Kevin Holland Got a Performance Bonus

[Myrddin Wild]

Theme: Never use "official statistics" as a talking point when discussing the scoring of a round.

EVER!!!

I don't think you are wrong to give the round to Holland

Noted & appreciated: but your retort to think otherwise is based on statistics, while you're replying to someone who broke this down moment to moment using pause & rewind.

taking someone down, mounting them, putting them in a deep submission, and controlling them for over half the round

"Control" is not a judging criteria. Further, I'd argue, that Gunny wasn't "controlling" Holland while he was standing in his guard for that minute. Gunny was on top, but arguably barely won that minute of exchanges with those 2 shots at the very end of that minute.

Gunny actually "lost" position standing in Holland's guard.

To your point... "holding Holland in a submission attempt" (even one that lacked complete execution) is "kind of" valid for that 1 minute... but to say that he did anything outside of that 1 minute is not a judging criteria. iow... "him being on top" for half the round... has ZERO to do with how the fight is scored. Top or bottom position is not a judging criteria.

They had Holland outstriking him 19-7 and he did land some good shots but I don't remember anything like the end of the first round, so the argument of damage trumping everything else seems fairly valid to give him the round.

You should've reviewed that Holland Knee that staggered Gunny just before Gunny "stalled for his life" for the last 30 seconds.

You should've watched the prior striking exchange with what I said in mind, because that was the most significant striking of the round.

Statistics don't show "impact" & so are basically useless since a pitty pat scores the same as a concussive strike to those numberz. 6 of those 19 strikes for Holland are probably teh pitty pat knees against teh fence, while one single strike of those 19 staggered gunny just before teh final 30 seconds. Context matterz.

"They" had Holland outstriking him by" (whatever) - Keep in mind that "they" is a guy sitting octogon-side with a clicker. I've broken down countless fights in even more detail than I gave here... & the numbers from "they" are NEVER correct, & are rarely even close. It's actually a joke to use the "official strike count" to use as "evidence" of how a fight is scored.

At some point teh UFC will likely get an AI analysis of "strike count" that comes from 10 different angles & estimates "impact" in its analysis. Until that time, we only have a guy cage side who has arguably a less strategic view than my view with a camera that shows it clearer than that guy is seeing it. (arguably, I understand... but with pause & rewind, his analysis is not even close)

I'm not tooting my own horn too much... but when I watch a fight & break it down like I just did on this one... the recipient (you) bringing oop teh "official control/strike count" in the discussion is already a strike (pun intended) against your words. It is a strike against your words any-time... but especially after I've displayed through an hour of review & play-by-play strike count how I saw it after pausing & rewind etc... I think we can all agree that the guy sitting cage side live with a clicker should no longer enter the discussion.

Your User Name is "MMA Analyst" so I spent a little extra time making this distinction for you because it would be hard for me to under-estimate how subquality that guy sitting cage side with a clicker's count is against someone who did a deep dive using pause & rewind.

"Me" aside... "Anyone" breaking it down with pause & rewind... should be more accurate than the guy sitting cage side live who's just sitting there with clickerz.

Okay, that said... where are we at in this discussion?

But I just didn't remember it being that dominant standing (need to re-watch), so it felt like the control nullifying Holland for most of the round was fairly significant.

Yes, you should've re-watched before replying to me (or anyone) who did a deep dive using pause & rewind. Also, CONTROL IS NOT A JUDGING CRITERIA.

NULLIFYING your opponent is "exactly" the reason that they upgraded teh roolz in 01/01/2017 to NOT give credit to "control." This was VERY SPECIFICALLY the main thing they were trying to avoid in the new judging criteria. YOU DON'T GET CREDIT FOR CONTROL.

Anyways all 3 judges gave the round to Nelson and fans were 50/50 on it when voting on MMA Decisions, so I don't think it's "clear" at all in retrospect.

This is a whole topic in itself.

MMA judges are all over the place, & they aren't even as unified as everyone thinks they are. It took them FOREVER to let go of the CONTROL aspect of scoring, & it was only within teh last couple years we started seeing these old timers finally accept the "new" criteria (that was instigated in 20 fooking 17 ffs)

CONTROL = ZERO

Those judges likely didn't have teh angle of Gunny staggering from dat shot 30 secondz from teh end. If they did, then they should've known that trumped "control" & it certainly trumped an incomplete arm-triangle while trapped in half-guard.

