Kettlebell workout progress

[maximus__]

Although I'm quite experienced with kettlebells at this point I still check out kettlebell tutorials for helpful advice and double-checking issues with form to avoid injury.

But this guy said something in his single-hand kettlebell tutorial video that is just stupid.



Never have I heard anyone else say to have your thumb pointed down in a swing. Ever.
One of the issues I've noticed with 'workout gurus' is they come up with something insane they feel is an improvement, and they don't cite the source for why they are doing it correctly and everyone else is doing it wrong.

Even if this is only supposed to be a technique for beginners, its a no where near as important as the specific grip you should use with the fingers rather than the palm for single-handed swings to avoid tearing and blistering. Feeling pain after an exercise for days is the #1 way to convince anyone to NOT do that exercise again. I'm speaking from experience on that subject.

By the way, the #1 best source of info on kettlebells on YouTube is LebeStark. Not saying absolutely everything he says is correct, but I haven't heard a single bit of 'everyone else is wrong and I am right' elitist-guru bullshit.

That's a Girevoy Sport (GS) swing position, though he is combining it with a more traditional hard style swing.



The video I attached covers it.

I rotate my thumb down at the bottom of my single arm swings, but rotate it back as it comes up to top of the swing as per the hard style.

Looks like he is just teaching the single arm swings as part of a progression in that video. Keeping your thumb down would burn you out quicker, but transitions into the snatch movement.

Pavel bastardised GS , Americanized it and made a killing off it. The swing is just a part of the snatch in GS. Pavel turned it into a main movment.

 

[deadshot138]

Although I'm quite experienced with kettlebells at this point I still check out kettlebell tutorials for helpful advice and double-checking issues with form to avoid injury.

But this guy said something in his single-hand kettlebell tutorial video that is just stupid.



Never have I heard anyone else say to have your thumb pointed down in a swing. Ever.
One of the issues I've noticed with 'workout gurus' is they come up with something insane they feel is an improvement, and they don't cite the source for why they are doing it correctly and everyone else is doing it wrong.

Even if this is only supposed to be a technique for beginners, its a no where near as important as the specific grip you should use with the fingers rather than the palm for single-handed swings to avoid tearing and blistering. Feeling pain after an exercise for days is the #1 way to convince anyone to NOT do that exercise again. I'm speaking from experience on that subject.

By the way, the #1 best source of info on kettlebells on YouTube is LebeStark. Not saying absolutely everything he says is correct, but I haven't heard a single bit of 'everyone else is wrong and I am right' elitist-guru bullshit.

I mean, thumb pointed down is just for the hiking part so you don't hyperextend your elbow between your legs. The expectation is that it rotates to thumb up for the hand change at the top. Easily the best hand to hand swings have ever felt doing it this way, for me personally.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I mean, thumb pointed down is just for the hiking part so you don't hyperextend your elbow between your legs. The expectation is that it rotates to thumb up for the hand change at the top. Easily the best hand to hand swings have ever felt doing it this way, for me personally.

I've never heard of anyone doing that.
Ideally because no one starts off with swings with a weight that is a possibility of happening unless there's a preexisting injury.

Everybody starts off at a lower weight and gradually increases over the course of their conditioning iimproving.

Typically with single-handed swings is to keep the handle vertical at the top of the swing if only to make it far easier to switch hands while doing alternates. It's fine to have the handle rotate to horizontal at the bottom, but keeping it vertical is fine too.

In short, if there's any possibility a person's elbow or shoulder could hyper-extend, they shouldn't be using kettlebells at all.
They should have guided exercises with a training professional before touching a kettlebell.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Pavel bastardised GS , Americanized it and made a killing off it. The swing is just a part of the snatch in GS. Pavel turned it into a main movment.

That's not necessarily a bad thing.
Several exercises and pieces of equipment have evolved over the decades.

Just because an old style is old doesn't make it better.
But also a new style is new doesn't mean it's better.
But old techniques have details in them that may have little to no benefit, or the benefits are miniscule to the point they don't matter.
Hence, the evolution of the exercise & technique.

