Media Last Word : Joel Suprenant breaks down Askren-Lawler

fightfan84 said:
That's not how choke submission work. As spectators we don't have the benefit of knowing exactly how tight or how much pressure is being applied. We have no idea how bad of a state the fighter being choke is in or how much the fighter doing the choke is burning out his arms. If you have watched enough MMA there's many times chokes appeared to be a lock and the fight was basically over, and the fighter either escaped or the choker let go cause he burned his arms out. The main issue here is the arm falling. Now we have the benefit of camera angles that show Robbie repositioning his arm once it falls .Clearly not out. I get herb didn't have the benefit of seeing that angle live. But what he did next was check for consciousness on Robbie. Robbie responded in 2 ways. The first by keeping his arm lifted and pulling it away, and second by giving the thumbs up. Herb failing to aknolwedge that is the issue. A red should be aware at all times. It's not anything the same as a fighter eating strikes going out and coming back to. Using that analogy shows your lack of knowledge . But any rational MMA fan accepting this result as legit is absolutely crazy. Not even herb himself stands by it at this point. Horrible precedence to start having refs dictate when to stop of a fight based off a submission with the fighter tapping or sleeping
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I'm busy at the mo but reread my post as I didn't believe it was a good stoppage.
 
This guy provides the reasonable approach. Fuck the typical fanboy explication of the outcome of this fight, bunch of dishonest Ben Askren fans. Y'all should join Jones and Conor fans and suck each other off since you have so much in common lol
 
VVarhead said:
I completely agree with him, but seeing as fans are almost 50/50 on this fight and on this stoppage:
Why the fuck are people saying no to a rematch?

Oh yeah, Askren fans are scared of it, and Askren wants none of that rematch.
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Why didn't Lawler just slam him again? Why did he let a concussed man easily clinch him, take him down, take his back, and slap on a bulldog?

Fight was over. Couldn't possibly have gone better for Robbie and he still ended up in a tight bulldog from a guy who crushes watermelons 3 minutes in.

Beating him again leaves Askren right where he is. His fans aren't scared of anything lol.
 
MileHigher said:
I can’t stand that fucking guy. I don’t understand why Chael keeps him around.
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He has a bet with someone that he can get Joel over, kind of like Dana's bet with Lorenzo that Dana could get Nick the Tooth over.
 
fightfan84 said:
Robbies arm never went limp though is the issue. There's angles where you can see him adjust his position after it falls. An unconscious person couldn't do that...
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I get why you think robbie was adjusting his position after his arm went limp..

Watch the clip again but look at Askren as robbie's arm goes limp.

You'll see Askren leans in to tighten the bulldog choke which causes lawler's weight to shift and robbies arm to move. Control the head and you control the body.

Robbies thumbs up response was too late. If he was fine his arm would have shown resistance when herb grabbed it or stayed extended when herb let go.

Instead when herb checked on robbie, robbies arm did some lil circle before giving the thumbs up but in that split second the ref was already looking to Ben to loosen the grip and end the fight.
 
84percentcool said:
And I am supposed to take your word about your grappling history when you have shown absolutely zero knowledge of it?
No. Just, no.

You're right, it isn't debatable. Robbie went out.
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Man stop embarrassing yourself and look at all the video footage. Last chance before I chirp the shit out of you trying to tell me what I know when you are factually wrong
 
Ryeboi said:
To everyone that's NEVER grappled...

There are two things you do naturally to defend a choke:
1. Put your chin down to your chest.
2. Pull the attacker's arm from around your neck.

When you see an arm drop to the floor...which is NOT a defensive maneuver and typically associated with passing out, it's natural to assume the choke worked.

Getting choked out is NOT like an ON or OFF button with only two stages. The longer you lose oxygen the worse the consequences. There are many stages from being fine to being dead. You can lose enough oxygen to feel "out of it" momentarily, lose enough oxygen to pass out for a split second, get choked out and go limp for several seconds, get choked so bad some of your organs begin to die, and of course never wake up again.

It depends on the person's body, how much energy they were expending, how tight the choke was and how long the choke was applied...

Robbie lost enough oxygen for his arm to drop to the canvas. That's all I needed to see.
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Too bad that wasn’t all herb needed to see.

So herb checked on robbie, and then didn’t pay attention to his response.

Herb acknowledges he fucked it up. We know this. He would not have stopped it if he paid attention to robbies response. He missed it.
 
fightfan84 said:
Man stop embarrassing yourself and look at all the video footage. Last chance before I chirp the shit out of you trying to tell me what I know when you are factually wrong
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Is that a threat?

What the fuck are you going to do exactly, bitch? Gonna "chirp me out"? Sounds about right because only baby birds chirp like bitches.
 
But I saw a thumb on Robbie's hand✋so it must have been a thumbs up
-shertards
 
Ryeboi said:
I get why you think robbie was adjusting his position after his arm went limp..

Watch the clip again but look at Askren as robbie's arm goes limp.

You'll see Askren leans in to tighten the bulldog choke which causes lawler's weight to shift and robbies arm to move. Control the head and you control the body.

Robbies thumbs up response was too late. If he was fine his arm would have shown resistance when herb grabbed it or stayed extended when herb let go.

Instead when herb checked on robbie, robbies arm did some lil circle before giving the thumbs up but in that split second the ref was already looking to Ben to loosen the grip and end the fight.
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No man, he moved his hand forward and re positioned himself .That was right after not even a full second after the arm fell. An unconscious person can't physically move his hand the way Robbie did. Add that into Robbie responding to herbs check seconds later, he lifts Robbie's arm by his wrist , Robbie lifted his arm away and then proceeded to give herb the thumbs up. Again, physically impossible to do when unconscious. Robbie jumped immediately up, fully aware, full set of legs under him showing zero signs of his equilibrium being thrown off, also something an unconscious person wouldn't have done in that time frame. I get how it looked. I do. But facts are out now. Opinions aside he was conscious
 
mon said:
Rule 1 defend your neck everything else is secondary. Excellent post BTW though I believe it was a premature stoppage only because Herb didn't stop it on the arm drop. If he had of it would have been a legit stoppage.

No difference to a flash KO and the person wakes hitting the canvas and defends himself and the fight continues. If the referee jumps in on the KO good stoppage but if he doesn't and the persons now defending themselves it's too late to stop it for the original incident.

I feel for Lawler but he should have shown himself to be defending himself, the fact he wasn't could easily be interpreted by the ref that he's not there. If one hand was working at Askrens grips or trying to ease pressure, one way or another we wouldn't all be arguing.
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We really shouldn’t be telling a guy like lawler how to defend a choke for every second it’s being applied. He said he didn’t feel in danger. He’s not required to act in a certain way.

Herb got it wrong.
 
84percentcool said:
Is that a threat?

What the fuck are you going to do exactly, bitch? Gonna "chirp me out"? Sounds about right because only baby birds chirp like bitches.
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Never mind, your just some basic loser. Zero point in having a debate with someone like you.
 
kflo said:
Too bad that wasn’t all herb needed to see.

So herb checked on robbie, and then didn’t pay attention to his response.

Herb acknowledges he fucked it up. We know this. He would not have stopped it if he paid attention to robbies response. He missed it.
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He paid attention. Robbie arm was flopping back down after herb let go....

I've seen people give thumbs up. When it happens it a distinct movement clear as day... Not this limp noodle arm that can't straight out an elbow.

Herb was shocked. But he just, i dont get how your arm could go limp but you recover so quickly.

Herb should let them choke for a longer period of time. Saftey 2nd. Reputation 1st.
 
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