Khabib's father about Jon Jones

[mkess101]

I agree with you, but the only one who can compare to Jones is really Silva. At age 37, Jones is finishing the last guy to hold a title and the other guy who contended for the title at a weight class above. GSP fought Bisping and left quickly. Fedor fell off before he was even 35 I think. Even Silva started slipping with the Chael performances.

Still Jones wrestling looks pretty good at HW, especially compared to the rest of the division right now. Aspinall has defended 2 takedowns in round 1 against a last minute Spivac without a training camp, and that's the extent of his TDD history in the UFC. Yet people have shrugged it off as "well he's a huge guy with size to make up for it" or "he's a BJJ blackbelt". To me, that's the bigger question of the potential matchup. Jones has dealt with faster power boxers before, but Aspinall has dealt with no one the level of Jones wrestling. Even Blaydes didn't shoot a single takedown in both fights with Aspinall.

The thing Jones hasn't dealt with is a much bigger guy that still has the speed advantage. And hits like a true HW. Younger, bigger, AND faster are massive obstacles to overcome. For anyone, including all time greats.

It's definitely fair to say Aspinall's TDD is largely unproven. There's some things that can be extrapolated from what we've seen: he's big and athletic and moves like a smaller guy, so his natural physical gifts are gonna make him tough to take down in general. Obviously Jones is a pretty special grappler, so this isn't Spivak we're talking about.

 

[Tweak896]

The thing Jones hasn't dealt with is a much bigger guy that still has the speed advantage. And hits like a true HW. Younger, bigger, AND faster are massive obstacles to overcome. For anyone, including all time greats.

It's definitely fair to say Aspinall's TDD is largely unproven. There's some things that can be extrapolated from what we've seen: he's big and athletic and moves like a smaller guy, so his natural physical gifts are gonna make him tough to take down in general. Obviously Jones is a pretty special grappler, so this isn't Spivak we're talking about.

I mean to be fair, that was the exact thing being said before Gane fight. Gane is a true HW with speed, where Jones is a fat LHW. No one expected Gane to KO him like Aspinall, but there was so many predicting how a real HW would beat Jones at his own game. Maybe they were right? Jones took Gane straight down and didn't engage in kickboxing with the guy.

I'm not trying to hate on Aspinall, just hating on fans who change their opinion on fighters after they get "exposed". Aspinall does look athletic and not easy to take down. His breakdowns of Jones shows he's very intelligent when he breaks down the fight game. Jones or no Jones, he looks like the future of HW whether he wins or loses. But essentially he's still a striker going against a grappler who took down everyone he's wanted including DC. Not to mention it's clear Aspinall has had knee issues that aren't known for ever really going back 100%.

I just think in the scenario Jones wins, how quickly the narrative will shift to "Jones ducked HW when it was filled with the best guys". So ultimately there is no winning people over for Jones and it was telling after beating Gane. Jones does have so much mileage on him that you don't really know how he'll look against a prime HW. If Jones loses to me as a fan, it's no different than Silva or Fedor losing at the end of their career, except Jones is doing it a giant weight class higher.

 

[mkess101]

I mean to be fair, that was the exact thing being said before Gane fight. Gane is a true HW with speed, where Jones is a fat LHW. No one expected Gane to KO him like Aspinall, but there was so many predicting how a real HW would beat Jones at his own game. Maybe they were right? Jones took Gane straight down and didn't engage in kickboxing with the guy.

I'm not trying to hate on Aspinall, just hating on fans who change their opinion on fighters after they get "exposed". Aspinall does look athletic and not easy to take down. His breakdowns of Jones shows he's very intelligent when he breaks down the fight game. Jones or no Jones, he looks like the future of HW whether he wins or loses. But essentially he's still a striker going against a grappler who took down everyone he's wanted including DC. Not to mention it's clear Aspinall has had knee issues that aren't known for ever really going back 100%.

I just think in the scenario Jones wins, how quickly the narrative will shift to "Jones ducked HW when it was filled with the best guys". So ultimately there is no winning people over for Jones and it was telling after beating Gane. Jones does have so much mileage on him that you don't really know how he'll look against a prime HW. If Jones loses to me as a fan, it's no different than Silva or Fedor losing at the end of their career, except Jones is doing it a giant weight class higher.