The video I attached covers it.

I rotate my thumb down at the bottom of my single arm swings, but rotate it back as it comes up to top of the swing as per the hard style.

Looks like he is just teaching the single arm swings as part of a progression in that video. Keeping your thumb down would burn you out quicker, but transitions into the snatch movement.

I'll give it a shot tomorrow, in the first 10 minutes of my swings.

 

[maximus__]

That's not necessarily a bad thing.
Several exercises and pieces of equipment have evolved over the decades.

Just because an old style is old doesn't make it better.
But also a new style is new doesn't mean it's better.
But old techniques have details in them that may have little to no benefit, or the benefits are miniscule to the point they don't matter.
Hence, the evolution of the exercise & technique.


I'll give it a shot tomorrow, in the first 10 minutes of my swings.

Pavel brought Kettlebells to the main stream. Hard style is great, but technically they are doing the movements less efficiently to create a different adaptation. T
They turned the kettlebell into a jack of all trades type tool and sold it for a fortune. Good on them, because I love my bells.

I use hard style technique for my heavy double work or if I am working on power. I use GS style for higher volume work. You will notice it if you get in a groove and probably find you can hit more reps once you get used to the technique.

I know that Wildman dude does a full series of videos on particular movements. That video you watched will be part of a series that builds to either a snatch or similar.
He is exaggerating the thumb down and elbow up position.

 

[deadshot138]

I've never heard of anyone doing that.
Ideally because no one starts off with swings with a weight that is a possibility of happening unless there's a preexisting injury.

Everybody starts off at a lower weight and gradually increases over the course of their conditioning iimproving.

Typically with single-handed swings is to keep the handle vertical at the top of the swing if only to make it far easier to switch hands while doing alternates. It's fine to have the handle rotate to horizontal at the bottom, but keeping it vertical is fine too.

In short, if there's any possibility a person's elbow or shoulder could hyper-extend, they shouldn't be using kettlebells at all.
They should have guided exercises with a training professional before touching a kettlebell.

Are you saying turning your thumb down on the hike and then up on the hand switch will overly fatigue the forearms?

 

[deadshot138]

Here he explains more

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Pavel brought Kettlebells to the main stream. Hard style is great, but technically they are doing the movements less efficiently to create a different adaptation. T
They turned the kettlebell into a jack of all trades type tool and sold it for a fortune. Good on them, because I love my bells.

It is a 'jack of all trades' tool, but its also 'master at none.'

I love my bells too.
Quit my gym membership and I'm in better shape than I've been than when I went to the gym regularly.

I wish I could go back, just once, to use the equipment to gauge my progress in comparisons to my former maxes.

I use hard style technique for my heavy double work or if I am working on power. I use GS style for higher volume work. You will notice it if you get in a groove and probably find you can hit more reps once you get used to the technique.

I rewatched the video I posted and bashed the YouTuber and I still maintain my opinion he explained the advantages extremely poorly, and he used the typical personal trainer jargon like "use perfect technique."

If he explained it actually was a GS-style swing and the origins of it it would have been a much more respectable tutorial, as well as the importance of using a 'hook-grip' which he completely left out which should be extremely important in introducing single-handed swings.

The videos you posted were more thorough.

I know that Wildman dude does a full series of videos on particular movements. That video you watched will be part of a series that builds to either a snatch or similar.
He is exaggerating the thumb down and elbow up position.

No professional trainer who is explaining exercises to newbies should exaggerate anything, especially related to kettlebells which he constantly is reminding everyone some exercises could injure them.

Just based off that one video I know to avoid his tutorial videos. Far too many red flags in a short video while trying to sound like an authority figure on the subject.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Are you saying turning your thumb down on the hike and then up on the hand switch will overly fatigue the forearms?

I've never done that.
Typically on every of my single-handed swings the handle is vertical (12 o'clock / 6 o'clock) at the top of the swing, and at the bottom its horizontal (9 o'clock / 3 o'clock).

Until this discussion I had no idea that some do a complete 180* rotation.

