Kevin Holland Got a Performance Bonus

[MeatGrinder]

He's entertaining and fights more than twice a year like the rest of the roster.

 

[UFCIsNOTRigged]

I hate seeing stuff like that...especially when you consider that 50k would mean a lot more to the guy on a shit contract.

Holland's show/win is probably 10x what Duncan's is yet Holland gets a performance bonus despite not actually finishing his opponent.

Just goes to show if you buy Dana White something for his sneaker collection you will get rewarded on the backend at the expense of those who are more deserving.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Holland ran a clinic on how to fight from the bottom against a long time Renzo Gracie black belt. I thought it was an amazing performance very worthy of teh bonus.

I get so tired of seeing people just accept being on teh bottom & just lay there & try to ride teh clock or whatever teh fook they're doing. An active guard is a very exciting & informative thing to behold.

I disagree wit teh judges that Holland lost one round. He was much more effective from the bottom than Gunny was from the top... & Holland rocked Gunny at teh end of teh 3rd. You're only supposed to get judging credit for teh TD, then you gotta actually do something to score. Holland quickly caught up & surpassed him in every round.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Holland ran a clinic on how to fight from the bottom against a long time Renzo Gracie black belt. I thought it was an amazing performance very worthy of teh bonus.

I get so tired of seeing people just accept being on teh bottom & just lay there & try to ride teh clock or whatever teh fook they're doing. An active guard is a very exciting & informative thing to behold.

I disagree wit teh judges that Holland lost one round. He was much more effective from the bottom than Gunny was from the top. You're only supposed to get judging credit for teh TD, then you gotta actually do something to score. Holland quickly caught up & surpassed him in every round.

Wasn’t he mounted and in an arm triangle for half of the 3rd round?

He didn’t do that much on the feet in that round, seemed like a clear 29-28.

They’ve literally never given a guy a POTN bonus for winning a decision when someone else had a finish, and in this case Duncan dropped his opponent and then subbed him the next round as a big underdog.

I definitely think asking for the bonus is the kiss of death though.

 

[rjmbrd]

He’s also on record said that fighters who complain about fighter pay are bums that don’t fight enough.

Unfortunately "kiss the ring or else" is standard operating procedure for the UFC.

They are paying out <15% of revenue to fighters and Holland is trading brain damage for peanuts.

 

[Mongoosemk12]

They didn't give one to Chris Duncan who destroyed an opponent who was a massive favorite against him.

I'm sure that's Kevin Holland's fault The guy shows up to fight anyone, anywhere, usually short notice across two different weight classes, and you are somehow upset he's making 250k/250k? Honestly I'm surprised he isn't making more.

 

[Kwic]

Yup, horrible decision to give it to him and I like Kevin.

 

[maximus__]

I can answer that.

He says "yes" whenever the phone rings, even week of the fight, regardless of how bad it is for his overall career... he now openly admits he's not interested in a belt or being the best, he just wants to get paid.

Consider he fights for cheap, this is a really good fit for UFC brass.

I listened to his podcast on Rogan back when he was on his big run. All he talked about was buying shoes and cars.

That's when I knew he was going to be average. Some recent podcasts have basically made it sound like he runs his own camps.

He had a short period where he tried when he got out wrestled for a bit to improve that wrestling and then he quit.

He will just trade wins and losses for the rest of his career until he starts losing 3 in a row and gets cut.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Wasn’t he mounted and in an arm triangle for half of the 3rd round?

He didn’t do that much on the feet in that round, seemed like a clear 29-28.

They’ve literally never given a guy a POTN bonus for winning a decision when someone else had a finish, and in this case Duncan dropped his opponent and then subbed him the next round as a big underdog.

I definitely think asking for the bonus is the kiss of death though.

Just so you know, I'm a huge fan of both, & actually bet V-cash on Gunny to win.

After re-watching: I see its about 25 second mount & then 1 minute in teh arm triangle hold. There's another minute right after Gun lost his mount... where they exchanged while Holl was on his back & Gun standing in his guard, but that exchange just barely goes to Gun.

Its interesting how you question the round, but don't be hypnotized by who's on top. That's not a judging criteria. Only the TD & to a lesser extent, "the mount" are to be scored. The striking & sub attempt offer scoring, not position itself.

I wrote the post you quoted based after my first time watch... so I'll watch that 3rd round again for clarity on this.

Before I do though, I want to clarify that "Getting a TD" is the highest scoring action in the "advancement of position" catagory. "Advancing position" from say guard to half guard, side control, or mount, are all a "smaller scores" but still offer a weighted scoring credit. iow.... Gun's mount lost a lot of "weight" when he didn't do anything with it. "Holding" that position scores zero. the submission attempt is a criteria in itself, & so that certainly is a highlight for Gun. So anywayz... now I'll watch it again a little closer than my first watch with scoring in mind.