Sure, some people said that about Gane. And to be fair, he does move fluently for a big guy. It's been pretty apparent he doesn't have the speed Aspinall has, and I think if we look at Gane/Volkov 2 and then Aspinall/Volkov we can see a pretty massive grappling disparity in Aspinall and Gane.

But yeah I'm not a Jones hater (as a fighter, I think as a person he's got some shortcomings for sure LOL). Like I said at his peak he's the best I've seen in my 26 years following the sport. But he's not the same guy at his age and at HW. Still damn good, but not like he was.

 

[Tweak896]

Sure, some people said that about Gane. And to be fair, he does move fluently for a big guy. It's been pretty apparent he doesn't have the speed Aspinall has, and I think if we look at Gane/Volkov 2 and then Aspinall/Volkov we can see a pretty massive grappling disparity in Aspinall and Gane.

But yeah I'm not a Jones hater (as a fighter, I think as a person he's got some shortcomings for sure LOL). Like I said at his peak he's the best I've seen in my 26 years following the sport. But he's not the same guy at his age and at HW. Still damn good, but not like he was.

Not a fan of him as a person same lol, but I've seen so much here just dismiss anything he does. Every single win was pathetic by people here. Jones also never got injured to not show up for fights before Stipe, and I think it was a real injury because why would he duck Stipe or need more time? So Jones knows where he's at in his career physically and mentally, but he's definitely not exactly the guy he was in his peak.

However counternote, the HW division right now is one of the worst of all time and Jones has more skills than almost every fighter combined to do well. Lets say Jones beats Aspinall definitively, what's even stopping him from the rest of the division? Actually same for Tom as well. Beyond this fight is maybe Almeida or Gane, then nothing but can matches like Pride is back lol. Maybe Tuivasa can return to the top 5 again.

 

[mkess101]

Not a fan of him as a person same lol, but I've seen so much here just dismiss anything he does. Every single win was pathetic by people here. Jones also never got injured to not show up for fights before Stipe, and I think it was a real injury because why would he duck Stipe or need more time? So Jones knows where he's at in his career physically and mentally, but he's definitely not exactly the guy he was in his peak.

However counternote, the HW division right now is one of the worst of all time and Jones has more skills than almost every fighter combined to do well. Lets say Jones beats Aspinall definitively, what's even stopping him from the rest of the division? Actually same for Tom as well. Beyond this fight is maybe Almeida or Gane, then nothing but can matches like Pride is back lol. Maybe Tuivasa can return to the top 5 again.

Oh HW is weak AF. That's why it's hard to get a completely true read on Tom. It's not like Spivak and Tybura are trash, they just aren't top 5 type guys (or shouldn't be). Blaydes is actually good. Athletic, fast for a big guy, good wrestler obviously. His chin is of course the issue with him. On one hand with Tom it's like "HW is weak!" On the other hand...dude isn't winning split decisions here on his streak. He's starching EVERYONE inside a round. Like a basketball team and someone says "Meh, they aren't that great. They haven't beaten any really great teams." And the other person says "Yeah okay but they've played decent teams and won every game by 40 points..."

Almeida is the one guy that at least presents a unique challenge. Relentless grappler and while a smallish HW, functionally super strong. I'd say I'd be most interested in him vs the winner of Jones/Aspinall if they fight.

 

[Aurelian]

Your infantile logic probably thinks that Rocky Marciano is the GOAT boxer rather than Ali too.

Fact is that Fedors resume across his first 33 fights is more impressive than Jones first 31 fights.

Fedor did that in 10 years and fought the same number of top 10 opponents and legends, if not more. He also did it as the smaller fighter where as Jones has had the height and/or reach advantage in every fight, pissed hot multiple times, admits to cheating with eye pokes and has taken 17 years and still hasn't even fought 33 fights.

These are straight facts.

Fedors resume across his first 33 fights is more impressive than Jones first 31 fights

Fedor fought in an org known for fixing fights. How much of his legacy is legit is in question. We do know that once he started fighting in Strikeforce he got finished in 3 straight fights all before he was 35 years old.

 

[Tweak896]

Oh HW is weak AF. That's why it's hard to get a completely true read on Tom. It's not like Spivak and Tybura are trash, they just aren't top 5 type guys (or shouldn't be). Blaydes is actually good. Athletic, fast for a big guy, good wrestler obviously. His chin is of course the issue with him. On one hand with Tom it's like "HW is weak!" On the other hand...dude isn't winning split decisions here on his streak. He's starching EVERYONE inside a round. Like a basketball team and someone says "Meh, they aren't that great. They haven't beaten any really great teams." And the other person says "Yeah okay but they've played decent teams and won every game by 40 points..."

