knight vs samurai.

[moreorless87]

A lot of people don't know this, but most knights were homosexual.

Warriors cultures were men spent most time in each others company generally seem to have a lot of homosexuality, knights, samurai, Spartans, etc.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Warriors cultures were men spent most time in each others company generally seem to have a lot of homosexuality, knights, samurai, Spartans, etc.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I thought I saw somewhere samurai have ground game so they would win when fighting guy relying solely on armor.

Most Knights and Sergents(professional soldiers)were trained in some form of grappling. Just as with the Samurai, it was used as a last resort if they had lost their main weapons. The aim was usually to pin the enemy down long enough to finish him with a dagger.

A lot of people seem to think Katana's were basically real-world Light Sabres. In reality, a Katana would fail to cut through plate or even chainmail. It might be able to pierce it by stabbing, but that limits the Samurai's options.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Goku > Harry Potter STFU

 

[moreorless87]

Most Knights and Sergents(professional soldiers)were trained in some form of grappling. Just as with the Samurai, it was used as a last resort if they had lost their main weapons. The aim was usually to pin the enemy down long enough to finish him with a dagger.

Moreso than that I'd guess the aim was to subdue and capture an opponent so they could be ransomed back to their family. As came up in the medieval thread a lot of the reason the English were able to punch above their weight in the 100 years war was that the French knights were thinking more about capturing as many English nobles for ransom as they could rather than winning battles.

A lot of people seem to think Katana's were basically real-world Light Sabres. In reality, a Katana would fail to cut through plate or even chainmail. It might be able to pierce it by stabbing, but that limits the Samurai's options.

Although an elite samurai in a pitched battle rather than the classic movie duel would be using bows and spears on horseback rather than his sword, probably the better debate is would Japanese horseback archery have been effective against a European army? the Mongols were but they were much more experienced.

The debate that fits in with peoples image of the samurai would actually be more vs European duelist with both un armoured...

 

[jimbob27]

Just look at the wooden castles of Japan if you want to get an idea of how low-level they were.

We're comparing the military of couple of islands, to that of 1 and a bit continents, who've been kicking the shit out of each other constantly for thousands of years.

 

[KnightTemplar]

When the Mongols fought against Polish/Hungarian/Croatian knights and Japanese samurai, who got beat?

Even the Samurai themselves admitted the Mongols lost to the Divine Wind, the storm that wrecked their ships before the main invasion force could make landfall.

The Mongols owned the European Knights because their Bows gave them an unbeatable advantage at long range. It would be like taking a modern day army unit back in time to fight the Mongols. No matter how tough and skilled the Mongols are, they'll get shot to pieces before they get anywhere near the soldiers. I believe there were a couple of incidences early in the Mongol invasion of Europe where they got over-confident and tried to fight Knights at sword and lance range. It did not end well for the Mongols and they didn't make the same mistake again.

Styles make fights.

 

[Pugilistic]

ninjas are chinese haha. infact im not even certain the samurai have it over their korean or chinese counterparts either.

The Japanese invasion of Korea in the 15th century might prove otherwise, at least against Koreans. The japanese won pretty much every major land battle and started to give up castles because they weren't being supplied by the Navy, which was getting wrecked by Admiral Yi.

The Japanese wrecked Koreans with arquebuses to be fair. Still, Koreans used heavy artillery (canons, rockets), which the japanese didn't use as much and still got their shit pushed in. The common narrative is that they were also able to crush Korean troops in melee combat due to their superior skills, not to mention they had a ton experience fighting each other in centuries of feudal warfare.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Moreso than that I'd guess the aim was to subdue and capture an opponent so they could be ransomed back to their family. As came up in the medieval thread a lot of the reason the English were able to punch above their weight in the 100 years war was that the French knights were thinking more about capturing as many English nobles for ransom as they could rather than winning battles.



Although an elite samurai in a pitched battle rather than the classic movie duel would be using bows and spears on horseback rather than his sword, probably the better debate is would Japanese horseback archery have been effective against a European army? the Mongols were but they were much more experienced.

The debate that fits in with peoples image of the samurai would actually be more vs European duelist with both un armoured...

Fair points. The Lance, from horseback of course, was the Knight's preferred weapon as well. The Sword(or Mace or Axe)was used as a back-up when the Lance was lost/broken or they were at too close a range for it to be effective.

Knights did often take prisoners of a sufficiently high social status as prisoner for ransom, but not always. For example, flying the Dragon Banner meant that no prisoners would be taken.