My timelines are time "left on the clock," & are rounded off, but close.

5:00 - 4:30 - They danced for 30 seconds.

4:30 - 3:50 - The next 30 was both clinching each others heads while exchanging uppercuts... but Holland was getting the best of these exchanges by arguably half dozen more powerful strikes between knees, uppercuts & hooks over the top. Holl was significantly ahead prior to the TD.

3:45 - Gunny got teh TD & craftily used teh momentum to land right in mount, but did zero with it. At this point... that TD, advancing of position to mount, & then holding Holl, still has Holl ahead after the earlier striking.

3:20 - Kevin rolled out of mount just as Gunny landed a light fore-arm side strike. (so part of your question... Gun was mounted for about 25 seconds)

3:20 - 2:20 Gunny standing in Holland's guard... gets zero credit for position since Gun actually lost position. Gun throws a couple of hard shots that were blocked... which Holland answers with 5 decent heal strikes to Gunny'z head. Gun then edges slightly ahead in that particular striking exchange by scoring with 2 stronger head strikes. (a prior Gun shot was blocked) Though Holl was on the bottom, this was more of a position situation which scores zero. Gun arguably edged the exchange with those 2 shots besting the half dozen heal strikes. Per my original point that you quoted me on... it was Holl's crafty ground game that evened the exchange out.

At the half/way point, I'm saying that the early striking of Holl still keeps him ahead after Gun only scored with a TD, then mount & only a couple of strikes.

2:20 - 1:25 - Holland rolled out of the previous position, but got stuck in a half guard arm triangle attempt. he rolled out of it after a minute but that was the most significant scoring criteria of the fight so far... Those earlier strikes were significant & should be scored heavily, but that triangle looked dangerous & so Gun gets significant credit for that putting him on top of scoring at this point. Gunny needed to get to side control for that choke to be considered "fully applied", but it ain't nothin, & people have been choked out with an arm triangle from half guard. Still, it wasn't lethally dangerous so I'm not going to give him anywhere near the credit of him being staggered later.

1:25 - While Gun's trying to free the leg stuck in half guard, Holl rolls it & stands up. Holl lands 6 pitty pat knees to gun's one standing against the fence.
1:00 - they separate & Holl lands a pair of big knees & a big left, then a big front kick to the ribs. Then Holl landz a HUGE thai clinch knee at 0:50 to the head that visually staggered Gun & seemed to rock him. Gun burned the rest of the round holding Holl against the fence... showing clearly that he was spent & more likely was just stalling to survive that knee.

So putting this all together, Gun's main claim to this round is the triangle... which wasn't actually proper without the side mount position (which is why he lost position trying to get the leg out) vs. Holland outstriking him by a lot in the end & rocking him... & I'll call it for Holl between the 2 since teh triangle wasn't as dangerous as teh wobbling & getting outstruck. Outside of that, we're comparing Gunny getting a TD & then a credit for position with the mount after losing striking exchanges just prior. After that, Gun began losing position, first to half guard, then to full guard.

So that round still looks clearly like Holland won it, & so takes all 3 rounds imo.

Per my comment about Holl running a master class from the bottom... obviously the other rounds showed that more with Holl striking Gun more from the bottom & actively threatening with position etc. That said, in teh 3rd... it was pretty crafty how Holl slinked out of mount through 2 transitions & used Gun's triangle against him by rolling him when he tried to free the leg. That's high level stuff against a long time & very respected black belt.

My Original Point: Hollands guard is very active & Beats teh fook out of a "dead fish" guard like far to many UFC fighters have.

 

[chrisdiaz]

Kevin Holland got a performance bonus for being held down by a 36 year old wrestler?

Holland is clearly washed at this point, yet the UFC continues to book him every few months, despite him being the most overpaid fighter in the entire sport (reportedly on $250k/$250k show/win).

250k/250k for a fighter who cannot defend takedowns, defend submissions, or knock their opponents out (he has 1 knockout win in his last ten fights).

Does Kevin have a Loretta Hunt tape on Dana why does the UFC keep trotting this guy out there like he is some young exciting talent?

You are probably the only loser here that doesnt like Kevin Holland. He has effectively taken Donald Cerrones place and should be loved just like cowboy was.

 

[CasualBot]

You are probably the only loser here that doesnt like Kevin Holland. He has effectively taken Donald Cerrones place and should be loved just like cowboy was.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

Kevin Holland got a performance bonus for being held down by a 36 year old wrestler?

Holland is clearly washed at this point, yet the UFC continues to book him every few months, despite him being the most overpaid fighter in the entire sport (reportedly on $250k/$250k show/win).

