Karo's no-gi Judo

TheMaster

Take The Road To Reality
@red
Joined
May 25, 2002
Messages
8,960
Reaction score
11,366
Anyone trained this?

https://nogi-judo.com/


Would like to see no-gi Judo take off more.

Karo's students like Neil Melanson seem to be having big success even without a competition background.

Shame that Karo himself doesn't seem to get the recognition he deserves as a coach.
 
Unfortunately there a massive resistance by Judokas to even contemplate training no gi judo.

The ones that seems interested just end up at Bjj anyway.

Karo and his team mates are just Armenians Americans with a base of Judo that train for MMA.

I think there are a couple of posters that train there.
 
Unfortunately there a massive resistance by Judokas to even contemplate training no gi judo.

The ones that seems interested just end up at Bjj anyway.

Karo and his team mates are just Armenians Americans with a base of Judo that train for MMA.

I think there are a couple of posters that train there.

Judo federations in general are quite anti MMA and with very good reason - the circus and sport of cage fighting is nothing like what Jigoro Kano envisioned of martial arts even if modified Judo in the form of BJJ is the basis of MMA.
So they want to preserve the discipline, educational and 'school curriculum' image of Judo around the world.
I suppose for the majority of them why would u do no gi unless u wanted to do MMA?

On a technical level I think no-gi Judo gels better with a catch approach. The emphasis on top control and the more explosive pace and submissions of Judo compared to BJJ fits naturally with catch.
This goes back to Maeda doing catch bouts with his Judo.
Even Lebell, Gokor and hence Karo have much more of a catch influence alongside the Judo.

Judo seems to have been 'left out' of the whole MMA revolution to a large extent but no-gi Judo is a great way for them to get back into it.
 
Judo federations in general are quite anti MMA and with very good reason - the circus and sport of cage fighting is nothing like what Jigoro Kano envisioned of martial arts even if modified Judo in the form of BJJ is the basis of MMA.
So they want to preserve the discipline, educational and 'school curriculum' image of Judo around the world.
I suppose for the majority of them why would u do no gi unless u wanted to do MMA?

On a technical level I think no-gi Judo gels better with a catch approach. The emphasis on top control and the more explosive pace and submissions of Judo compared to BJJ fits naturally with catch.
This goes back to Maeda doing catch bouts with his Judo.
Even Lebell, Gokor and hence Karo have much more of a catch influence alongside the Judo.

Judo seems to have been 'left out' of the whole MMA revolution to a large extent but no-gi Judo is a great way for them to get back into it.
its very hard t hit judo throws on good guys inn mma just a fact theirs reason most guys go for double legs body locks and high crotch dump finishes
 
There is a rule set for nogi judo under freestyle rules but competitions seem to be few and far between if they are still happening at all. I currently train under the "freestyle" judo banner and while it isn't a super regular thing it isn't unusual for us to do nogi classes.

It looks a lot more like wrestling at least for me. I shoot a lot more singles and doubles. I find when the gi grips are not involved the upright stance of judo just doesn't work as well for me. Mostly likely I am just not proficient enough but it is what it is.
 
Modern Judo is based on Gi gripping.

Makes it pointless to drill grabbing at a high level when you just get penalized.

Becoming an Olympic sport is a blessing-level of athletes-and a curse-blind focus on a specific rule set training.
 
Once you start the no gi judo path, you tend to end up either in a wrestling room or doing submission grappling. Once the gi goes, it is just too identical to other alternatives to gain any traction among people. This also combined with a general distaste for no gi in the sport’s governing bodies.

I get my no gi judo fix in MMA of all places.
 
Once you start the no gi judo path, you tend to end up either in a wrestling room or doing submission grappling. Once the gi goes, it is just too identical to other alternatives to gain any traction among people. This also combined with a general distaste for no gi in the sport’s governing bodies.

I get my no gi judo fix in MMA of all places.
I'm not sure why you say this. Judo technique carries a certain philosophical natuer which is contrary to wrestling... generalized submission grappling I guess. The gi is an aid to learning the art... and goes way beyond technique. It's HOW O Ouchi gari (in the OP vid) is performed, not 'takedown.' Here's none other than Ronda Rousey with a demo, though she makes for a very poor ambassador of traditional Judo, IHMO.
How to do an Ouchi Gari Grip in Judo | Ronda Rousey’s Dojo #9
310,135 views
•Oct 24, 2019


Ronda Rousey

926K subscribers

Judo Olympian Ronda Rousey goes through the basic ouchi gari technique step-by-step for aspiring judokas. Do it a million billion times because it links to nearly everything!

llllI'll There's Judo lessons in this video. One is most people don't understand that there is different approaches to effecting the throw. This makes it quite versatile in actual application. It also allows for both individual expression in action. Ouchi gari here is done with two different variations on the opening move,,, or subvariations although maybe Ronda doesn't recognize it... she's so hard wired having done the throw a 'billion' times... as the byline states.

A second lesson is that it isn't necessary to get the arm release that Karo goes for in his MMA demo. Not that that isn't a nice wrinkle and only serves to highlight the versatility of the philosophy of the overall through. We spend time with the gi in Judo so as to learn, get, then hone the particular technique. Not get caught up in the equipment or other physical trappings of the art like MMA with it's 'cage control,' etc. So stupid. The global challenge is to control the opponent. The cage is just some ancillary factor.

