Media Khamzat Chimaev or Poatan - Who's more likely to be in the top 10 all-time rankings?

[SalvadorAllende]

ChimaGOAT is already the GOAT.

 

[josh345]

Poatan for sure

I personally don't buy it, I don't think Khamzat is that far ahead of the pack, I said before the DDP fight that DDP was going to get embarrassed. Anytime Khamzat has fought someone with good TDD or really good BJJ he has struggled, aside from the Whittaker fight which was a freak injury and the 17 second KO against GM3 which didn't show us much.

The issue for Khamzat will be finishing fights. His ability to finish fights doesn't seem great against the elite. So until proven otherwise it's hard to side with him. He has a lot of flaws that will make championship fights hard to win. He dominated DDP as I expected, but his actual performance was not that impressive to me. If he had true top 10 skill, he would've finished that fight in the first two rounds, that told us a lot about him even if most viewers don't yet understand it.

It's very hard to win at the elite level with Khamzat's style. Every now and then you'll get a Merab or GSP who break the rules, but winning strictly through control time & takedowns is not a valid strategy against most elite fighters. Khamzat doesn't have the discipline or cardio of those guys, and he's not as good a striker as GSP.

When GSP had to fight the Shields, Hendricks, and Koschecks of the world the fights looked VERY different, Koscheck even took down GSP. The difference was GSP could rely on his striking to win even when the grappling wasn't going to be very effective. Khamzat has not shown anything like that against the elite imo. We also have to factor in that Khamzat would need many years to put together a top 10 resume, with his age now he's already at the near expiration date of his quick & explosive grappling style. So even if you believe that Khamzat could theoretically beat most guys in the top 10, he likely won't even fight them. Other fighters will catch up quickly with the time he takes between fights.


So basically, Khamzat has no chance of becoming an all-time top 10 fighter, you have to give the nod to Poatan just off more achievements and possibly some great potential wins in his future if things go his way. Khamzat is playing catchup to Poatan now, yet he likely won't age anywhere near as well or fight as often. Poatan could stop fighting today and he would likely still have a greater case when all things were said and done. Khabib retired young, GSP retired young, Merab is a freak who is historically active. Khamzat lost a lot of prime years that may have placed him among the top 20 fighters, but it seems like that ship has sailed. If he can defend the MW title a few times he can still become a top 3-5 MW.

Khamzat: 0%

Poatan: 5-10% (would likely need to defend once more, defeat Jones, then win the HW title to have an undisputed spot in the top 10).

Even if Poatan could do all of those things, he still would get shit because Jones is old, the HW division is historically bad, and Ulberg isn't that great of a fighter. When you understand this you realize Khamzat has ZERO chance of getting into the top 10.

I don't know if I would call Whittaker a freak injury. Khamzat did that to him. But you made some good points . I think khamzat could be top 10 and go undefeated the rest of his career so I voted him. Alex is top 15 for me though. Lot of respect for Alex.

 

[jeff7b9]

Some of my favorite bits. "Why would you say that?"


Mitch, like Norm, had a special mind. It just "worked funny" while at the same time being sharper and more in touch with actual reality than most normal people. Heard a Mitch anecdote recently that cemented that for me.

Shame Mitch didn't live longer.

His odd view of the world and his weird ways for saying things stick in my head.

I will forever think of him any time I see an elevator become stairs, or if I have rice because I am in the mood to have 2000 of something.

It's the "no competition" problem. When the actual inept morons at PFL who have a money spigot but are still failing are your only competition, you can more or less do whatever you want. Decentralization or death!

Yup yup.

It's a monopoly.

I have to assume there was corruption or bribery involved in whatever court rulings that set a legal precedent to pretend otherwise.

The sport was better when there was competition.
Besides all those great fights in those orgs (Pride, Affliction, EliteXC, WEC, Stirkeforce, SuperBrawl, IFL) it kept the UFC accountable to at least SOME degree and force them to try to compete in terms of the quality of their product

Now they k own that a certain baseline minimum will turn in every Saturday to "watch UFC" even if they out on a dogshit card with no audience and no energy or excitement.

I don't understand why there are people who insist on pretending like it doesn't matter if there is a crowd. That excitement and volume and energy is a big part of the experience. If a guy gets a KO or a comeback or fights thru adversity and the crowd goes nuts and the building shakes, that matters, that is part of the experience. That gasp when a big shot lands or when the screen shows a dudes face is gushing blood... even the booing, the chants, all that shit, that makes the sport feel alive and meaningful.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Shame Mitch didn't live longer.

His odd view of the world and his weird ways for saying things stick in my head.

I will forever think of him any time I see an elevator become stairs, or if I have rice because I am in the mood to have 2000 of something.

Him ODing was a tragedy. Guy would still be going strong now. Him and Norm were two of my favorites of all time as I love that irreverent, observational style.

Yup yup.

It's a monopoly.

I have to assume there was corruption or bribery involved in whatever court rulings that set a legal precedent to pretend otherwise.

The issue has always been that as long as they have some competition in the US like PFL, they aren't a monopoly. Once PFL folds, there might be a reemerging discussion IMO

I don't understand why there are people who insist on pretending like it doesn't matter if there is a crowd. That excitement and volume and energy is a big part of the experience. If a guy gets a KO or a comeback or fights thru adversity and the crowd goes nuts and the building shakes, that matters, that is part of the experience. That gasp when a big shot lands or when the screen shows a dudes face is gushing blood... even the booing, the chants, all that shit, that makes the sport feel alive and meaningful.

Here's the thing, there WOULD be a crowd, I would be doing PBP updates live from every fight night if the tickets weren't more expensive than PPV tickets

 

[markg171]

Poatan is already the #2 LHW of all time, and a 2 division champ on top of that. He's at least top 20 already while Khamzat isn't even top 300.

What the fuck kinda nonsense is this

 

[TJ Dillashank]

How is LHW weaker than MW? Pereria just beat everybody there is good to fight . MW I would argue is worse or equal to lhw.

At MW we have Imavov, Fluffy, Allen, Caio, and even though he recently lost DeRidder. At LHW there isn't anyone highly ranked other than Ulberg who Alex has already easily beaten.

 

[Subline]

Khamzat even if it might not seem it yet, people will change their tune once he starts racking those defenses up.

 

[volcom5]

Pereira is already in the top 10, he overtook whatever position Wanderlei Silva was in, if he even was in.