Although they didn't fire from horseback, I'd bet the Welsh Longbow Archers against the Samurai or Mongols for speed and accuracy.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Samurais also carried bows, that'd own a knight. Samurais also employed ninjas, who'd kill knights in their sleep. Knights only employed peasants, who are pretty worthless.

Welsh Longbow Archers were, "peasants" and they slaughtered the French Knights at Agincourt. They'd fuck up the Samurai as well.

Ninja's were pussies. The Knights knew how to deal with assassins - the very name comes from the Islamic Hashshashin sect. One of them managed to sneak into Edward I's tent while he was on Crusade and stab him with a poisoned dagger. Longshanks beat him to death with his bare hands before summoning his doctor. Ninjas got nothing for Knights

 

[KnightTemplar]

There's a reason Uma Thurman sought out Japanese steel instead of whatever knights use.

Because she needed a weapon that could be used by a skinny woman, instead of a man's sword

 

[KnightTemplar]

I thought they'd get judo throw or sacrifice throw and then stab with the sword and move to next opponent.

I wonder if heavy armored knight could even stand back up if taken down considering the armor weight.

There have been experiments in which people wear authentic full plate armour and try to sprint, do forward rolls etc. For someone who has trained in it, the armour allows a surprising range of motion and speed.

 

[KnightTemplar]

how exactly were samurai doing more with less resources ?

This. Samurai were given lands and the income from it in return for service to their feudal lord, just like the Knights in Europe.

 

[SandisLL]

Yes, Japanesse Samurai had highly developed unarmed combat skills, but they used them mainly to be able to die when continued resistence even with bare hands.

Practical applications this had almost in 0 value because in samurai era Japan they weren't poor.

Samurai was able to buy not only katana, short sword and tanto, but second backup tanto too.
Units commanded by samurai used bows and arrows, they had bow usage skills comparable to early medieval England or Mongolia, so really high level.
Samurai widely used also spears for throwing, long spears for fighting and only then, if they had not any items to throv, started sword fighting.
In usage of available items for throving, including stones and knifes they were at high skills level.

Due to inferior metallurgy and smithing thy used single bladed swords more often than double bladed. Short swords and tanto were single bladed.
All fencing was more crude than in Europe even in 500 B.C and then isn't worth to compare with medieval knights, late medieval era pirates, officers, feodals and paid swordsmans.
Their fencing skills were lower than casual european students skills even 200 years ago.
___
After WW2 Martial Arts were more commercialised and Japan had destroyed economy, heavy burden of different taxes and weak upper middle class.

They thanks to TV and fancy demonstartions achieved in U.S and Europe public opinion, that they are superior in fencing, knife fighting than our heritage was….
We didn't offered belts in sword handling and fencing with different names and European heritage was not able to offer multiple dan ranks to enchance western man's [prestige in society. They had and we were happy to forget our history and heritage in order to believe that we were lesser knowledgeable…..
Despite our ancestors had fights even with two double edged swords more than 2000 years before radio appeared in world.
Despite our youngsters 200 years ago knew how to fight for life with double edged sword in one hand and double edged knife in another hand.
Before WW2 students and officer clubs, frathernities had for fun nice tutelage in fencing, wow….no belts.

We choosed believe that strangers are superior because rituals and kitchen knife usage as back up weapon ; tanto IS kitchen knife by pre WW2 european standarts and there nothing to do with this truth.
In many countries it still is kitchen knife because dont have guard, single bladed. Hunters don't likes them and I have one this kitchen knife to use in kitchen, it has certificate, that it is kitchen knife. Okey, large butchers knife or fish filleting knife too are kitchen knifes, even if larger.

 

[loyalyolayal]

A lot of people don't know this, but most knights were homosexual.

So do samurais. They were pederasts like the greeks.

 

[original doom]

There have been experiments in which people wear authentic full plate armour and try to sprint, do forward rolls etc. For someone who has trained in it, the armour allows a surprising range of motion and speed.

yeh ive seen that. theres a few dudes metatron and skallagrim etc who discuss swordplay, armour, maces, halberds etc etc. its quite surprising just how mobile a full kit wanker knight really was.

 

[MesoPeaks]

Knights have superior armor and weapon. They win.

 

[original doom]

Yes, Japanesse Samurai had highly developed unarmed combat skills, but they used them mainly to be able to die when continued resistence even with bare hands.

Practical applications this had almost in 0 value because in samurai era Japan they weren't poor.

Samurai was able to buy not only katana, short sword and tanto, but second backup tanto too.
Units commanded by samurai used bows and arrows, they had bow usage skills comparable to early medieval England or Mongolia, so really high level.
Samurai widely used also spears for throwing, long spears for fighting and only then, if they had not any items to throv, started sword fighting.
In usage of available items for throving, including stones and knifes they were at high skills level.