I feel for me this throw makes a good alternative, but it's not one of my bread & butters. Very smart one to have in your arsenal, however, I totally get with Ronda on that score.

One final word, or lesson. Ronda is practicing with a larger, stronger male. Philosophically, this is the practical aim of Judo... to overcome the greater physical challenge with the philosophy of the art... which does spring from a millions-billion practices. For the Roses of the world,,, you don't try to dodge Andrade,,, you use all her size & strength against her which takes considerably more skill than the great wrestling Jessica does have. On the philosophy end, never rely on technique absent philosophy. It's not about just feeling good... it's about remaining true to the core principles of the art... which makes for one big lesson Ronda whiffed.
 
There is a rule set for nogi judo under freestyle rules but competitions seem to be few and far between if they are still happening at all. I currently train under the "freestyle" judo banner and while it isn't a super regular thing it isn't unusual for us to do nogi classes.

It looks a lot more like wrestling at least for me. I shoot a lot more singles and doubles. I find when the gi grips are not involved the upright stance of judo just doesn't work as well for me. Mostly likely I am just not proficient enough but it is what it is.

Seems the issue is the 'freestyle rules'. Maybe stick to competition Judo rules and don't allow double and singles to force the throws.
People would probably say it makes it too much like Greco, but there are huge differences still.

Or you could score it differently. An Ippon for a throw where you stay standing and they hit their back or where you have body control to land in a pin position, but just a half point for a leg takedown since you end in half guard or guard whereas a throw is much better positionally.

Rules are everything for how it is practiced, seems they need to be tweaked for the way no-Gi Judo is done to get the most out of it, just doing freestyle rules which has far lesser awareness of submission positions and transitions and always 'cheap' singles and doubles would seem pointless.
 
tbh certain things just dont work well in no gi judo especially when comes to mma

o uchi gari the wrestling inside trip way is much better i feel dropping all way down with knee i feel judo guys when they lock up dont feel near as tight as wrestlers do they like to get wrist control a single underhook ad at times collar ties from what i see u rarely see any of the big counter throws like tai toshi mostly u see uchi mata harai goshi or seio nage type throws u dont see other throws outside of those hardly at pro mma level

i just feel if u wana be a no gi takedown guy its best to learn wrestling as wrestlers have better control judo guys like to stand taller wrestlers have lower center of gravity on average so they will have the advantage
 


i saw it was ok nothing to special

this however is the bets iv seen no gi ura nage ect lots good stuff with over under control i believe its to hard to control a guy with a single underhook and wrist control i mma unless they are at the fence
https://bjjfanatics.com/collections/dvd/products/judo-takedowns-for-no-gi-by-vladir-arujo
 
I wish Jason Morris would make a No-gi judo instructional. He is a Olympic silver medalist in Judo and I beleive he coached Rhonda Rousey for a while. On top of that he is a wrestling all american and a state wrestling champ. Here is a highlight video of him "wrestling". I'd like an instructional on these moves.

 
I wish Jason Morris would make a No-gi judo instructional. He is a Olympic silver medalist in Judo and I beleive he coached Rhonda Rousey for a while. On top of that he is a wrestling all american and a state wrestling champ. Here is a highlight video of him "wrestling". I'd like an instructional on these moves.



Firas had him in for a seminar at Tristar 3 years ago and alluded to the idea of releasing it as a DVD, but it never happened
 
dice rounds open mat is the best. decide your roll/rest split, then roll a die. odds/evens is pajamas/no pajamas, 1-3 are judo, zhoozheezhoo, and rassling in whichever order is your favorite. you can decide not to repeat a round til you've done all faces, or whatever.

historically, all of my best training partners have cross-trained either before we've met or after i've emasculated them into it.

longevity in grappling is tough without a conscientious effort towards recovery and injury mitigation. like that comedian said, your best bet is to try to roll more with the dudes who got hugged by their dad
 
Seems the issue is the 'freestyle rules'. Maybe stick to competition Judo rules and don't allow double and singles to force the throws.
People would probably say it makes it too much like Greco, but there are huge differences still.

Or you could score it differently. An Ippon for a throw where you stay standing and they hit their back or where you have body control to land in a pin position, but just a half point for a leg takedown since you end in half guard or guard whereas a throw is much better positionally.

Rules are everything for how it is practiced, seems they need to be tweaked for the way no-Gi Judo is done to get the most out of it, just doing freestyle rules which has far lesser awareness of submission positions and transitions and always 'cheap' singles and doubles would seem pointless.


Oh I've never competed under nogi freestyle judo rules. I just know they exist. We just do nogi occasionally and personally it looks more like wrestling on my end.
 
Oh I've never competed under nogi freestyle judo rules. I just know they exist. We just do nogi occasionally and personally it looks more like wrestling on my end.
didnt know they had no gi judo rules lol tbh id love to see guys doing udo without the gi tos ee how they look sparring

is ee tons guys doing techniques and funny how almost all of them do things different without a lapel i notice majority prefer wrist and underhook control or eve n using a whizzer to uchi or harai goshi
 
Firas had him in for a seminar at Tristar 3 years ago and alluded to the idea of releasing it as a DVD, but it never happened


I've been waiting for this for a long time. We need to bother Firas about this until he releases the footage!
 
Back
Top