Khabib Nurmagomedov needs that BJJ Black Belt.

[DatSamboKid]

Khabib fought 6 fights in the UFC and only managed to finish one by submission on his debut against a nobody.

For someone that lands so many takedowns in every fight, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that he needs to sharpen his submission game to dramatically increase his finishing rate.

Boom. /thread my own thread

 

[Marimbondo]

I'm pretty sure Khabib actually train BJJ, at least when he is AKA and not throwing and pinning bears in Dagestan. He even said he would like to fight in a ADCC event someday.

 

[Ishaq]

Boom. /thread my own thread

Sambo is mainly a takedown art, since it attempted to merge Judo and Wrestling which are primarily focused on takedowns.

BJJ is a ground art which has a far less focus on takedowns. A Sambo artist with a BJJ ground game would be legendary. A BJJ artist with a solid takedown game would also be legendary.

What is so difficult for these people to see that these styles complement each other?

 

[Thai Otoshi]

the problem is that he seems to have problems achieving that...

But what would BJJ teach him that judo newaza wouldn't?

The ability to hold someone down for an extended period of time (aka pinning) is an important aspect of judo newaza.

 

[Kaffe]

He should aim for the black belt of +2 top control. If he also got a hold of the rashguard of +1 submission initiative he'd be beastly.

 

[Bubblun]

Khabib fought 6 fights in the UFC and only managed to finish one by submission on his debut against a nobody.

For someone that lands so many takedowns in every fight, it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that he needs to sharpen his submission game to dramatically increase his finishing rate.

tell that to Demian Maia.
during his last fight he managed to stay in full mount for 12 minutes but he couldn't finish.
he only attempted one submission, a shy armbar, because the other guy just grabbed him, the first bad habit that bjj masters want white belts to forget.
funny, even Brian Stann was amazed because a new guy managed to survive 3 rounds under the full mount of one of the best bjj practictioner ever in mma... but the guy just used a white belt habit to save his ass.

all this to tell that it isn't easy to submit guy in an mma fight if the guy doesn't expose himself.
without the gi there aren't a lot of options, even from the most dominant positions.


i remember listening to a Werdum interview before the Browne fight and he said that everybody has good technique in the UFC, today fights are won thanks to conditioning.

 

[Chungungo]

I'm 2 stripe brown in BJJ and Khabib doesn't need shit. The guy is grappling killer! This is a stupid argument.

Yeah well, that

 

[Chungungo]

You guys are getting my words mixed up or I'm the one who explained myself wrong. What I mean is BJJ is a martial art which 80% of its work is on the ground. That's not the case in Sambo, nor it is in Judo and Wrestling. Sambo, Judo and Wrestling are way more orientated towards throwing\taking your opponent down which Khabib is amazing at. But if I try to critic my favorite fighter, and try to point out where he can be better, I see BJJ being a key point in making him the most dominant LW fighter in the history of the UFC. Look at the majority of Khabib's fights in the UFC, most of his takedowns\throws are on or near the fence and usually his opponent uses the cage to get back up, only to get thrown down again. I'd like to see khabib once he took his opponent, keep him there, don't let him get up, pass guards, get in a dominant position, GNP the shit out of him or go for a submission and finish him. I don't want him to be a decision fighter. His wrestling, clinching and throws are so good, BJJ would only make him so much for lethal.

I don't train in the US, I train in Canada and my coach is 100% Sambo Master and Judo Black-Belt, he is born in Ukraine, fought in European Sambo tournaments.

Well crosstraining helps of course but he doesn

 

[BJJ_Rage]

But what would BJJ teach him that judo newaza wouldn't?

The ability to hold someone down for an extended period of time (aka pinning) is an important aspect of judo newaza.

hmmm... haven't you read all the posts before this? is not about pinning, is about being able to attack on the ground (aka pass guard -->move to better positions) without losing position... call it what you want, judo newaza, bjj catch wrestling, what ever, point is he has to sharpen his ground skills (by the way, bjjers are miles away in the ground deparment compared to modern judo guys)

 

[BJJ_Rage]

tell that to Demian Maia.
during his last fight he managed to stay in full mount for 12 minutes but he couldn't finish.
he only attempted one submission, a shy armbar, because the other guy just grabbed him, the first bad habit that bjj masters want white belts to forget.
funny, even Brian Stann was amazed because a new guy managed to survive 3 rounds under the full mount of one of the best bjj practictioner ever in mma... but the guy just used a white belt habit to save his ass.

all this to tell that it isn't easy to submit guy in an mma fight if the guy doesn't expose himself.
without the gi there aren't a lot of options, even from the most dominant positions.


i remember listening to a Werdum interview before the Browne fight and he said that everybody has good technique in the UFC, today fights are won thanks to conditioning.

I agree that maia played it ultra conservative, but the dude he was going against is not a rookie by any means... Anyways, maia got to full mount and stayed there or at least in sidecontrol --> mount for a very extended period of time, khabib doesnt get to dominant positions very often, he does however drags your ass back down as soon as he loses position..

 

[Sexy Pants]

Yeah well, that

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Just like Askren did, he was an elite wrestler, who added BJJ to his arsenal. Now he is a Brown Belt in BJJ, who not only will take your ass down to the ground but he will keep you there and work on passing guards and setting up a submission. Ben Askren is no fucking joke at 170, when Dana will take the stick out of his ass and sign this guy, he will be getting a title shot in not too long.

If Khabib gets really serious with his BJJ game, this kid will really be unstoppable.

