experience with Rosetta, Assimil, Teach Yourself etc. There are a myriad of courses out there. As I said, the important thing is to start off with plenty of listening so that you don't mangle the pronunciation too badly.

Once you get started on a course I recommend that you start using an SRS program like Mnemosyne or Anki. These are flashcard programs that test you on vocabulary or whatever you want to learn. I mostly use Mnemosyne because of its simplicity but I believe Anki is actually a more powerful and versatile program. I have both loaded onto a USB stick so I can practice anywhere I have access to a computer.

Spaced repetition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Welcome to the Mnemosyne Project | The Mnemosyne Project

Anki - friendly, intelligent flashcards

You can download pre-made decks or make your own. It's up to you.

So, say you were doing Pimsleur, you might want to put the sentences you feel are useful into your SRS and review them until you know them. Of course, you are not limited to that and you can grab sentences from wherever. A word of warning, it's not wise to overdo it with SRS - limit yourself to about 10 new sentences per day or you might burnout. I usually do about 250 cards per day on these programs.

There are Pimsleur Portuguese transcripts out there on the net - they're not easy to find though.

Once you've reached a certain level, i.e. completed a couple of basic courses, got a few hundred sentences in your SRS program, I think it's best to start tackling Portuguese audiobooks and parallel texts. I use audiobooks by reading the English version of a book, say, something by Dan Brown, while listening to the language I want to learn. You are not going to understand everything but it does wonders for your listening comprehension and helps to reinforce what you know.

If you can get hold of a parallel text with audio, this is ideal! You can do what I described above whilst checking unknown words against the Portuguese.

If you just have a parallel text, well, that's a good way to study but beware of ingraining bad habits regarding pronunciation. For the last time, it's REALLY important.

After you've done a few books, it's really time to hunt down a conversation partner. There's plenty of places to find language exchange partners on the net. You want someone helpful who will give you feedback on your mistakes and not just try and speak in English. Avoid language leeches like this like you would grappling partners with ringworm! Oh, and you don't need to pay people to teach you! It's absolutely unnecessary when there's so many people out there who want to learn English.

Other good websites:

Language Learning Forum
(This is like the Sherdog of Language forums)

All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. About
(Has really good advice concerning how to approach language study)

Things I do NOT do while learning languages: anything boring, read books aimed at young children, spend ages looking at dictionaries (I hate dictionaries)...

I hope this has given you some ideas! The key thing to learning any language on your own is resources. Fortunately, the net is full of great stuff.

Anyone who's learning or interested in learning Japanese, Spanish, Italian, French or Portuguese, what the hell, even Korean, feel free to PM me.

Good advice, you made my last post kind of pointless. I've heard really good things about Michel Thomas, and I'm thinking of trying his program for my next target language.
 
I did some Russian using heavily discounted pimsleur. It is a VERY good method.

EDIT : I just saw the post above me mentionning Assimil. I wasn't even aware that it was available for English-speakers.
 
Good advice, you made my last post kind of pointless. I've heard really good things about Michel Thomas, and I'm thinking of trying his program for my next target language.

I've been forced to learn and develop competencies in several languages as an adult.

I do NOT recommend Michel Thomas. It seems fine when you're doing them but after you develop a certain amount of competency, if you go back and listen to them, you will notice his thick and heavy accent in several languages as well as a number of linguistic tics through several of his courses. Although he has a very fluent, idiomatic proficiency in most of the languages he teaches, it becomes fairly evident after a certain point that he is not a native speaker. Personally, I am pretty good with phonetics. I grew up speaking several languages and moving all over the place so I pick up correct pronunciation and accents relatively well. In two of the languages that I started as an adult through Michel Thomas CDs, I had to have my "foreign" accent corrected after I already unknowingly internalized it. This is a much more difficult process than just learning the correct accent and pronunciation in the first place.

CDs are fine and all, but for a little bit more than a full Rosetta course, you can do a vacation in a former colonial holding and take a weeklong intensive language course. Plus, you'll have an interesting story for when a hot chica tells you that you have an interesting accent.
 
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