Kenny Florian And Jon Anik schooling Jones haters. The myth Jones got outstruck

[humdizzle]

Lol Reyes hit nothing but air and his fan boys want to give him the round.

 

[TheToqueville]

Not a single strike landed.

@ScarfaceJr



Kenny bless

Great thread and 100% true.

But we all know that the Jones hate isnt grounded in any logic or facts.ots just whatever sounds good at the time.

 

[Morning Star]

TS gone full blown troll. Gonna post that same clip all day and ignore the other 14:48 of the 1st 3 rounds?

Btw I didn't see Jones landing anything there either, some nice defense and a little running. Guess that's more important than landing strikes.

 

[ScarfaceJr]

You guys are using fight metrics to justify Reyes outstriking Jones.

Besides an uppercut, a body kick and one other good punch reyes landed, the rest was pretty much just pitter patter or flat out miss/evaded

Reyes left the arena in a wheelchair. Jones walked home.

who is you guys?
No me, I'm using my eyes that I saw to watch the fight saturday night. And I saw Jones get outstruck the first 3 rounds of the fight.

yall sac worshippers are something else

 

[Iron Nick]

Yes, Reyes has missed a lot of strikes @Verace - doesn't change the fact that he has landed more though.
Also: if you assume that those judges are generally bad at recognizing how many strikes actually landed, then you can't only say that about Reyes, but have to say it about Jones as well.

What's also true, is that Reyes has Jones had hurt so bad at the beginning of the fourth (18 seconds in, after clearly landing a powerful left straight and a left hook to Jones face as well) that Jon immediately started to wrestle, making even Dominick Cruz (who at least in the stand up should be able to recognize a few things) saying that Jones is hurt.
Another thing is, that Reyes landed the majority of his strikes on the head and body of Jones, while Jones was only outlanding Reyes on leg kicks.

Significant strikes landed by target (Jones in red, Reyes in blue):

Head: 31 to 41 significant strikes landed

Body: 30 to 48 significant strikes landed

Legs: 43 to 27 significant strikes landed

Moreover, the octagon control/aggression argument does not really make sense, as (to quote analyst Jack Slack here) "if you're moving forward constantly but not doing anything about the strikes and not landing your own strikes, the only thing you're really dictating is not the pace, but the pace at which you lose."
Aggression and moving forward is worthless if it comes at the cost of being outlanded.

As for the grappling exchanges: Jones landed one takedown in round four (where he literally couldn't keep Reyes on the floor for one second) and another one in the last round, where Reyes was (technically) on the ground for 4-6 seconds.

Overall, at least three rounds should go to Reyes, whereas Jones had the nod in round five and - depending on how much value you put on a takedown that resulted in no top control - maybe in round four, as five of the seven strikes that Jon landed more in that round were leg kicks, whereas Reyes had Jon hurt at the aforementioned beginning of that round.

@GrayArea @20falarVerdades @TheToqueville @Ken Fresno i know you guys have been (more or less) arguing back and forth in favor of Jones, while i had Reyes winning, so i figured i'd tag you in this response to Verace OP instead of answering to each of you in too many threads.
An answer from you - preferably without any insults or ad hominems - would be appreciated.

Note to @TheToqueville: in case you bring it up: i guess St-Pierre vs Hendricks could have gone either way, but despite absorbing the more powerful shots, St-Pierre did at least outstrike Hendricks and had the upper hand in the wrestling exchanges as well (landing three takedowns, compared to Hendricks' two.)

 

[SoberAwakening]

Watched the fight back last night based off of striking, grappling, aggressiveness and octagon control (feel like I'm forgetting one). I'm no judge, so I don't know the intricacies of MMA. Either way, Jones won by a slim margin, but he won. And I put 100 bucks down on Reyes. It just felt like this dude was game and he was for the first few rounds.

 

[One MMA Fan]

I had Reyes winning 3-2.

Don't like either guy, not employed by either guy, not a UFC company man either.

 

[DarkneT]

what? he was missing?

Literally I don’t think AA landed a punch on fedor
I remember someone breaking the fight down in slow mo from all angles and he was slipping them all

 

[Final Say]

I specifically remember saying after round 3, ‘could be 2-1, could be 3-0 Reyes’

so even tho I hate PED abusers, this isn’t a soapbox I’m willing to hop on

 

[bangard]

Well if you want to argue they didn't land and it's not effective striking, then it's just aggression which is what people are arguing Jones won rounds for anyway

Either way Reyes won the first 3

Stop making sense! Jon won every aspect of the fight even when he didn't.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

These are the same people that think Thiago Santos should be champion because he was winging big overhands that came nowhere close to Jon. They just want him to lose SO BADLY and he WON'T! reeeeeeeeeee

 

[blaseblah]

There's probably still people thinking that instead of losing balance, Jones got knocked down in the first by that body punch.

indeed

Getting knocked down tends to cause loss of balance.

 

[Ken Fresno]

Yes, Reyes has missed a lot of strikes @Verace - doesn't change the fact that he has landed more though.
Also: if you assume that those judges are generally bad at recognizing how many strikes actually landed, then you can't only say that about Reyes, but have to say it about Jones as well.