Guess I'll experience it myself tomorrow, and see if it has any significant difference in forearm exertion & fatigue.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Here he explains more

@0:20
"If your hip-timing is off or your arm is in the wrong place you won't snap your elbow in half."
Oh fuck this guy.
I bet V-Shred's kettlebell videos are less full of shit.

Edit -

'I am a celebrity trainer.'
Why am I not surprised.

 

[deadshot138]

I've never done that.
Typically on every of my single-handed swings the handle is vertical (12 o'clock / 6 o'clock) at the top of the swing, and at the bottom its horizontal (9 o'clock / 3 o'clock).

Until this discussion I had no idea that some do a complete 180* rotation.

Guess I'll experience it myself tomorrow, and see if it has any significant difference in forearm exertion & fatigue.

I've been doing the complete 180 degree turn for years. Forearm fatigue is my only complaint, curious if it's just me or if it's normal

 

[deadshot138]

@0:20
"If your hip-timing is off or your arm is in the wrong place you won't snap your elbow in half."
Oh fuck this guy.
I bet V-Shred's kettlebell videos are less full of shit.

Edit -
View attachment 1080935
'I am a celebrity trainer.'
Why am I not surprised.

So is your thumb up the entire time or do you only turn 90 degrees

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I've been doing the complete 180 degree turn for years. Forearm fatigue is my only complaint, curious if it's just me or if it's normal

Increased forearm burn sounds like a great way to increase the fatigue, which is the entire point of exercising.

So is your thumb up the entire time or do you only turn 90 degrees

Turn 90 degrees.
Always have. Its a natural wrist rotation for me.
Keeping it at vertical for the entire swing doesn't feel natural, so I'm curious turning it 180 degrees will also feel unnatural.

 

[deadshot138]

Increased forearm burn sounds like a great way to increase the fatigue, which is the entire point of exercising.



Turn 90 degrees.
Always have. Its a natural wrist rotation for me.
Keeping it at vertical for the entire swing doesn't feel natural, so I'm curious turning it 180 degrees will also feel unnatural.

Yeah but forearm discomfort isn't the point of kettlebell swings.

 

[maximus__]

It is a 'jack of all trades' tool, but its also 'master at none.'

I love my bells too.
Quit my gym membership and I'm in better shape than I've been than when I went to the gym regularly.

I wish I could go back, just once, to use the equipment to gauge my progress in comparisons to my former maxes.



I rewatched the video I posted and bashed the YouTuber and I still maintain my opinion he explained the advantages extremely poorly, and he used the typical personal trainer jargon like "use perfect technique."

If he explained it actually was a GS-style swing and the origins of it it would have been a much more respectable tutorial, as well as the importance of using a 'hook-grip' which he completely left out which should be extremely important in introducing single-handed swings.

The videos you posted were more thorough.

No professional trainer who is explaining exercises to newbies should exaggerate anything, especially related to kettlebells which he constantly is reminding everyone some exercises could injure them.

Just based off that one video I know to avoid his tutorial videos. Far too many red flags in a short video while trying to sound like an authority figure on the subject.

I love my kettlebells, but to be honest I rate Dumbells more for the explosive variations of single arm swings, jerks and snatches. Kettlebells are better for higher rep, high volume sets, but 1-5 reps for power just feel more explosive with a dumbell to me.

I have a full set up at home, just lacking an indoor cardio option. Grab yourself a cheap power rack, bar and plates etc. They are so cheap these days. I always get the idea to grab a gym membership and then cancel within a month or two, after having to work around other people.

Yeah I am not a massive fan of that guy personally. I recently used his videos to refresh some clubbell technique and I didn't like the way he put the video together either.
His sandbag stuff was better, but it's pretty hard to screw that up.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Feel like I need to correct myself after ranting about the Wildman tutorial implying your thumb pointing at the 6 o'clock angle was the only *correct* way to do single-handed swings.

I watched a through swinging tutorial by LebeStark, whom I've cited many times throughout this thread, and I've always thought he rotates the handle beyond 90degrees / horizontal to what around 120 degrees, but after watching this old swinging tutorial apparently he also rotates his thumb down to 6 o'clock, or close to it.



