Karl Gotch style training?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Highway99, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    Does anyone adhere to the type of conditioning championed by Karl Gotch? High rep calisthenics etc...

    What has you experience been like with it, pros/cons?

    Surely this kind of training isn't meant to be a daily thing, right?



    Thanks
     
  2. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    Amazing timing. I was just watching some Indian wrestling workout vids and they're essentially doing hindu push-ups as a burpee/sprawl type activity. Apparently it's no big deal for them to do them for 30-60 minute straight, which can be as many as 4000 reps.



    It's definitely aerobic at that point so maybe they could do it every day. And I don't know how strong they are, but I experimentally dropped down to do 2 minutes of these things and anyone who can do those for an hour is going to have one unstoppable gas tank, imo.
     
  3. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    This guy did 2503 Hindu push-ups in 20 minutes: a new record. I have no idea how strong he is, but he would outlast me in a wrestling match 1000 times over.

    A few years ago a cyclist friend of mine was telling me... I forget the details, damnit... was telling me what made Lance Armstrong so successful (aside from the drugs)... and it was that he pedaled at a different rate than was common, letting him work aerobically and last much longer. (I'm 99% sure this is what he said. I don't remember if that meant pedaling more quickly or more slowly.)

    Joel Jamieson's HICT protocol is basically heavy aerobics for singles as far as I can tell.

    This is what they were doing on the Gotch conditioning CD's I got my hands on:



    Also I remember reading in Grappling or Black Belt around 2002 that Frank Shamrock had been training with high rep calisthenics before he turned to kettlebells for his Cesar fight and he said anything over 500 squats hurt his knees.

    /rambling
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
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  4. ifight907

    ifight907 Yellow Belt

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    This is my take away from finding and using it at a young age (19). First, I'm a skinny guy. Always was growing up. I walk around at 148, fight at 135 or 25, depending.

    I found Matt Furey's books when I first started training Jits. I always had a respect for weightlifting, but a tad of trepidation. I tweaked my back a few times, but honestly, my crooked spine may have caused that. So, hitting iron to get strong didn't happen in my youth, in spite of playing most every sport growing up, then switching to CC, Track, and Wrestling in h.s.

    I picked up Furey's books to get stronger for Jits. Everything he put in Combat Conditioning, he ripped off Gotch. But he pays respect in the book to Gotch, who I hadn't heard of, so whatevs. The moves like Hindu push-ups and squats, bridges, reverse push-ups will make you stronger as you start to add more reps. It's a slower progression, but it's so much more of a sure thing you'll be injury free.

    Use the handstand push-ups religiously. Try to do as many as you can every day. It builds so much upper body strength. And he mentions them very briefly, since it's supposed to be equipment free, but do pull-ups and dips a lot. Yes, you can do it 5 days a week. When I get closer to a fight, I drop the weights but for maybe 1 day a week.

    That's the catch to this. Furey also talks about it. If you're using weights too, the body weight stuff can help. It did for me. I am admittedly skinny as hell, but I'm stronger than I look. It's all in what you're going for. If you're looking to boost cardio, you go the Gotch/Furey route. Less worried about cardio, want size and strength faster, please iron.

    Sorry so long a post. Have a ton of time with this and wanted to give a fair assessment, regardless.
     
  5. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    Thanks for the responses guys....

    I would imagine those guys in the videos are pretty strong when you combine those exercises with wrestling.

    I did Hindu squats for a while, only getting up to about 120 at once and my legs got to about 27 inches.

    Funny that you mention Joel Jamieson, I've been considering taking up grappling/boxing purely as a hobby and Joel's place is next door to the place I'm looking at.
     
  6. corpse

    corpse Bannned

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    first, the kushtis do a lot of barbell, dumbbell, stone weights, heavy macebell stuff, rope climbing etc. second, they are notorious for having wrecked joints after their "career". they do this crap for a living, 6 to 8 hours a day, six days a week.

    i did 2 years of a deck of cards routine with these exercises. i got a great stamina from it and i was weak like a pussy.
    you will become strong from strength training and not from doing 1000 pushups in a row.
     
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  7. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    Yeah I believe Karl Gotch had a hip replacement at some point. But he was strong as the dickens though.
     
  8. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    The traditional/Indian/Persian methods are pretty damn good for building local muscular endurance without screwing your mobility.
     
  9. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    If you adopted this style of training, how necessary is doing cardio, given that the training itself is already cardiovascularly taxing.
     
  10. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    That would depend on what you're training for.
     
  11. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    I suppose so. If I recall correctly Gotch did roadwork as well. What would you add to it if you're a hobbiest? Longer low intensity cardio or something like HIIT?

    I guess if you're just a normal person trying to keep in shape it would suffice all on its own.
     
  12. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    for MMA? 2 days a week low intensity, 2 at high, which is what I currently do. Of course it's all very specific to the person and the goal.
     
  13. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    Thanks, I've never trained in any discipline. I'm considering joining a gym as a hobby and was trying to see how people manage training and S&C.

    The gym I'm looking at has submission wrestling and boxing classes on Monday and Wednesday. So I figure I can do plenty of S&C on the other days of the week.

    (and thats assuming I can even summon the courage to walk in the place, its a pretty well thought of gym, and I don't know if they'd appreciate a noob trying to join up...lol)

    Thanks again.
     
  14. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    If it's a business, they want new people signing up. That's the entire point.
     
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  15. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    Thats true...I've heard that its a friendly place, but also can be rough.
     
  16. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    Keep in mind for the volume of time in Gotch style training is that pro wrestling matches could have a potentially unlimited number of rounds, so training at the peak power and intensity of modern wrestling would be counter productive.
     
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  17. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    So you mean keep the sets and reps down to a reasonable amount?
     
  18. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    I mean if you're training for a specific sport or event, you may have to change volumes or intensities
     
  19. Highway99

    Highway99 White Belt

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    Ah, got it...thanks.

    I was going to start with a A/B workout 4 days a week see how that works.
     
  20. JosephDredd

    JosephDredd Gold Belt

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    If you really want to do a lot of high-rep calisthenics, I suggest you follow the simplefit.org program. Right now some of the pages are down and you need to use the wayback machine.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20120218204117/http://www.simplefit.org/bodyweight-exercises.html

    It's a really great program that is really simple and well-designed.

    Workout 1 is EDT style, which is great for strength and conditioning.

    Workout 2 is meant to be done to generate power -- which means strict form and exploding maximally with the movement. Great for strength.

    Workout 3 is a bit of everything depending on where you are in the progressions. Early levels are great for strength, higher repetition levels great for endurance.

    When you can do workout 3 in under 5 minutes it's time to go to the next level.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016

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