Kyokushin Karate

[nefti]

MMA training and Kudo Training is basically the same. How can you say that Kudo is MMA lite???? because of its astronaut helmet?

that and the fact that you're limiting yourself to basically two styles. Why do kudo? I understand if you're some kind of japanofile but... why do kudo?

 

[nefti]

Further on, I have never seen anyone question the ability of someone who comes from a grappling art without strikes to take a punch to the head or defend against it, despite them obviously having even less experience of head contact, especially considering that Kyokushin guys certainly aren't aliens to taking kicks and knees to the head and face.

so you are comparing a grappler's rediness to take strikes to the head to a striker? Don't you see the flaw in that logic?


[/quote]Last but not least, Francisco Filho, Glaube Feitosa, Sam Greco, Semmy Schilt, Bas Rutten, Andy Hug - all fighters with a strong Kyokushin background who seemingly have had no problem adapting to kickboxing or MMA rules. Before anyone says "Well, Bas Rutten only did Kyokushin for a while before he started doing Muay Thai" I'd like to point out that he's a 5th dan black belt and credits Kyokushin as the foundation for his kicking on one of his DVDs (sorry, can't remember which one). A 5th dan in Kyokushin takes many years, and most people never progress above 3rd dan - Rutten obviously continued doing Kyokushin even after he started Muay Thai as well.[/QUOTE]

actually guys like Feitosa and satake took a long time to get used to "K-1 rules". And Satake, never did well.

 

[DC-Chubbs]

Where about? There is a Kyokushin club in Manhattan [there website is www.kyokushinkarate.com] and there is one in Sunnyside, Queens [there site is Henri-Oh's Total Fitness & Karate Center - North American Kyokushin Organization Its horribly outdated but the school is still there. I workout there]

thanks for the help i will probably check out the one in manhattan since it is closer to where i live.

 

[bodychoke]

so you are comparing a grappler's rediness to take strikes to the head to a striker? Don't you see the flaw in that logic?

The only flaw in that logic is if we compare them under their own respective ruleset, which I am not. I am comparing them under MMA rulesets, and the adaptions they have to do. A Judoka, BJJ practicioner, Wrestler or a Kyokushin fighter who decides to transition to MMA all have to face the problem of suddenly having to take punches to the face, however, no one questions the ability of grapplers to learn stand up with face punches, but for some reason people seem to think that it is some sort of enormous obstacle for a Kyokushin karateka. It is no harder for a Kyokushin figher to adapt to head punches than it is for anyone from any other style that lacks them.

Last but not least, Francisco Filho, Glaube Feitosa, Sam Greco, Semmy Schilt, Bas Rutten, Andy Hug - all fighters with a strong Kyokushin background who seemingly have had no problem adapting to kickboxing or MMA rules. Before anyone says "Well, Bas Rutten only did Kyokushin for a while before he started doing Muay Thai" I'd like to point out that he's a 5th dan black belt and credits Kyokushin as the foundation for his kicking on one of his DVDs (sorry, can't remember which one). A 5th dan in Kyokushin takes many years, and most people never progress above 3rd dan - Rutten obviously continued doing Kyokushin even after he started Muay Thai as well.

actually guys like Feitosa and satake took a long time to get used to "K-1 rules". And Satake, never did well.

Ok, drop Feitosa if you want to, and Satake I never mentioned, but my point really does still stand though - it has been shown that transitioning from Kyokushin rules to other rules isn't some kind of magical unsurpassable barrier as people seem to make it out to be. If a grappler can pick up enough of a striking game in a couple of years to be ready for the cage, it's absurd to claim that a long time striker would somehow have a harder time of adding a single aspect of that to his game.