That choke looked way worse than it was. Gunny knew he didn't have it from half guard. That's why he lost position trying to free teh trapped leg. Watch it again. Gunny had to bring teh other leg oop to try & pry the other one out. That's what Holland craftily used as leverage to spin out. High level stuff there.

I just don't see how winning a relatively close fight (since he almost lost the first round before the last 30 seconds) warrants a POTN bonus when another fighter that was an underdog dropped and mauled his opponent one round then subbed them the next. How they rate what Holland did (win 29-28 when he almost lost 29-28 against a guy that is 36 and hasn't fought in 2 years cause of injuries) more impressive a performance than Duncan's finish seems like the most obscene bias possible when they've literally never done that before.

I mean Duncan at least deserved it over the girl who finished Molly for fucks sake.

I'll agree you have more of a point here.

I'm pretty high on teh predominant striker in Holland, executing a stellar ground game against one of teh most high ranking BJJ guys from teh bottom & actually winning most of teh exchanges. He not only endured it, but excelled, & then escaped to create his victory.

I see your pov too... I guess I just value the skill it took for Holland to pull off what he did. I waz absolutely amazed by what I saw from him. It may not look pretty to an excitable audience, but teh nuancez of what he did are absolutely worthy of accolades imo....

To your point, hopefully Dana gave dat kid you spoke of a backstage bonus. Those are real btw.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Kevin Netherland

Otherwize none az: Teh fookin' Winneh~

 

[Trabaho]

It's not about your ranking he had some viral moments of being funny and other semi viral things. Like talking during fights, tricking jacare, joking bout what opponents smellt like. He is a yes man. Dana asks him to fight, Kevin says yes Sir, raw sir. He was Khamzats opponent, sounds stupid but doing a bout with superstars helps. He fights extremely frequently which helps his brand.

Derick Lewis literaly became rich for saying his balls were hot.

 

[Plissken]

He's dependable, takes short notice fights at two weights, and is usually exciting. Those types of fighters get more leeway.

 

[CroCopsLHK]

Kevin Holland fought brilliantly

Can't give too much of a shit about the Jaxxon podcast. I'll let bygones be bygones

This was one of my favorite fights last week. Kevin took it too him and was competitive everywhere. Truly one of his better performances

But Kevin fights all the time, gets a lot of bonuses and probably has a stellar contract. Chris Duncan had a performance that was objectively better imo

 

[jsbx45]

I like Holland. he's entertaining and has had several POTN and FOTN performances. He's active and usually a gamer. Would love to see him fight Izzy.

 

[SuperAlly]

I didn't mind that fight. Liked her little faking side kicks lol.

She probably just got a bonus because on a card full of mostly stinkers, at least her and Pujar were throwing. And the finishing sequence of her getting head kicked and then subbing was one of the more exciting moments of the card.

On a card full of stinkers it was easily the worst

Terrible standard of fighting

 

[xhaydenx]

On a card full of stinkers it was easily the worst

Terrible standard of fighting

I thought the girls put on a way better show than Herbert/Padilla, Ulberg/Jan, and CLD/Pulyaev.

They did more fighting in one round than those three fights did combined for all 3 rounds.

 

[SuperAlly]

I thought the girls put on a way better show than Herbert/Padilla, Ulberg/Jan, and CLD/Pulyaev.

They did more fighting in one round than those three fights did combined for all 3 rounds.

Ridiculous take

The standard of "fighting" in that fight was trash

One girl hopping around the ring genitals first before the one little spell of action in the fight

It was an objectively terrible fight. We should be honest

 

[xhaydenx]

Ridiculous take

The standard of "fighting" in that fight was trash

One girl hopping around the ring genitals first before the one little spell of action in the fight

It was an objectively terrible fight. We should be honest

It's a ridiculous take if you don't understand that FOTN and other bonuses have nothing to do with standards of skill and is awarded purely based on spectacle.

I'm not saying Banon/Tomar was some high level, amazing fight, but in no way was a fight where CLD was too timid to engage against a guy who was literally terrified and ran to the point that the commentators were discussing whether the fight should be stopped going to be more deserving than Bannon vs Tomar of a bonus.

 

[Megatronlee]

Kevin Holland got a performance bonus for being held down by a 36 year old wrestler?

Holland is clearly washed at this point, yet the UFC continues to book him every few months, despite him being the most overpaid fighter in the entire sport (reportedly on $250k/$250k show/win).

