Khabib vs Tony - Cardio & Finishing Ability

[fortheo]

Because you're not tired and can still whoop that ass on the ground? If you're not tired and can dominate the fight in one area it makes no sense not to do that unless you're tired and/or can't get the fight where you want it

Seems smarter to me if you win the round by expending less energy, just in case something unexpected happens that results in you needing to go balls to the wall to get the fight back.

Khabib himself has said "why do I need to finish a guy if I just smash him for 5 rounds?" he doesn't seem like he's in a rush.

 

[tdluxon]

Tony’s submissions, especially from weird positions, are one of the things that make him so dangerous, but it’s just hard to imagine khabib getting caught with a sub. If anyone could do it it’s probably tony but I just don’t see it happening.

If he can push the pace really hard though he may be able to finish khabib with strikes if he lands a big combo...

 

[fortheo]

That's fair. I'd encourage you to watch the end of the Barboza fight though. Khabib beat Edson up badly early in the fight. He secures s TD in rd 3 but Edson (who wasn't able to get to his feet or even effectively defend early when taken down) is able to get back to his feet and stay there for the final minute of the fight. In addition if you watch the footage after the fight Khabib is absolutely tired.

Because it was such an easy win for Khabib in its totality, this kind of thing gets overlooked. But I guarantee Khabib didn't want Edson back on his feet for the last minute of that fight. Khabib just didn't have the energy to keep him down.

barboza got up with 30 seconds left on the clock....then khabib chases him down for the last 30 seconds, and in those last 30 seconds, it's khabib with the most output. I don't know man. I don't see khabib gassing. After the bell, khabib takes one deep breath and then goes to talk to dana.

 

[mkess101]

Seems smarter to me if you win the round by expending less energy, just in case something unexpected happens that results in you needing to go balls to the wall to get the fight back.

Khabib himself has said "why do I need to finish a guy if I just smash him for 5 rounds?" he doesn't seem like he's in a rush.

I think its ridiculous to look at a fight with Conor or Iaquinta (neither of whom offer ANYTHING off their back) and think that Khabib wouldn't rather just have top position on them than stand. There is no question those guys offered more danger to Khabib standing than on their backs.

If he wasn't pursuing the TD in round 3, it was because he needed a break. If you have the energy to continue your typical gameplan, you don't then decide to stand where there's far more risk unless it's because the grappling has drained you and you need a breather.

 

[deviake]

Seems smarter to me if you win the round by expending less energy, just in case something unexpected happens that results in you needing to go balls to the wall to get the fight back.

So conserve energy because you might get tired, meaning you're at least worried about getting tired

Khabib himself has said "why do I need to finish a guy if I just smash him for 5 rounds?" he doesn't seem like he's in a rush.

The point you quoted goes against your argument because he didn't smash that round and lost the round

 

[fortheo]

I think its ridiculous to look at a fight with Conor or Iaquinta (neither of whom offer ANYTHING off their back) and think that Khabib wouldn't rather just have top position on them than stand. There is no question those guys offered more danger to Khabib standing than on their backs.

If he wasn't pursuing the TD in round 3, it was because he needed a break. If you have the energy to continue your typical gameplan, you don't then decide to stand where there's far more risk unless it's because the grappling has drained you and you need a breather.

Khabib's coaches say otherwise. It's well known that khabib actively choses to go against his coaches wishes. It wouldn't be the first time when a wrestler choses to stand with a guy for a bit instead of going straight to his bread and butter.

his coach talks about it all the time, but he says he can't do much about it because khabib keeps winning, so it's hard to say it's not working.

 

[mkess101]

barboza got up with 30 seconds left on the clock....then khabib chases him down for the last 30 seconds, and in those last 30 seconds, it's khabib with the most output. I don't know man. I don't see khabib gassing. After the bell, khabib takes one deep breath and then goes to talk to dana.

It's like 50 seconds iirc but regardless, Khabib didn't let him up to be nice LOL. Khabib chased him a bit trying to close distance and get out of kicking range yeah. Barboza was head hunting, looking for the kill shot. Khabib looks tired to me after the fight.

Again I don't think he has bad cardio. I think his style just uses a ton of it and he needs breaks.

 

[fortheo]

So conserve energy because you might get tired, meaning you're at least worried about getting tired


The point you quoted goes against your argument because he didn't smash that round and lost the round

I'm sure he thought he was winning in that round. He certainly didn't look tired

Conor looks tired. Khabib looks in control.

 

[NoSmilez]

Okay...why did he slow vs Iaquinta then? How was a beaten and exhausted Barboza still able to get out from under Khabib and spend the last minute of that fight head hunting on the feet? Khabib didn't go ballistic trying to finish either of those fights...

Look at Al's stance. Later in the fight he literally took a stance where he dipped low and placed all his weight on this front foot. In doing do, he sacrificed any effective offense in order to prevent a takedown. When you take a front foot heavy stance you also lean forward and unable dodge many punches. Look at the score card of 50-43? If you really think that is slowing down. I don't know what to say to you.
For the Barboza fight it was 30-25, 30-24. Slowing down to you means the opponent fights a losing one single 10-9 round or a 10-8 on all 3 rd?
I think everyone expects Khabib to dominate from start to finish and it becomes grasping at straws when someone manages to fight back?

 

[deviake]

I'm sure he thought he was winning in that round. He certainly didn't look tired

Conor looks tired. Khabib looks in control.

He looks like he's breathing through his mouth and he unanimously lost that round. Conor is always tired after the second round, that's irrelevant. Changing your argument and posting two gifs from five minutes doesn't mean anything

 

[fortheo]

It's like 50 seconds iirc but regardless, Khabib didn't let him up to be nice LOL. Khabib chased him a bit trying to close distance and get out of kicking range yeah. Barboza was head hunting, looking for the kill shot. Khabib looks tired to me after the fight.