The difference is he just makes a minor note of it, and you can even see in his videos other people doing it differently, and he's not teaching newbies to keep the thumbs-down position for the entire swing, which looks to be very awkward on the elbow the higher the swing goes and even Wildman's swings go stomach-high when swings should at least go chest-high and ideally head-high.

One of the absolute best things about kettlebells is the variations of technique and form, as well as the ongoing debates of what is *best.* However at the same time there's no such thing as 100% correctness on this subject.

And even if one way of doing things is *best*, the other means may just be a slight deviation for 99% or 98% of the exact same result. No biggie.

But, what I will maintain my criticism of Wildman for is the fear-longering of injury... disclocating an elbow... if not doing it his exact way.



Somebody please show me an example of an elbow being injured by hitting it on an inner thigh during a swing. Please, just one.

I could understand... maybe... if that note was for elderly people beginning to learn kettlebells. But one of the most annoying warnings I've heard about kettlebells is 'oh they're so dangerous.'

Just like with every other piece of gym equipment they can be dangerous if not properly used.
How many montages of idiots tripping on treadmills. They're the source for the most injuries from gyms, but gyms are full of them.

Anyway, rant over.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Just finished a 40 minute workout and I'm beat.
Typically I take a day off in-between workouts to recover, but to complete that 10K Challenge within a month I have to increase the number of workouts.

So my schedule was Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. Now its Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, & Friday.

And unlike yesterday I got winded and took a break 25 minutes in, and to make up for it I did another 5 minutes (4×20 sets).

As for the technique change to turn my thumb down to 6 o'clock, I did it and didn't notice any additional fatigue, but I'm still a bit fatigued from yesterday. So I'm not in the best position to gauge if there's any real benefit. But I did 10 minutes of it and felt indifferent.

If you like it, that's fine. I won't tell you you're wrong.
Who here is really an expert on kettlebells anyway.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Yeah but forearm discomfort isn't the point of kettlebell swings.

If I could respectfully give my 2 cents... while having sore forearms... forearm strain is a side-benefit of swings.

A kettlebell are basically cannon balls with a handle, and using one... just one... puts the body in a off-balance position and its using muscles that you don't even realize you're using to maintain balance.
So of course, muscles directly related to holding the kettlebell are effected... increased strain... resulting in greater strength of the hands, forearms, and shoulder.

One of the biggest contributors to the 'what the hell' effect.

Forearm strain isn't a bug, its a feature.

 

[deadshot138]

Just finished a 40 minute workout and I'm beat.
Typically I take a day off in-between workouts to recover, but to complete that 10K Challenge within a month I have to increase the number of workouts.

So my schedule was Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. Now its Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, & Friday.

And unlike yesterday I got winded and took a break 25 minutes in, and to make up for it I did another 5 minutes (4×20 sets).

As for the technique change to turn my thumb down to 6 o'clock, I did it and didn't notice any additional fatigue, but I'm still a bit fatigued from yesterday. So I'm not in the best position to gauge if there's any real benefit. But I did 10 minutes of it and felt indifferent.

If you like it, that's fine. I won't tell you you're wrong.
Who here is really an expert on kettlebells anyway.

Id like to think I know a thing or two about kettlebells. Been using them for years. Granted I don't have any certs. But I can clean and press the 48kg for reps, snatch the 44kg for reps, and do all the frilly Turkish get up stuff with 32-40kg.

 

[deadshot138]

If I could respectfully give my 2 cents... while having sore forearms... forearm strain is a side-benefit of swings.

A kettlebell are basically cannon balls with a handle, and using one... just one... puts the body in a off-balance position and its using muscles that you don't even realize you're using to maintain balance.
So of course, muscles directly related to holding the kettlebell are effected... increased strain... resulting in greater strength of the hands, forearms, and shoulder.

One of the biggest contributors to the 'what the hell' effect.

Forearm strain isn't a bug, its a feature.

True, and the more I swing the less the forearms hurt because of adaptation. It just seems those muscles are the first to lose adaptation when you stop swinging for a while also.