Klay Pittman Belt System?

I just read that thread since you brought it up. I think the belt rank misrepresentation in the thread is disgusting, but I will go on record and say I rolled against a Klay Pittman red belt (Yes, red belt. dude was in twenties) while in Texas and I got beat up pretty bad.

Their jiu jitsu's no joke.
 
I have seen some questionable grapplers come out of that school. I have seen a "black belt" that wore that belt with pride and had moved back from Lubbock. She trains at a local school and I would not say she is much better than blue belt level. That is not just my opinion but the opinion of many people I know. I have seen others of high rank that have very little knowledge of the gi game much less simple back control, attacks, escapes, etc. you would expect. That doesn't mean everyone from that gym/system is not good but yeah they can churn out some belts that don't always stack up well against the traditional system most of us are accustomed to.

Last thing I will say is that a good friend of mine who started at the same time as me but took time off moved out there a year ago. He was due for his blue belt but had missed many opportunities to be promoted since he move around a lot and took time off. He "scheduled" an appointment to meet with Pittman's gym to interview as a student. He came to the realization that they are much more interested in gaining new students that have not trained BJJ at other schools. They want you in the their "black belt program" and he didn't like the vibe. He decided to go train at the a Ralph Gracie affiliate instead and did get his blue in about 4-6 months and felt better about that choice.
 
Pittman also trained and awarded Brandon Mullins his blackbelt. Pittman is legit
 
300 classes= guaranteed black belt. oh man.

Yeah...I'm not one to say one method is best but it is not like that at our gym. Yes we keep up with attendance and that does have some impact on giving out stripes but we are not that on top of it if you know what I mean. It's not uncommon for people to be promoted to the next belt level and only have a couple stripes on their belts.
 
300 classes= guaranteed black belt. oh man.

So if you go three times a week for two years, you get a black belt? But someone will chime in with the "belts are silly and are only worth whatever they mean to the presenter and receiver."

My question would be does he charge for belt testing or promotion?
 
Copying the info from reddit here:

These are the belt colors with the number of classes needed to promote:
•white (20)
•yellow (30)
•orange (40)
•green (40)
•blue (40)
•purple (40)
•brown (60)
•advanced brown (60)
•red (70)
•advanced red (70)
•black (provisional 300)
•Black (red bar)

To me, that list indicates that the timeframes are for after you've gotten the previous belt. If that's right, Klay's system would be black belt (provisional) after 470 classes and black belt (red bar) after 770 classes. Not a huge difference, given that that's still less than 2 years for some people to get their final belt, but still.

It would make more sense, or as much sense as that convuluted rank system can make, if those were absolute minimums, and no one really gets belts that fast.
 
If I start in January, I hit 300 classes by mid August
 
These are the belt colors with the number of classes needed to promote:
white (20)
yellow (30)
orange (40)
green (40)
blue (40)
purple (40)
brown (60)
advanced brown (60)
red (70)
advanced red (70)
black (provisional 300)
Black (red bar)

Completely absurd. Also, it takes 20 classes to get a white belt? what do you wear before? A clear belt? No belt at all? Suspenders?
 
These are the belt colors with the number of classes needed to promote:
white (20)
yellow (30)
orange (40)
green (40)
blue (40)
purple (40)
brown (60)
advanced brown (60)
red (70)
advanced red (70)
black (provisional 300)
Black (red bar)

Completely absurd. Also, it takes 20 classes to get a white belt? what do you wear before? A clear belt? No belt at all? Suspenders?

Literally lol'd at that.
 
Guessing it is:

white + (20 classes then you get)
yellow + (30 more (50 total) classes then you get)
orange + (40 more (90 total) classes then you get)
green + (40 more (130 total) classes then you get)
blue + (40 more (170 total) classes then you get)
purple + (40 more (210 total) classes then you get)
brown + (60 more (270 total) classes then you get)
advanced brown + (60 more (330 total) classes then you get)
red + (70 more (400 total) classes then you get)
advanced red + (70 more (470 total) classes then you get)
black + (provisional 300 more (770 total) classes then you get)
Black w/red bar

That accurate?

All of this said, I rolled with a yellow belt from his school at a seminar that was fairly knowledgeable. He showed me a few things. Although, he has since moved to a new state and now attends a Gracie Humaita school last I spoke with him.
 
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Pittman got his BB from Carlos Machado at the same time Will Vandry and Travis Tooke did. It was on the podium I believe.
 
Well, you can't base it on skill. If you base it on skill, you would have to promote people who came in already knowing what to do, like some asshole Judo guy that knows everything from traditional white-blue minus a couple sweeps.