250k/250k for a fighter who cannot defend takedowns, defend submissions, or knock their opponents out (he has 1 knockout win in his last ten fights).

Does Kevin have a Loretta Hunt tape on Dana why does the UFC keep trotting this guy out there like he is some young exciting talent?

I thought he looked very good, actually; not washed at all. Gunnar Nelson is one of the premier grapplers at 170 (albeit no longer in his prime and getting up there in age). Holland's takedown defense still looks pretty bad, but his defensive grappling was good. The fight overall was very fun, but despite what I've said, I don't think it was worthy of a bonus. I would've given it to Duncan over Holland.

 

[SuperAlly]

Wild that Duncan didn't get one. He put on a clinic.

If Bannon and Thainara got bonuses for finishing a couple of cans, then Duncan definitely should have gotten one for Vucenic.

Bannon got a bonus? wtf. That’s the real question. Her fight was straight ass

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

Just so you know, I'm a huge fan of both, & actually bet V-cash on Gunny to win.

After re-watching: I see its about 25 second mount & then 1 minute in teh arm triangle hold. There's another minute right after Gun lost his mount... where they exchanged while Holl was on his back & Gun standing in his guard, but that exchange just barely goes to Gun.

Its interesting how you question the round, but don't be hypnotized by who's on top. That's not a judging criteria. Only the TD & to a lesser extent, "the mount" are to be scored. The striking & sub attempt offer scoring, not position itself.

I wrote the post you quoted based after my first time watch... so I'll watch that 3rd round again for clarity on this.

Before I do though, I want to clarify that "Getting a TD" is the highest scoring action in the "advancement of position" catagory. "Advancing position" from say guard to half guard, side control, or mount, are all a "smaller scores" but still offer a weighted scoring credit. iow.... Gun's mount lost a lot of "weight" when he didn't do anything with it. "Holding" that position scores zero. the submission attempt is a criteria in itself, & so that certainly is a highlight for Gun. So anywayz... now I'll watch it again a little closer than my first watch with scoring in mind.

My timelines are time "left on the clock," & are rounded off, but close.

5:00 - 4:30 - They danced for 30 seconds.

4:30 - 3:50 - The next 30 was both clinching each others heads while exchanging uppercuts... but Holland was getting the best of these exchanges by arguably half dozen more powerful strikes between knees, uppercuts & hooks over the top. Holl was significantly ahead prior to the TD.

3:45 - Gunny got teh TD & craftily used teh momentum to land right in mount, but did zero with it. At this point... that TD, advancing of position to mount, & then holding Holl, still has Holl ahead after the earlier striking.

3:20 - Kevin rolled out of mount just as Gunny landed a light fore-arm side strike. (so part of your question... Gun was mounted for about 25 seconds)

3:20 - 2:20 Gunny standing in Holland's guard... gets zero credit for position since Gun actually lost position. Gun throws a couple of hard shots that were blocked... which Holland answers with 5 decent heal strikes to Gunny'z head. Gun then edges slightly ahead in that particular striking exchange by scoring with 2 stronger head strikes. (a prior Gun shot was blocked) Though Holl was on the bottom, this was more of a position situation which scores zero. Gun arguably edged the exchange with those 2 shots besting the half dozen heal strikes. Per my original point that you quoted me on... it was Holl's crafty ground game that evened the exchange out.

At the half/way point, I'm saying that the early striking of Holl still keeps him ahead after Gun only scored with a TD, then mount & only a couple of strikes.

2:20 - 1:25 - Holland rolled out of the previous position, but got stuck in a half guard arm triangle attempt. he rolled out of it after a minute but that was the most significant scoring criteria of the fight so far... Those earlier strikes were significant & should be scored heavily, but that triangle looked dangerous & so Gun gets significant credit for that putting him on top of scoring at this point. Gunny needed to get to side control for that choke to be considered "fully applied", but it ain't nothin, & people have been choked out with an arm triangle from half guard. Still, it wasn't lethally dangerous so I'm not going to give him anywhere near the credit of him being staggered later.

1:25 - While Gun's trying to free the leg stuck in half guard, Holl rolls it & stands up. Holl lands 6 pitty pat knees to gun's one standing against the fence.
1:00 - they separate & Holl lands a pair of big knees & a big left, then a big front kick to the ribs. Then Holl landz a HUGE thai clinch knee at 0:50 to the head that visually staggered Gun & seemed to rock him. Gun burned the rest of the round holding Holl against the fence... showing clearly that he was spent & more likely was just stalling to survive that knee.

So putting this all together, Gun's main claim to this round is the triangle... which wasn't actually proper without the side mount position (which is why he lost position trying to get the leg out) vs. Holland outstriking him by a lot in the end & rocking him... & I'll call it for Holl between the 2 since teh triangle wasn't as dangerous as teh wobbling & getting outstruck. Outside of that, we're comparing Gunny getting a TD & then a credit for position with the mount after losing striking exchanges just prior. After that, Gun began losing position, first to half guard, then to full guard.