Due to inferior metallurgy and smithing thy used single bladed swords more often than double bladed. Short swords and tanto were single bladed.
All fencing was more crude than in Europe even in 500 B.C and then isn't worth to compare with medieval knights, late medieval era pirates, officers, feodals and paid swordsmans.
Their fencing skills were lower than casual european students skills even 200 years ago.
___
After WW2 Martial Arts were more commercialised and Japan had destroyed economy, heavy burden of different taxes and weak upper middle class.

They thanks to TV and fancy demonstartions achieved in U.S and Europe public opinion, that they are superior in fencing, knife fighting than our heritage was….
We didn't offered belts in sword handling and fencing with different names and European heritage was not able to offer multiple dan ranks to enchance western man's [prestige in society. They had and we were happy to forget our history and heritage in order to believe that we were lesser knowledgeable…..
Despite our ancestors had fights even with two double edged swords more than 2000 years before radio appeared in world.
Despite our youngsters 200 years ago knew how to fight for life with double edged sword in one hand and double edged knife in another hand.
Before WW2 students and officer clubs, frathernities had for fun nice tutelage in fencing, wow….no belts.

We choosed believe that strangers are superior because rituals and kitchen knife usage as back up weapon ; tanto IS kitchen knife by pre WW2 european standarts and there nothing to do with this truth.
In many countries it still is kitchen knife because dont have guard, single bladed. Hunters don't likes them and I have one this kitchen knife to use in kitchen, it has certificate, that it is kicthen knife. Okey, large butchers knife or fish filleting knife too are kitchen knifes, even if larger.

interesting. did you find this thread googling knights vs samurai ?

contrary to popular belief spears were the go too weapon universally.

 

[superpunch]

Moreso than that I'd guess the aim was to subdue and capture an opponent so they could be ransomed back to their family. As came up in the medieval thread a lot of the reason the English were able to punch above their weight in the 100 years war was that the French knights were thinking more about capturing as many English nobles for ransom as they could rather than winning battles.



Although an elite samurai in a pitched battle rather than the classic movie duel would be using bows and spears on horseback rather than his sword, probably the better debate is would Japanese horseback archery have been effective against a European army? the Mongols were but they were much more experienced.

The debate that fits in with peoples image of the samurai would actually be more vs European duelist with both un armoured...

Check this out. It's a repeating crossbow the Chinese invented around 400 BC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow

This guy loaded them up on a carriage and tied the firing mechanism to the motion of wheels, creating an ancient tank with an automatic weapon around 180 AD

In 180 AD, Yang Xuan used a type of repeating crossbow powered by the movement of wheels:

...around A.D. 180 when Yang Xuan, Grand Protector of Lingling, attempted to suppress heavy rebel activity with badly inadequate forces. Yang's solution was to load several tens of wagons with sacks of lime and mount automatic crossbows on others. Then, deploying them into a fighting formation, he exploited the wind to engulf the enemy with clouds of lime dust, blinding them, before setting rags on the tails of the horses pulling these driverless artillery wagons alight. Directed into the enemy's heavily obscured formation, their repeating crossbows (powered by linkage with the wheels) fired repeatedly in random directions, inflicting heavy casualties. Amidst the obviously great confusion the rebels fired back furiously in self-defense, decimating each other before Yang's forces came up and largely exterminated them.[4]

— Ralph Sawyer

Seeing how divergent the tech in ancient militaries across the world was and how fighting could have been done so differently in different places is mind blowing

 

[SandisLL]

interesting. did you find this thread googling knights vs samurai ?

Nope, I was a bit interested in fencing history before sherdog appeared in this world.
Of course, I cannot compare movements in medieval armour, however swords yes.

There's assumption, that all guys are just modern internet age generation.

Heavy armour was widely used in europe only few centuries, before this period and later sword fighting was different.

I didn't had interest in fencing (me doesn't likes knifes etc ) before I had some experience to compare so honourable in combat society black belt with drilling partner; former " just " sports fencing athlete in....knife defense class and how " dealt ", in reality attempted to deal with him blackbelt guy in kendo class...
Later i had a bit experience with guys who did fencing for fun, mainly they used some late medieval technique mixed with modern fencing and then i read up about our combat heritage a bit.
Ok, I wasn't in fencing sport, but to resist them were far more intensive torture in 1 minute than with kendo instructor for 8 minutes. His cardio sometimes ended after 7 - 8 minutes without scoring anything.