What's also true, is that Reyes has Jones had hurt so bad at the beginning of the fourth (18 seconds in, after clearly landing a powerful left straight and a left hook to Jones face as well) that Jon immediately started to wrestle, making even Dominick Cruz (who at least in the stand up should be able to recognize a few things) saying that Jones is hurt.
Another thing is, that Reyes landed the majority of his strikes on the head and body of Jones, while Jones was only outlanding Reyes on leg kicks.

Significant strikes landed by target (Jones in red, Reyes in blue):

Head: 31 to 41 significant strikes landed

Body: 30 to 48 significant strikes landed

Legs: 43 to 27 significant strikes landed

Moreover, the octagon control/aggression argument does not really make sense, as (to quote analyst Jack Slack here) "if you're moving forward constantly but not doing anything about the strikes and not landing your own strikes, the only thing you're really dictating is not the pace, but the pace at which you lose."
Aggression and moving forward is worthless if it comes at the cost of being outlanded.

As for the grappling exchanges: Jones landed one takedown in round four (where he literally couldn't keep Reyes on the floor for one second) and another one in the last round, where Reyes was (technically) on the ground for 4-6 seconds.

Overall, at least three rounds should go to Reyes, whereas Jones had the nod in round five and - depending on how much value you put on a takedown that resulted in no top control - maybe in round four, as five of the seven strikes that Jon landed more in that round were leg kicks, whereas Reyes had Jon hurt at the aforementioned beginning of that round.

@GrayArea @20falarVerdades @TheToqueville @Ken Fresno i know you guys have been (more or less) arguing back and forth in favor of Jones, while i had Reyes winning, so i figured i'd tag you in this response to Verace OP instead of answering to each of you in too many threads.
An answer from you - preferably without any insults or ad hominems - would be appreciated.

Note to @TheToqueville: in case you bring it up: i guess St-Pierre vs Hendricks could have gone either way, but despite absorbing the more powerful shots, St-Pierre did at least outstrike Hendricks and had the upper hand in the wrestling exchanges as well (landing three takedowns, compared to Hendricks' two.)

Fair enough.

I would say there are 2 areas where the people supporting the Jones decision would disagree with you.

1) The accuracy of the Fight Metrics. While it's true that they could also miscalculate Jones strikes, it is much more likely that Reyes benefited from more mistakes. He was throwing more flurries, and Jones does less to avoid shots.

Jones is the more skilled, technical defensive fighter. So he narrowly avoids a lot more shots than his opponents, who will generally make more drastic movements to avoid. As evidenced by the exchange that @Verace posted.

On top of this, Jones is actually doing more "unseen" damage with his strikes. The leg kicks may be getting recorded equally, but Jones is clearly more effective with doing damage. As evidenced by the substantial damage revealed when the adrenaline wore off on his last 2 opponents. And even the way Gustafson was completely halted in his attack by leg kicks in their rematch.

2) The definition and value of "effective aggression". You, like most people objecting to the scoring, are saying that Jones simply "moved forward" with "no real effect on Reyes". As if the fact Reyes had nothing to offer in the last 2 rounds is not clear evidence of the effectiveness of his pressure.

The metric you should look up for your "clear factual evidence" is the metric of distance covered in the cage. I bet Reyes covered 5 times the distance, while moving backwards. Which is exhausting. Which is what makes the last 2 rounds a matter of survival for Reyes, and not pulling out the decision.

Which is the exact purpose of effective aggression. So while "dictating the pace at which you lose" is a cute little quote to memorize and use every time you think it's applicable, it does not apply here.

Jones 2,3,4,5

 

[ConorFacts]

I had Reyes winning 3-2.

Don't like either guy, not employed by either guy, not a UFC company man either.

so you think that ufc guys or even the ufc is corrupt?

 

[Mob69]

Anik and Florian working hard to ensure the meal ticket remains viable.

 

[Kevster]

Watch it back in slow motion, upside down by candlelight then Jones totally dominates.

These threads just come across as people trying to convince themselves.

 

[SKYNET]

Not a single strike landed

Jones did well moving away from some really great octagon control there by Reyes

 

[One MMA Fan]

so you think that ufc guys or even the ufc is corrupt?

The UFC commentators are human is what I'm saying.

The UFC is a business and it is probably corrupt, maybe not blatantly in your face but we had good ideas of how they do business, match ups etc.. if they have a financial interest in X fighter be sure he will have an easier road ahead of him/her.

Anyway of course they will rematch cause the LHW is kinda dead in the water there is nothing interesting for the fans there or for the UFC to make money and views from.

 

[Jean-Claude_Bloodsport]

I said the same thing. Fightmetric is a joke , just nerds who don't know shit about fighting counting strikes that don't land.

 

[SKYNET]

The UFC commentators are human is what I'm saying.
The UFC is a business and it is probably corrupt, maybe not blatantly in your face but we had good ideas of how they do business, match ups etc.. if they have a financial interest in X fighter be sure he will have an easier road ahead of him/her.
Anyway of course they will rematch cause the LHW is kinda dead in the water there is nothing interesting for the fans there or for the UFC to make money and views from there to be honest.

Don't forget Corey Anderson vs Jan Blachowicz barn burner coming up this weekend

I'm with you a rematch is what everyone deserves including the well being of the LHW division. Corey or Jan are gonna be really upset tho