I've been in karate schools when someone shows up with MT fights and a black belt in TKD and they make him line up with the white belts for 3 months until he officially tests for yellow. That's happened a couple times. They normally think it is funny and don't care, because they expected as much, but it really undermines the whole system.

But the point of a belt system isn't to show knowledge or skill, nor is it to help the instructor run class, especially when it takes years to get a color. It is to show pecking order to squash pissing contests, and your local black belt might not want to immediately let a new guy be ranked above his own guys who he likes.
 
Well, you can't base it on skill. If you base it on skill, you would have to promote people who came in already knowing what to do, like some asshole Judo guy that knows everything from traditional white-blue minus a couple sweeps.

I've been in karate schools when someone shows up with MT fights and a black belt in TKD and they make him line up with the white belts for 3 months until he officially tests for yellow. That's happened a couple times. They normally think it is funny and don't care, because they expected as much, but it really undermines the whole system.

But the point of a belt system isn't to show knowledge or skill, nor is it to help the instructor run class, especially when it takes years to get a color. It is to show pecking order to squash pissing contests, and your local black belt might not want to immediately let a new guy be ranked above his own guys who he likes.

This is off topic but there is a dilemma when you have a guy from another art crossing over who has the skills to hang with our beat your black belts. But at the same time, black belts in most TMAs are about more than just fighting skill. Things like knowledge of the history of the art, understanding of the philosophy of the art (if applicable), how they represent martial arts or that art as a whole, and how much they contribute to the growing of the art.

I know on Sherdog, most of this stuff wouldn't matter since its all about fighting. But for some instructors that stuff is just as important as fighting ability. So you run into cases like Josh Barnett who has a black belt in BJJ officially speaking but came up through catch wrestling for a majority of his skillset.
 
This is off topic but there is a dilemma when you have a guy from another art crossing over who has the skills to hang with our beat your black belts. But at the same time, black belts in most TMAs are about more than just fighting skill. Things like knowledge of the history of the art, understanding of the philosophy of the art (if applicable), how they represent martial arts or that art as a whole, and how much they contribute to the growing of the art.

I know on Sherdog, most of this stuff wouldn't matter since its all about fighting. But for some instructors that stuff is just as important as fighting ability. So you run into cases like Josh Barnett who has a black belt in BJJ officially speaking but came up through catch wrestling for a majority of his skillset.

That might be true, but if that's the case, for the majority of TMA's there is a problem with lies and hypocrisy when it comes to what people think the belt is for.

I've always had the impression that yes, the black belt should have something to do with character and knowledge of the philosophy of the art, along with the ability to perform the techniques, and less to do with fighting ability. The black belt should mean that you have become a stronger, better you than some objective fighting ability (50th, 60th, 90th percentile of fighting ability), being that many people come in to martial arts falling into the bottom 10% and have to work their ass off for years just to beat an average guy.

But you only hear about that when someone shows up wanting a belt and deserving one according to ability, or who memorizes all 10 forms in like 2 months. While the school is still insulated, belts mean fighting ability and you should be proud of how good you can fight. Instructors always let that sort of thinking go.

You see it on this forum when some dude gets his blue belt after two years and some new guy comes in off the street and gives him Abusive Head Trauma by smashing him up and down from closed guard and spaz passing him while he is hurt. To a worldly, uninitiated person, the situation is a no-brainer, "shouldn't have fucked with that guy." To an insulated martial artist, it is ego crushing.

"Oh, I guess my BJJ blue belt was because I learned rolling technique and learned history, rather than my certification as a trained killer."

Instructors run into trouble when they don't promote the competent guy who just came in when they have failed to promote some sweetheart, 120 pound girl who is too scared to spar, despite her mastery of all drills and history. That's when it becomes clear that the head instructor is too insecure to promote on those grounds because he doesn't want someone in the bottom 90% to get beat up and make him look bad.

In short, students don't know what belts mean because instructors don't know what belts mean.
 
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Thread wasn't made for doubting the legitimacy of Pittman's skill or his students, I just thought the belting system was fucking bizarre.
 
But the point of a belt system isn't to show knowledge or skill, nor is it to help the instructor run class, especially when it takes years to get a color. It is to show pecking order to squash pissing contests, and your local black belt might not want to immediately let a new guy be ranked above his own guys who he likes.

Actually, the original purpose of the belt system as devised by Kano was for handicapping in competitions. Nothing more nothing less. He copied it from Go, the oriental chess-like game.
 
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