Almeida is the one guy that at least presents a unique challenge. Relentless grappler and while a smallish HW, functionally super strong. I'd say I'd be most interested in him vs the winner of Jones/Aspinall if they fight.

Before the Almeida fight, everyone almost unanimously called Blaydes the best wrestler at HW. Then Almeida just ragdolls this guy for a round like he's never wrestled in his life. I don't mean to hate Blaydes, but he's not a top striker or wrestler, and fails to really blend in both, and like you said his chin. Definitely opened my eyes about the HW division after that fight. Also, I forget that Ngannou was able to deal with Blaydes wrestling, but not Stipe's afterwards.

It's a real shame that Aspinall basically has 2 guys left to make his name at HW now that he hasn't beat, Almeida and Gane. Tom is going to stand with Almeida and try and take down Gane. Can't blame him, but the landscape is really empty now. Some people think Volkov can earn a rematch, but that's still sort of meh to me.

People including me want this fight now or very soon, but the sad reality is HW is pretty empty now and after we get this over with, not sure I'm even to be excited for any more fights I can think of.

 

[Luffy]

The thing Jones hasn't dealt with is a much bigger guy that still has the speed advantage. And hits like a true HW. Younger, bigger, AND faster are massive obstacles to overcome. For anyone, including all time greats.

It's definitely fair to say Aspinall's TDD is largely unproven. There's some things that can be extrapolated from what we've seen: he's big and athletic and moves like a smaller guy, so his natural physical gifts are gonna make him tough to take down in general. Obviously Jones is a pretty special grappler, so this isn't Spivak we're talking about.

Cyril Gane....

 

[mkess101]

Before the Almeida fight, everyone almost unanimously called Blaydes the best wrestler at HW. Then Almeida just ragdolls this guy for a round like he's never wrestled in his life. I don't mean to hate Blaydes, but he's not a top striker or wrestler, and fails to really blend in both, and like you said his chin. Definitely opened my eyes about the HW division after that fight. Also, I forget that Ngannou was able to deal with Blaydes wrestling, but not Stipe's afterwards.

It's a real shame that Aspinall basically has 2 guys left to make his name at HW now that he hasn't beat, Almeida and Gane. Tom is going to stand with Almeida and try and take down Gane. Can't blame him, but the landscape is really empty now. Some people think Volkov can earn a rematch, but that's still sort of meh to me.

People including me want this fight now or very soon, but the sad reality is HW is pretty empty now and after we get this over with, not sure I'm even to be excited for any more fights I can think of.

The good news for Tom is that KO's and dominance can build a brand. For us diehards...yeah we're gonna need some prospects that look like they'll pose a real threat. But once Jones is gone, the UFC will get behind marketing Aspinall. Their marketing machine is unreal. If he keeps knocking dudes out, they'll make him a known star. You and I will maybe see him as a -600 favorite over a Volkov in a rematch or something and be like "Yeah...we know what happens here" but casuals will be getting their first views of Tom and think "holy shit this dude is amazing!"

 

[mkess101]

Cyril Gane....

Is not as fast or powerful as Aspinall and it's not close.

I'll ask again: can you show me that Jones/Aspinall line you claimed had Jones -400 ? Still waiting. I posted the actual opening line and now you've gone silent on that front. Hmm...

 

[Lee Danger]

Khabib's father said a bs, it's normal: none is perfect.

 

[Tweak896]

The good news for Tom is that KO's and dominance can build a brand. For us diehards...yeah we're gonna need some prospects that look like they'll pose a real threat. But once Jones is gone, the UFC will get behind marketing Aspinall. Their marketing machine is unreal. If he keeps knocking dudes out, they'll make him a known star. You and I will maybe see him as a -600 favorite over a Volkov in a rematch or something and be like "Yeah...we know what happens here" but casuals will be getting their first views of Tom and think "holy shit this dude is amazing!"

True. It'll be nice to have new stars, I just hope Aspinall doesn't become champ and get the same curse every HW champ gets, where he's inactive too. Think about what we've suffered from. 3 years of Stipe/DC trilogy, Ngannou's 2 champ fights then negotiations, and now Jones 2 champ fights then negotiations. That's 2018 until 2025, 7 years for 7 fights. Damn and I thought boxing was down bad.