250k/250k for a fighter who cannot defend takedowns, defend submissions, or knock their opponents out (he has 1 knockout win in his last ten fights).

Does Kevin have a Loretta Hunt tape on Dana why does the UFC keep trotting this guy out there like he is some young exciting talent?

Why do you mention numbers? Mention the fight. Were you entertained? I was. Grow up baseball man

 

[SuperAlly]

It's a ridiculous take if you don't understand that FOTN and other bonuses have nothing to do with standards of skill and is awarded purely based on spectacle.

I'm not saying Banon/Tomar was some high level, amazing fight, but in no way was a fight where CLD was too timid to engage against a guy who was literally terrified and ran to the point that the commentators were discussing whether the fight should be stopped going to be more deserving than Bannon vs Tomar of a bonus.

There was no spectacle in that turd of a fight

 

[SuperAlly]

It's a ridiculous take if you don't understand that FOTN and other bonuses have nothing to do with standards of skill and is awarded purely based on spectacle.

I'm not saying Banon/Tomar was some high level, amazing fight, but in no way was a fight where CLD was too timid to engage against a guy who was literally terrified and ran to the point that the commentators were discussing whether the fight should be stopped going to be more deserving than Bannon vs Tomar of a bonus.

Go in the play by play chat

That fight was getting lampooned by all for being a steaming turd

It was shite

Really, really shite

By far the worst of the night

 

[vinnie245]

They clearly didnt give Duncan a bonus because he basically begged for it, all fighters should take this as a hint to not beg for bonuses as UFC doesnt like it.

 

[El Panteron]

He's a highly entertaining fighter whose victories are almost entirely via submission or knockout, and he consistently fights three or more times per year, but let's queue the parade of sherdog losers reminding us that he "sucks" because he isn't a top 5 fighter.

Wrong.
Top 5 fighters suck as well.
Champions too, most of them.

 

[FilipEmoFights]

45-70k

 

[UFCIsNOTRigged]

Were you entertained? I was. Grow up baseball man

No definitely not.

Theres absolutely nothing entertaining to me about watching a fighter get held down.

The UFC cut a fighter in December, who was 3-1 in the promotion, for spending nearly an entire fight getting held down.

I'm not sure why Kevin Holland, not only gets a pass. but receives a performance bonus for it.

 

[xhaydenx]

Go in the play by play chat

That fight was getting lampooned by all for being a steaming turd

It was shite

Really, really shite

By far the worst of the night

Yeh, I was in the PBP.

And like I've said but you seem to keep ignoring: it's not about whether it was shit or not. Bannon is shit, and Tomar has been on my list of fighters to bet against from the start because she's so shit.

I wouldn't have given it to Bannon, but she didn't get a bonus because she put on an amazing performance in a highly skilled fight lol.

There was no spectacle in that turd of a fight

You might not think so, but the UFC and the crowd are always going to think someone get dropped with a headkick and then getting the sub is a spectacle.

More happened in that 20 second finish window than all of CLD/Pulyaev. I don't know how you can argue against that considering Pulyaev literally chose to run and not engage for the entire fight.

Who you think they're going to give the bonus to in that situation? The guy who didn't want to fight? Like, come on bro.

You're free to cheer for fighters not fighting all you want, but I'm over watching these do nothing bitches run laps in fear for 3 rounds.

 

[xhaydenx]

No definitely not.

Theres absolutely nothing entertaining to me about watching a fighter get held down.

The UFC cut a fighter in December, who was 3-1 in the promotion, for spending nearly an entire fight getting held down.

I'm not sure why Kevin Holland, not only gets a pass. but receives a performance bonus for it.

He gets a pass because he's a character, and can be counted on to at least try and go for an exciting striking finish provided he's got someone willing to trade with him and who isn't too far beyond is skill level like MVP was.

That's literally all it is.

If he wasn't an entertaining character for the fans he'd probably have been cut already. He certainly wouldn't have been kept getting decently profiled fights.

 

[Megatronlee]

No definitely not.

Theres absolutely nothing entertaining to me about watching a fighter get held down.

The UFC cut a fighter in December, who was 3-1 in the promotion, for spending nearly an entire fight getting held down.

I'm not sure why Kevin Holland, not only gets a pass. but receives a performance bonus for it.

Nah I loved it . You’d like it if Conor did it tho