Khabib & GOAT's

[cws80us]

It's fair to discuss Khabib among the greatest LWs of all-time. But in terms of just the overall all-time greats, he's not even in the conversation. His only real claim is the 29-0 record of which more than half was pre-UFC. In terms of longevity, number of title defenses, competing in multiple divisions, and quality of opponents, he's just far too lacking in every category.

 

[StonedLemur]

Rather than racking your brains just use the search function. There are about 30 threads exactly the same. Doesn’t get in your top 5 goat list? Me either, it’s subjective but the fact that he’s respected by fighters tells you something…he is the best LW ever imo.

Boom...nuff said sir lol

 

[markg171]

He was extremely dominant at the top of a very good division. His early retirement is a knock on him, sure. But someone can extrapolate his elite peak as a fighter and say he's one of the best to ever do it. Makes sense to me. Best ever talk is all opinion based. Jones had a longer reign of course, but nobody made Khabib look the way Gus and Reyes did Jones. Fedor, Anderson, stuck around too long. Should their prolonged careers not be put into account the way Khabib's premature one seems to always be?

Just spit ballin here. To me, Khabib showed he deserves to be in that conversation.

Yes, it's totally a knock against Jones that he finally got challenged in his 14th or 22nd UFC fight and 7th or 15th title fight, two things Khabib never did.

We should totally instead give Khabib extra points for simply never getting there in the first place.

 

[Cherry]

Yes, it's totally a knock against Jones that he finally got challenged in his 14th or 22nd UFC fight and 7th or 15th title fight, two things Khabib never did.

We should totally instead give Khabib extra points for simply never getting there in the first place.

Correct, if we're talking about greatest of all time every performance should be put under scrutiny. Also worth noting who challenged him and their respective careers before and after facing Jones. Have the fights Jones struggled to pull out a win, and some would argue did not deserve to get the nod, age well? Are the opponents he faced strong fighters in their own right? Have they had great careers?

Can't give anyone credit for what someone didn't do of course, only what took place.

 

[markg171]

Correct, if we're talking about greatest of all time every performance should be put under scrutiny. Also worth noting who challenged him and their respective careers before and after facing Jones. Have the fights Jones struggled to pull out a win, and some would argue did not deserve to get the nod, age well? Are the opponents he faced strong fighters in their own right? Have they had great careers?

Can't give anyone credit for what someone didn't do of course, only what took place.

Yes, Jon should totally take a knock for having more title fight wins than Khabib even has UFC fights period.

 

[HHJ]

Yes, Jon should totally take a knock

Yes. Whatever it is.

 

[Cherry]

Yes, Jon should totally take a knock for having more title fight wins than Khabib even has UFC fights period.

If your definition of goat is strictly who fought more that's fine. I think it's more nuanced than that. For the record, I'm not claiming Khabib is the best, just that he belongs in the discussion. Personally Jones being a drug cheat is far more damaging to his case than his lackluster title defenses.

 

[markg171]

If your definition of goat is strictly who fought more that's fine. I think it's more nuanced than that. For the record, I'm not claiming Khabib is the best, just that he belongs in the discussion. Personally Jones being a drug cheat is far more damaging to his case than his lackluster title defenses.

Okay but Jon was just as, if not even more so, dominating than Khabib was in his earlier days which is ALSO more than Khabib ever achieved as well. He has dominance, quality, and quantity going for him even just there before Gus ever even happens.

So being penalized for stuff even further down his record, which is just cherries on top of an already better record, is fucking moronic.

 

[Cherry]

Okay but Jon was just as, if not even more so, dominating than Khabib was in his earlier days which is ALSO more than Khabib ever achieved as well. He has dominance, quality, and quantity going for him even just there before Gus ever even happens.

So being penalized for stuff even further down his record, which is just cherries on top of an already better record, is fucking moronic.

Like I said in my first post my personal definition of greatest encompasses an entire career. However long or short. What they achieved in their time, how dominant they were in doing so. Maybe I'm in the minority on this but what a lot of people describe as goat sounds to me like who had the best prime. At their peak who was the best. I look at that as a different discussion. For me, Aldo was the best fighter I've ever seen when he was at his best. But from what I've read of others he's usually on the outside looking in when it comes to best ever.

Khabib has a fraction of Jones' title defenses but he looked as dominant in them as anyone. He wasn't at the top for long but he breezed through everything. I think you can look at what he did and think yeah, he competed in mma as well as anyone else.

Yep Jones has more quality fights, that's fair. I don't argue he isn't in the discussion. But again the whole ped thing kind of tarnishes and puts into question everything for him, personally.

 

[legcramp]

Do I have Khabib was top-5 goat list? No.

Do I think he makes that list if he fought a few more years? Yes.


Some people put him on their goat list probably because they answered yes to my second question and that's fair. He'd definitely smash the crap outta Islam and Leon/Belal no doubt in my mind but I don't have him in my top-5 GOAT list because he retired too early. I think a prime Usman smashes him though.

 

[nonoob]

Like how Ronda got girls to watch. Khabib got Muslim casual viewers to tune in.

Rhonda made Way more of a statement than Kabib did. Her reign rocked, her downfall was brutal, but her WMMA title defenses are still unmatched.

Kabib was dominant AF & made the wise decision to retire with no losses, full respect for a great fighter.

Islam is still the champ and also has 3 title defenses is he higher on the list than Khabib now?

NO champ would be proud of, OR respected for, the way Mak has defended his belt.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

I don’t want to shit on the man. But if Islam wins his next defence at LW. Khabib is FOREVER removed from any GOAT discussion at all. Because Islam will be LW GOAT:

And you rode the short bus to school if you think Khabib is ANYWHERE in the one true GOAT conversation.

You literally tell anybody that knows ANYTHING about mma that you know zero. And you’ve been watching for 5 years maximum, imo.

 

[Natural Order]

13 fights in the bigs. More tomato cans than legit opponents. Won the belt by beating the #11 ranked guy in the division.

Solid fighter but nowhere near anything called the top of MMA.

 

[Luthien]

I don’t want to hoot on the man.

Excited for 305?!

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Excited for 305?!

I’m getting there.

I’m feeling like Happy Harry Hard-On (From the 1990 movie. Pump Up The Volume. Starring Christian Slater). “I’m feeling a little bit rude, tonight”.

Thinking about shitting on Izzy for my pre-fight post. I’m trying to restrain myself.

But yeah..

The ME has bigger stakes than usual.. Even for a title fight.

 

[nonoob]

I’m feeling like Happy Harry Hard-On

Triple H ?​

 

[IloveTHIS]

Never bled

Never rocked

Never dropped

Never out wrestled

So good he was able to choose to submit Justin because he didn't want to hurt him bad in front of Justin's family. Who else is so good they can choose to fight a non violent way against someone as good as Justin?

Khabib doesn't have the title defenses of someone like Jones or GSP. It's true. But if Khabib fought let's say 10 more times against number one contenders. Do you really think he would lose? He's easily the best LW of all time and LW is historically the best division. Would beat any LW in history on their best day.

He gets destroyed by many of the best WWs tho. He's the GOAT lw but not the p4p GOAT

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Because he's really good. Hope that helped

 

[Dionysian]

Because fighters know what talent looks like better than rock-IQ internet fans who judge fighting solely off UFC marketing and muscles and youtube one-liners.

And when you aren't a moron/have trained before, you clearly knew Khabib was a special talent watching him.

 

[OmegaRugal]

4) BJ Penn winning the WW title isn't as impressive as if Khabib would have done it. Look at th size of WWs today vs back then.

But it is more impressive than not doing it at all like Khabib.