I think you are arguing Appless vs Oranges here. For starters, Askrens MMA game and ability to keep people on the mat has little (or a lot less) to do with his BJJ Brown belt and a lot to do with his style of wrestling. Which is American Folkstyle. He is known for his incredible pinning ability (he holds the single-season NCAA pin record).

Khabib is known for his Freestyle wrestling which has a much less emphasis on pinning and a HUGE emphasis on high altitude throws. You can stall out on the ground in Freestyle rather quickly and earn a stand up.

So really, maybe Khabib needs a little work on his American Folkstyle.


But really, let's not be silly.

 

[Thai Otoshi]

hmmm... haven't you read all the posts before this? is not about pinning, is about being able to attack on the ground (aka pass guard -->move to better positions) without losing position... call it what you want, judo newaza, bjj catch wrestling, what ever, point is he has to sharpen his ground skills (by the way, bjjers are miles away in the ground deparment compared to modern judo guys)

I'll give you the last bit, but if he already trains in two jacket wrestling based submission grappling styles (judo and sambo), and apparently also BJJ, obviously the problem isn't that he just needs more BJJ. He just has a glaring hole in his grappling game that so far none of his MMA opponents have been able to capitalize on.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I think you are arguing Appless vs Oranges here. For starters, Askrens MMA game and ability to keep people on the mat has little (or a lot less) to do with his BJJ Brown belt and a lot to do with his style of wrestling. Which is American Folkstyle. He is known for his incredible pinning ability (he holds the single-season NCAA pin record).

Khabib is known for his Freestyle wrestling which has a much less emphasis on pinning and a HUGE emphasis on high altitude throws. You can stall out on the ground in Freestyle rather quickly and earn a stand up.

So really, maybe Khabib needs a little work on his American Folkstyle.


But really, let's not be silly.

im pretty sure if khabib wouldve had folky training his ground control wouldve been much better...

atlthough, askren abilities to pass guard and submit people I will say it has a lot to do with his brown belt wouldnt you?

 

[Title Fight Productions]

atlthough, askren abilities to pass guard and submit people I will say it has a lot to do with his brown belt wouldnt you?

No, not really. Not as much as his American Folkstyle wrestling. Look at the type of subs he is getting. All have a very heavy wrestling theme to them.

Of course his BJJ has helped his MMA game and has made him an all around better grappler, and will continue to do so. I think it's great he chose BJJ to compliment his wrestling.

But when you watch him fight, you see a wrestler with a hint of BJJ.

 

[Uchi Mata]

As a BJJ and Judo guy, Khabib needs a BJJ black belt like a fish needs a bicycle. The only think I think he could stand to work on is positional control for GnP, which is an MMA skill not a BJJ one.

 

[DatSamboKid]

I think you are arguing Appless vs Oranges here. For starters, Askrens MMA game and ability to keep people on the mat has little (or a lot less) to do with his BJJ Brown belt and a lot to do with his style of wrestling. Which is American Folkstyle. He is known for his incredible pinning ability (he holds the single-season NCAA pin record).

Khabib is known for his Freestyle wrestling which has a much less emphasis on pinning and a HUGE emphasis on high altitude throws. You can stall out on the ground in Freestyle rather quickly and earn a stand up.

So really, maybe Khabib needs a little work on his American Folkstyle.


But really, let's not be silly.

You got me wrong then. What I meant with Askren is that, he was already an amazing wrestler, single legging people down is nothing for him, he does it with ease. Now to my knowledge, I'm not sure you practice your submission skills in wrestling. My point is, Askren had so much ease slamming with opponent to the ground, and in MMA you are not looking to pin for points, you are looking to win and finish. And the best way for Askren to start winning is working on his ground game/submission skills, be it is just so easy for him to bring the fight in that domain.

And no, Khabib is known for his Sambo first. He even stated in an interview that when he was a child he tried wrestling and wasn't very good, so he started Judo instead only to go back to wrestling later on. I consider Khabib as a hybrid-Samboist-Judoka-Russian Wrestler.

 

[Human Bass]

He let's his opponents up so he can toss them again. He isn't trying to hold them down, someone of his pedigree could hold people down if he wanted.

Not sure how you can't grasp that after listing all those accomplishments.

You think BJJ is better at pinning than wrestling and Sambo!?!???!

Problem isn't his ability, problem is your viewing his game through BJJ tinted glasses, IMO.

Look how Maia easily mounted and kept the mount against a top Sambo guy. I love Sambo, but their athletes lack the finesse on the ground.

 

[Rod1]

Look how Maia easily mounted and kept the mount against a top Sambo guy. I love Sambo, but their athletes lack the finesse on the ground.

Top sambo guy? really?

He is an MMA guy, who was put on his first fight against Maia, he is a tune up fight.

Still Maia held him for over 10 mins on mount and he didnt tried absolutely anything but to keep position, as i said before its easy to keep position when you are not attacking.

Sayin that Nurmagomedov lacks control because a top 5 fighter could escape to the feet when Nurmagomedov was attacking is just wrong.

Try keeping side control with just one hand and posturing up, try keeping mount without using your hands to post, its not that easy, a top guy, who is also athletic requires 100% commitment to keep down, you cant have 100% commitment to keep someone down if you are also striking.

Show me any fighter that consistently passes, mounts and subs top MMA athletes.

Most are content with just keeping it safe.

 

[Rod1]

F12 amazes me, when the UFC is cutting down on grapplers because lack of excitement, an exciting grappler comes and the only thing F12 says is that he should be like those grapplers who have recently been cut?

Askren is pretty good, but Askren is also not on the UFC because he wrestles his way through victory.