Again I don't think he has bad cardio. I think his style just uses a ton of it and he needs breaks.

I never said khabib let barboza up man. I'm saying that even on the feet he was in control of the pace. Khabib didn't look tired to me after the fight. No more than a guy should look anyways. We disagree mate.

 

[fortheo]

He looks like he's breathing through his mouth and he unanimously lost that round. Conor is always tired after the second round, that's irrelevant. Changing your argument and posting two gifs from five minutes doesn't mean anything

I'm not changing my argument. You're just not disputing it. Just because he lost a round on the judges scorecards doesn't mean khabib didn't feel like he was in complete control of the fight, and it doesn't mean he was tired.

 

[mkess101]

Khabib's coaches say otherwise. It's well known that khabib actively choses to go against his coaches wishes. It wouldn't be the first time when a wrestler choses to stand with a guy for a bit instead of going straight to his bread and butter.

his coach talks about it all the time, but he says he can't do much about it because khabib keeps winning, so it's hard to say it's not working.

I think that sounds like typical camp-speak honestly. "Yeah our guy was dominating the first 2 rounds with gnp and we told him to keep doing it but he likes to box so he just ignores us for a round...then goes back to his normal syle". You can believe that of you want. I obviously can't prove thats BS, but it sure smells like it to me.

 

[-Magua-]

I think its ridiculous to look at a fight with Conor or Iaquinta (neither of whom offer ANYTHING off their back) and think that Khabib wouldn't rather just have top position on them than stand. There is no question those guys offered more danger to Khabib standing than on their backs.

If he wasn't pursuing the TD in round 3, it was because he needed a break. If you have the energy to continue your typical gameplan, you don't then decide to stand where there's far more risk unless it's because the grappling has drained you and you need a breather.

I dunno that’s the round where he just started standing right in front of Conor, (not quite walking him down) but he didn’t appear to display the reverence he had for Connie’s power, that he had showed in between smashing Connie in round 2, and well in round 1 the majority Connie was grounded.

In the third, he just stood right in front of him, even smacked him 209 style.
He didn’t really appear labored, just seems like he was conserving. I think it’s also a natural thing that he does possibly slow down naturally as well... but he’s used to it. I would think years of competing, since 8 years old...prolly learn a thing or two.

 

[fortheo]

I think that sounds like typical camp-speak honestly. "Yeah our guy was dominating the first 2 rounds with gnp and we told him to keep doing it but he likes to box so he just ignores us for a round...then goes back to his normal syle". You can believe that of you want. I obviously can't prove thats BS, but it sure smells like it to me.

You literally see javier screaming at khabib in between rounds to stop fucking around against AI....Regardless, if you bet money on fights, then go with your own opinion man. I'm not a fight guru lol

 

[mkess101]

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I never said khabib let barboza up man. I'm saying that even on the feet he was in control of the pace. Khabib didn't look tired to me after the fight. No more than a guy should look anyways. We disagree mate.

Yeah my point was more that early in the fight, with both guys fresh, Barboza wasn't getting up. He was getting smashed. End of the fight, both guys tired (and Barboza beaten), Khabib isn't able to keep him down.

With Tony you have a guy with better cardio and 10 more minutes to show off that better cardio.

 

[fortheo]

Yeah my point was more that early in the fight, with both guys fresh, Barboza wasn't getting up. He was getting smashed. End of the fight, both guys tired (and Barboza beaten), Khabib isn't able to keep him down.

With Tony you have a guy with better cardio and 10 more minutes to show off that better cardio.

Yes, I agree, and 10 more minutes for khabib to regain control.

 

[mkess101]

I dunno that’s the round where he just started standing right in front of Conor, (not quite walking him down) but he didn’t appear to display the reverence he had for Connie’s power, that he had showed in between smashing Connie in round 2, and well in round 1 the majority Connie was grounded.

In the third, he just stood right in front of him, even smacked him 209 style.
He didn’t really appear labored, just seems like he was conserving. I think it’s also a natural thing that he does possibly slow down naturally as well... but he’s used to it. I would think years of competing, since 8 years old...prolly learn a thing or two.

I think absolutely he feared Conor's power less in rd 3 than rd 1. For sure you are right imo.

That said, there's ZERO risk when Conor is on his back. None. If Khabib wasn't tired at all, I think he takes Conor down again in rd 3 and likely finishes then.

 

[deviake]

I'm not changing my argument. You're just not disputing it. Just because he lost a round on the judges scorecards doesn't mean khabib didn't feel like he was in complete control of the fight, and it doesn't mean he was tired.

Well, he lost the round so he wasn't in control that round. Your argument started here:

Why expend more pressure than you need to if you're still winning by doing less?

If he wanted to smash Conor for five rounds (not four) taking a round off wasn't the way to do it. If he wasn't tired and could have had his way with Conor then it makes no sense to take a round off and lose that round, especially given that Conor was tired and thus vulnerable. If he was worried about getting tired or Conor catching him with something and that's why he took it off versus being outright tired then he wasn't in control. The problem with your argument is that there's absolutely no reason for him to lose a round unless he wasn't in full control. There's no reasoning to bridge the gap from A to B.

This isn't quantum physics, it's 1+1 kinda stuff

 

[mkess101]

Yes, I agree, and 10 more minutes for khabib to regain control.

Assuming he's not at a big energy disadvantage by then...yeah...could happen. The cardio gap between he and Tony could be less than I think it is.