 

[mkess101]

True. It'll be nice to have new stars, I just hope Aspinall doesn't become champ and get the same curse every HW champ gets, where he's inactive too. Think about what we've suffered from. 3 years of Stipe/DC trilogy, Ngannou's 2 champ fights then negotiations, and now Jones 2 champ fights then negotiations. That's 2018 until 2025, 7 years for 7 fights. Damn and I thought boxing was down bad.

Agree. And I think that's part of why people are frustrated now. Ideally we get Jones/Aspinall by fall. But if not, and Jones wants to retire or hell even vacate and go back to LHW...let's go! Move forward!

 

[Luffy]

Is not as fast or powerful as Aspinall and it's not close.

I'll ask again: can you show me that Jones/Aspinall line you claimed had Jones -400 ? Still waiting. I posted the actual opening line and now you've gone silent on that front. Hmm...

Yeah? Still, he beat the — then considered fastest and most technical striker who had also a big KO power. So, the narrative that JJ has no chance vs big, fast and powerful HWs is bulls. Aspinall is faster, possibly packs more power, but we don't know how he'd do in a stand up fight vs Gane... Gane has a very good technique in the stand up. So I'm talking about the narrative of... Gane was faster, more powerful and a natural HW muscular type , which JJ was not.Yet, Gane, seen them as the new HW era, was easily defeated. Now, there is a faster, possibly with more KO power striker than Gane, but to say JJ is unlikely to defeat him, is to be naive and ignore the Gane fight, which had odds basically even too (Gane was the favourite initially, but in the week of the fight, JJ pulled slightly ahead in the odds)... So, if Gane were faster and had more KO power, then he'd beat JJ? Be consistent.

 

[mkess101]

Yeah? Still, he beat the — then considered fastest and most technical striker who had also a big KO power. So, the narrative that JJ has no chance vs big, fast and powerful HWs is bulls. Aspinall is faster, possibly packs more power, but we don't know how he'd do in a stand up fight vs Gane... Gane has a very good technique in the stand up. So I'm talking about the narrative of... Gane was faster, more powerful and a natural HW muscular type , which JJ was not.Yet, Gane, seen them as the new HW era, was easily defeated. Now, there is a faster, possibly with more KO power striker than Gane, but to say JJ is unlikely to defeat him, is to be naive and ignore the Gane fight, which had odds basically even too (Gane was the favourite initially, but in the week of the fight, JJ pulled slightly ahead in the odds)... So, if Gane were faster and had more KO power, then he'd beat JJ? Be consistent.

Why do you keep ducking when I ask you to back up your claim that Jones was ever a -400 favorite (or even close) vs Aspinall? I've asked what now, 4 times at least? And you ignore it. YOU made the claim, I'm calling you out as making shit up. How about you reply to this?

 

[EYEKICKFACES]

One more person in a line of about 8 billion long whose opinion about Jon Jones I could care less about.

Interesting......how much less could you care? Also, why is it that you care so much?

 

[Luffy]

Why do you keep ducking when I ask you to back up your claim that Jones was ever a -400 favorite (or even close) vs Aspinall? I've asked what now, 4 times at least? And you ignore it. YOU made the claim, I'm calling you out as making shit up. How about you reply to this?

Check for yourself and you will see it is true. If you can't find, them I'll dig up the link which shows I'm not making this one up.

 

[Luffy]

Interesting......how much less could you care? Also, why is it that you care so much?

Wow!! Cooked him!

 

[mkess101]

Check for yourself and you will see it is true. If you can't find, them I'll dig up the link which shows I'm not making this one up.

Dude you're absolutely full of shit. I posted the opening line already. It's from BFO that tracks ALL the books. Here it is again:

https://www.bestfightodds.com/fighters/Jon-Jones-819

It SHOWS the opening line for Jones/Aspinall. "Check for yourself" LMAO? I'm literally showing you that you're completely wrong. Is this where you admit you make shit up? Or do you keep digging?

 

[Luffy]

At the end of the year there needs to be a worst poster of the year category to vote on. Whoever wins gets banned.

Wow, if that were done by a fair and unbiased analysis, without any attachment to fighters or anything, you'd be a huge favourite for the #1 bull shit poster. You'd get the famous "this guy is the #1 bull shit poster "