 

[nefti]

The only flaw in that logic is if we compare them under their own respective ruleset, which I am not. I am comparing them under MMA rulesets, and the adaptions they have to do. A Judoka, BJJ practicioner, Wrestler or a Kyokushin fighter who decides to transition to MMA all have to face the problem of suddenly having to take punches to the face, however, no one questions the ability of grapplers to learn stand up with face punches, but for some reason people seem to think that it is some sort of enormous obstacle for a Kyokushin karateka. It is no harder for a Kyokushin figher to adapt to head punches than it is for anyone from any other style that lacks them.

It is a big obstical as compared to OTHER STRIKING STYLES such as boxing,kickboxing, muay thai, san da ect.

The flaw that comparison is that you are comparing a set of styles that have NO STRIKING WHAT SO EVER to a style that IS ACTUALLY A STRIKING STYLE.

Ok, drop Feitosa if you want to, and Satake I never mentioned, but my point really does still stand though - it has been shown that transitioning from Kyokushin rules to other rules isn't some kind of magical unsurpassable barrier as people seem to make it out to be. If a grappler can pick up enough of a striking game in a couple of years to be ready for the cage, it's absurd to claim that a long time striker would somehow have a harder time of adding a single aspect of that to his game.

No i don't think so. I do think that Karate competition is not a good mearsuing stick to combat sports. Meaning, the lack of strikes to the head doesn't expose and weed out the weak chinned and the ones that can't defend head shots. That's why i think that not all karate guys do well in K-1/mma.. .they just couldn't adjust.

 

[Daido_Juku]

that and the fact that you're limiting yourself to basically two styles. Why do kudo? I understand if you're some kind of japanofile but... why do kudo?

Its like Muay Thai and BJJ, ITs not about styles.. IF you are training the right way, right diet and if you have really the talent. BJJ and Muay thai or Kyokushin and Judo is enough to take your opponent.

MMA gyms are good though but its still within the indiviudal that train. If you also think.. BJ penn is boxing and BJJ....... SHogun muay thai and BJJ. Chuck wrestling and unorthodox boxing..

 

[nefti]

Its like Muay Thai and BJJ, ITs not about styles.. IF you are training the right way, right diet and if you have really the talent. BJJ and Muay thai or Kyokushin and Judo is enough to take your opponent.

actually it is the style. Styles have training methods, rules, philosphies of attack/defence and whether or not it has a realistic proving ground for it's techniques/theories (i e full out sparring).

MMA gyms are good though but its still within the indiviudal that train. If you also think.. BJ penn is boxing and BJJ....... SHogun muay thai and BJJ. Chuck wrestling and unorthodox boxing..

You also have a larger pool of experience in MMA and people who know what works or doesn't work. I am sure that your style has people who know it also.. but the # would be much smaller.

 

[Daido_Juku]

Styles don't make fight... ITs the individual ...... Keith Jardine have been training in GReg Jackson camp, but have you seen him improve his style? His like a Man with unorthodox style. Josh Koscheck has been training in AKA which is primarily a kickboxing school? but have you seen him improve his kicks???... All comes down to the person

 

[nefti]

Styles don't make fight... ITs the individual ...... Keith Jardine have been training in GReg Jackson camp, but have you seen him improve his style? His like a Man with unorthodox style. Josh Koscheck has been training in AKA which is primarily a kickboxing school? but have you seen him improve his kicks???... All comes down to the person

aka is not just a kickboxing school it is an mma camp. Just like Jackson's mma. Both jardine's and koscheks MMA game has improved. And actually Josh Koscheck's stand up has improved.

Styles have training theories and training methods. That's what seperates judo from aikido.
Why did you choose the a style that combines the most MODERN of the so called "karate" styles? And the one of the most modern jiu jitsu styles? Because of the style has specific training methods such as live sparring and live drills. if it didn't matter you would be doing aikido and yellow bamboo. But you're not. because you choosing daido juku is proof enough that styles DO matter.