So that round still looks clearly like Holland won it, & so takes all 3 rounds imo.

Per my comment about Holl running a master class from the bottom... obviously the other rounds showed that more with Holl striking Gun more from the bottom & actively threatening with position etc. That said, in teh 3rd... it was pretty crafty how Holl slinked out of mount through 2 transitions & used Gun's triangle against him by rolling him when he tried to free the leg. That's high level stuff against a long time & very respected black belt.

My Original Point: Hollands guard is very active & Beats teh fook out of a "dead fish" guard like far to many UFC fighters have.

Appreciate your in-depth analysis and review.

I don't think you are wrong to give the round to Holland, just that I can see the argument for taking someone down, mounting them, putting them in a deep submission, and controlling them for over half the round (UFC stats gave Nelson 3+ minutes of control, so 60% of the round) to get the nod if the striking wasn't that wide in terms of effectiveness/damage. They had Holland outstriking him 19-7 and he did land some good shots but I don't remember anything like the end of the first round, so the argument of damage trumping everything else seems fairly valid to give him the round. But I just didn't remember it being that dominant standing (need to re-watch), so it felt like the control nullifying Holland for most of the round was fairly significant.

Anyways all 3 judges gave the round to Nelson and fans were 50/50 on it when voting on MMA Decisions, so I don't think it's "clear" at all in retrospect. Either way the right guy won, I thought Holland would get stream-rolled once he got taken down but he really showed that he's been working on his grappling off his back and Nelson has definitely lost a step (and getting his whole shit rocked at the end of the first changed the fight tremendously....if that doesn't happen I bet Nelson wins the first and the fight on the scorecards).

I just don't see how winning a relatively close fight (since he almost lost the first round before the last 30 seconds) warrants a POTN bonus when another fighter that was an underdog dropped and mauled his opponent one round then subbed them the next. How they rate what Holland did (win 29-28 when he almost lost 29-28 against a guy that is 36 and hasn't fought in 2 years cause of injuries) more impressive a performance than Duncan's finish seems like the most obscene bias possible when they've literally never done that before.

I mean Duncan at least deserved it over the girl who finished Molly for fucks sake.

 

[MRT]

Holland ran a clinic on how to fight from the bottom against a long time Renzo Gracie black belt. I thought it was an amazing performance very worthy of teh bonus.

I get so tired of seeing people just accept being on teh bottom & just lay there & try to ride teh clock or whatever teh fook they're doing. An active guard is a very exciting & informative thing to behold.

I disagree wit teh judges that Holland lost one round. He was much more effective from the bottom than Gunny was from the top... & Holland rocked Gunny at teh end of teh 3rd. You're only supposed to get judging credit for teh TD, then you gotta actually do something to score. Holland quickly caught up & surpassed him in every round.

I would still rather see a guy on a shit contract who was a +300 underdog and scores a finish get the bonus, but I definitely agree that effective work from bottom should be rewarded more than it is. Despite the changes a while back to the rules that clarify "effective grappling" requires more than just having top position (i.e., there must be sub attempts or damage), we still don't see effective work from bottom getting its due. It is indeed interesting to note that it isn't always the best BJJ guys who are most effective from bottom too...

 

[xhaydenx]

Bannon got a bonus? wtf. That’s the real question. Her fight was straight ass

I didn't mind that fight. Liked her little faking side kicks lol.

She probably just got a bonus because on a card full of mostly stinkers, at least her and Pujar were throwing. And the finishing sequence of her getting head kicked and then subbing was one of the more exciting moments of the card.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

I like Holland on the roster he goes hard even if he's only a top 20ish ww or mw.
He stole Duncan s bonus tho probably with Dana white privilege

 

[UFCIsNOTRigged]

I'm sure that's Kevin Holland's fault The guy shows up to fight anyone, anywhere, usually short notice across two different weight classes, and you are somehow upset he's making 250k/250k? Honestly I'm surprised he isn't making more.

Kevin's skills are nothing special there are guys coming off DWCS making 10k/10k that can strike nearly as good AND actually defend takedowns.

I am surprised you think 250k/250k for a striker that cant defend takedowns or knock anyone out is a bargain because there are tons of fighters meeting that description fighting for $500 in LFA.

 

[Whitestallion]

The card was really shit for the most part, very few highlights. I also don't get the UFC's obsession with Holland.

Fake fan 100%

Holland always gets a good crowd reaction because people want to cheer for people they "know"...

Holland fights a lot, is never an easy out and will always try to finish.

 

[Haj01]

Kevin Netherland