Kimura throw, endless possibilities with limited defense?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by YeahBee, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    I am in love with kimuras, yes I am a big guy, it is technique that can be muscled and doesn't rely on agility, but let us have it, we are not pulling of staple submissions like armbars and triangles with the same rate as you hobbits

    And it is a very technical move with many applications and setups, if it is not a submission it is a sweep, but this thread is specifically about throwing with the kimura

    Basic


    nice concise description, you seem to run the risk of getting dumped forwards thou, correct? must be a great self defense move to, getting loose and applying it standing if possible

    Famously used by Sakuraba to break Renzos arm


    Another version would be a more judo type sacrifice throw
    Sumi gaeshi
    [​IMG]

    strange to see it as a catch move, wouldn't sacrifice throws pin yourself in wrestling?

    Karo has used this very much, one of the few people to take down GSP, and it was with this kinda throw

    unable to embed for some reason
    YouTube - Karo "The Heat" Parisyan Highlight
    GSP throw at 0.50, to a tap at 2minutes vs Dave Strasses
    his own tutorial


    pretty much the same throw as Billy Robinson, slightly different setup, Karo works to clear the arm, Billy just elbows the head to the right side:D, Karo makes a "judo" point of angling yourself (standing in a T something that judokas often do for entries into throws) in this case I think it helps to flip them over into a diagonal fall rahter then straight forward, Billy's guys are more square just slightly of centre

    Nate Diaz does it but lacks the control at the end
    [​IMG]
    IIRC Nate has used a kimura grip to throw haraigoshi aswell just like Karo but i can't seem to find any instructionals about that, but just like the basic/Saku variant, kimura + harai goshi/uchi mata or similar is dangerous because you could get dumped forward. But if the hip throw is stuffed you could try to go back for an osotogari
    [​IMG]
    (major outside reap), turn up so you are back in the T position (your feet in a 90 degrees angle from him)either sweep the leg on the same or hook it should be able to get alottta shoulder into it as you are so connected to him
    Nate tried to go for it standing several times but Joe Daddy had some sweet rolling firemans carry type stuff whenever Nate Diaz tried them to.

    Pretty funny that the guy himself KIMURA was thrown with it
    unable to embed
    YouTube - Rikidozan vs Masahiko Kimura (1954 - Part 1/2)
    at about 4.20(not a Bravo reference)
    I believe it is a fight vs Rikidozan

    I even see this version working even

    sorta yoko wakare if we use judo terms
    [​IMG]

    The defense I see working would be for the guy who is in the kimura to drive forward down, going into guard or even side control, but the great part is that if you still got the kimura grip you would still be in a good position, if you are in guard you work the kimura or hipbump/kimura sweep or working in a butterfly situp and try a seated version of the kimura sacrifice throw, if you are in side control you try to reverse by spinning out going away from him, as you got his arm in a kimura on that side he doesn't have a arm to post to stop it. But watch out for the armbar counter.

    Any body else who likes to play with kimura throws?

    Any variant I have missed? Some technical detail?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  2. rawpower

    rawpower Yellow Belt

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    That Nick Diaz clip reminds me of a move this dude at my gym does. He used to be a pro-wrestler and learned alot of weird shit when he lived in england. He has this really sneaky straight armbar he'll pull while on all fours and with you sprawled out in front of him.



    Only he will lock up the grip before he rolls and he'll do it when you only have one arm, instead of the two from the video. If he cant lock the sub, he takes top position from the scramble.

    I know this is not technically a kimura throw, but I would consider it in the same family as a kimura since its the same over/under grip, and the technique works similarly to a throw.
     
  3. Nefron

    Nefron Purple Belt

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    I have recently started doing this. Great shit.
     
  4. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    I do this all the time.

    Not really threatening with the lock, so thanks for the post as it's another option I can explore.
     
  5. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    It's only a pin in wrestling if he stays on top of you with both your shoulders on the mat.

    Billy Robinson gets Jake Shannon to show it in that video, but it's Billy Robinson who taught Sakuraba catch wrestling in Japan.
     
  6. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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  7. Disastorm

    Disastorm White Belt

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    Just thought it would be suitable to post a vid of Kimura himself doing the Kimura throw:
    its at 0:20 and shown again in detail at 6:49



    I've never used this since my judo class doesn't allow armbars until brown belt level, but just looking at the various techniques, this has always been one of my favorites and I have been looking forward to throwing people with it once I'm high enough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  8. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    I think there's video of Mark / Dave Schultz doing this in a wrestling match.
     
  9. Chillout010

    Chillout010 Grrrr!!

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    I love this move as well. I just call it "The Sakuraba" though.
     
  10. RJ Green

    RJ Green Black Belt

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    this is on the list of "throws I like to do but don't because people get hurt trying to defend against them"

    i mean, if they don't go over, they faceplant, and they're getting kimura-ed...

    i think it's still legit in judo too? like, not in that 'flying armbar' gray area that exists in the mind of bad refs?

    i'd definitely use it in BJJ, but that's because i don't know shit about BJJ
     
  11. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Awesome post Yeahbee. I love the kimura grip sumi gaeshi, gonna try that sometime.
     
  12. Supereem

    Supereem Black Belt

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    Cheers for the amazing thread! I love this move!
     
  13. An end for

    An end for Purple Belt

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    That's insane. I always knew it the kimura could be used for sweeping, but I never imagined it could be such a throw! I just gotta try this.
     
  14. unearth187

    unearth187 Blue Belt

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    ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  15. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I got more to add tomm. Thanks for finally making a good thread. Someone had to do it. I haven't had to urge to look through anything here in almost a week.

    Skip to 1:20 for the Kimura throws (Sumi Gaeshi, Osoto Gari, Harai Goshi, Tai Otoshi)

     
  16. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I got more to add tomm. Thanks for finally making a good thread. Someone had to do it. I haven't had to urge to look through anything here in almost a week.

    Skip to 1:20 for the Kimura throws (Sumi Gaeshi, Osoto Gari, Harai Goshi, Tai Otoshi)

     
  17. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Nate Diaz has done MANY Harai Goshi throws with the Kimura grip. He's done a few without them too. Two were beautiful, and most people here have seen the one on Neer. Another was on Joe Daddy. He's done at least 3 with the Kimura grip that I can think of clearly. Maybe more. The problem is that nobody ever GIFs them up for some reason. I'll hunt tomorrow and see if I can find a couple.
     
  18. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    The great thing about having the kimura lock is that if the throw fails, you can chain it with an armbar, like Mitsuhiro Ishida did to Justin Wilcox.
     
  19. CrazyJHL

    CrazyJHL Brown Belt

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    As a larger guy I usually angle for a Kimura, mainly because it's what I have the most success with, so for me this is really awesome. I'll have to find a time where I can try this out, probably have someone at the gym walk my through it step by step.
     
  20. Belatucadros

    Belatucadros Brown Belt

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    Yeah I thought that's what the first video was going to show to be honest, haha.
    Honestly it seems like a bit of a forced makkikomi or something though, just a bit more brutal for your uke. I haven't drilled it much.


    Anyway, this version here:
    [​IMG]

    I like a lot. One of our judo instructors really likes it.

    Buddy of mine grabbed me with that grip last week, and I couldn't break it immediately, so I just did the throw myself. Same thing except he had the grip on me. I was hoping it would shock him and he'd lose the grip when we hit the mat.

    Unfortunately he wasn't at all phased and moved immediately to finish...but it looked cool at least ;\
     

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