 

[nefti]

there is a reason why Mas oyama created KK. He saw that the majority of karate schools at the time didn't do any kind of significant sparring. he stated that many times himself. That's why when KK first started it attracted karatekas from other schools. Because it had what alot of othe schools were missing. Live full on sparring.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

that and the fact that you're limiting yourself to basically two styles. Why do kudo? I understand if you're some kind of japanofile but... why do kudo?

because striking + grappling = mma

karate(striking) + judo(grappling) = kudo

therefore kudo = mma

Here's something pretty cool I found while searching Kyokushin.

 

[ambertch]

because striking + grappling = mma

karate(striking) + judo(grappling) = kudo

therefore kudo = mma

Here's something pretty cool I found while searching Kyokushin.

That's not true. Watch my counteranalogy:

Education = get a high paying job

community college (education) = community college degree


So going to community college = get a high paying job. Get it? You're oversimplifying and ignoring a lot of stuff by saying striking + grappling = mma and then equating karate and judo to striking and grappling.




Kudo/Daido Juku is MMA, but would it be competitive? Well, watch UFC 2. A Kudo champion participated in that event. Mind you this isn't even modern MMA, this is early UFC. If Kudo is true MMA, then its practitioner would have had a decisive advantage over Royce Gracie's "one dimensional BJJ" right?



The problem with telling yourself you have MMA just because you have both striking and grappling, is that this ignores the fact that there are many kinds of striking, and many kinds of grappling This is why people will go out and do boxing, muay thai, wrestling, judo, and BJJ even though these styles have overlap. Why have both judo and BJJ when both have a ground game? Why have both judo and wrestling when both are about takedowns and control? Why have both boxing and Muay thai when both are about striking? When you find out this answer for yourself, you will have learned something about the nature MMA.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

I get what you're saying but when I said karate I figured it would be understood I meant kyokushin, which is about as close to muay thai as you can get w/o actually doing muay thai. And because it's kyokushin and judo,( which is where bjj comes from) I consider it to be mma because they allow both striking and grappling w/ submissions like mma, and is a Mixture of Martial Arts. And alot of mma fighters just do Muay Thai and bjj so I don't see how it's that different.

And you didn't say anything about the video I posted you jerk! I thought those kids were pretty good, atleast the kyokushin kid anyway. If I had never wrestled before and was a pure karateka/kickboxer I probably would've never thought to reverse those throws.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

Oh and to answer your question about Royce and the Daido Juku guy is that he was simply better at submissions because from what I hear a blackbelt in judo is only as good as a blue or purple belt in BJJ on the ground. There have been plenty of MMA fights where one guy beat the other because he was simply better at one thing than the other guy, and GSP doesn't count because he's better than everyone at everything.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

edit

 

[Daido_Juku]

Grappling during the time didn't evolve just like now.. But Judo isn't only about Takedowns and control. Judo(newaza)research about that. Its Judo with submissions and throws. People only know is the judo that is competing on Olympics but didn't know that Judo has submission too.

For the fact. the god of Judo has beaten the founder of Gracie Jiu Jitsu when they met in a grappling match. And Judo is the root of BJJ..

I am training Kudo but our sempai teaches us boxing, grappling, throws, kyokushin-kickboxing, submissions and wrestling. So basically Kudo is MMA. No matter what art. Muay thai and BJJ is still MMA. because 2 martial arts being mixed at each other. MMA is not all about boxing, wrestling, bjj, kickboxing or muay thai. It depends on the fighter.

 

[Daido_Juku]

YouTube - ???? vs ??? ? Kyokushin Karate vs Shoalin Xanda - I have watched this video many times and this is the truth that many sherdoggers will have there ass kick by this kids.

 

[Payak]

those kids are ok, but little jangjou from fairtex will destroy them and hes only eleven.

 

[Daido_Juku]

yeah thats kid is nasty. But we haven't seen them fight. I hope they face each other.

 

[Ninjutsu Master]

those kids are ok, but little jangjou from fairtex will destroy them and hes only eleven.

Any vids? the only kids I've ever seen fight were crappy point fighters. They should make the kyokushin kid fight this thai kid.