'Kardio' Kamaru Usman: "I haven't ran in three years, I have bad knees"

[Hirashin]

30% Marty ftw!

 

[Clear Winner]

he looks like a middleweight and has the best cardio in the UFC ... I wouldnt say he is on the juice, but it is suspect !

Nigerian warrior blood, bro.

 

[Sinthesized]

why run when you can grapple and hit the heavy bag for rounds? way more productive....

Running, especially sprint intervals, is some of the best work you can do for cardio. Why not do both?

 

[fzoid4454]

>you can engage your whole body

that's actually part of why it's not as good as running. When you're running you're doing a movement much more realistic to moving around in a fighting stance, and thus you're training the muscles associated specifically with that movement. You want to focus on working the muscles that actually make you move on land, not the ones that help you move more effectively in the water.

I still think swimming is good cardio though.

That's only if you are running away from hour opponent the entire match. If you are punching, clinching, holding, etc. then you are using your whole body.

Look at elite fighters. Are they built like marathon runners, or are they built more like swimmers?

 

[20falarVerdades]

That's only if you are running away from hour opponent the entire match. If you are punching, clinching, holding, etc. then you are using your whole body.

Look at elite fighters. Are they built like marathon runners, or are they built more like swimmers?

"Elite fighters", sprinters, among others, look like this because of weight training and steroid use

Marathon runners have very little incentive to lift weights, the extra weight it would mostly likely be detrimental to their vo2max

In MMA you need both low and high intensity training, it is a mixed sport.

Roadwork is very important to a fighter

 

[grimballer]

Running is overrated n messed up the knees

there’s better alternatives out there

 

[superpunch]

Knee injuries seem so common in the sport. What part of training is causing them?

 

[fzoid4454]

Its perceived effort vs actual effort.

2nd of all being immersed in water and having a cooling effect makes your heart rate work at a lower pace actually not higher.

Running outside in the heat would make your heart rate go up as it pushes blood towards your skin to cool you off.

Look at all the swimmers who turned triathletes they get out of the water with 10 sometimes 15 minutes headstart and end up losing on the bike/run. Lmfao! Running, Cycling and others are scientifically proven superior cardio training methods.

Lucy Charles last 3 Konas! among others.

As i said swimming is a lot about technique.

Stop spewing shit online.

Its perceived effort vs actual effort.

2nd of all being immersed in water and having a cooling effect makes your heart rate work at a lower pace actually not higher.

Running outside in the heat would make your heart rate go up as it pushes blood towards your skin to cool you off.

Look at all the swimmers who turned triathletes they get out of the water with 10 sometimes 15 minutes headstart and end up losing on the bike/run. Lmfao! Running, Cycling and others are scientifically proven superior cardio training methods.

Lucy Charles last 3 Konas! among others.

As i said swimming is a lot about technique.

Stop spewing shit online.

Running outside in the heat, yes, it would push your heart rate up to cool you off, but it would be less successful at cooling you off, so you'd be unable to maintain a higher intensity level because your body would be unable to keep the core temperature down. Since your core temperature is constantly cooled by being immersed in cool water, that allows you to maintain higher intensity levels over longer periods of time without overheating your body. This was exactly the argument I was making.

If I try to run on a 95 degree, humid day, I'm going to flop and have to quit pretty quickly. If I bail on my workout, and my body is spent and trashed, after about 10 or 15 minutes, how much of that is because I've done a good cardio workout, and how much is overheating, dehydration, etc? If I'm in comfortable circumstances, and are able to work out for an hour or two, maybe my heart rate didn't get pushed higher than when I was on the verge of collapse after a fraction of the time, but I did get a better cardio workout, because I was able to maintain output over time.

You seem to be under the impression that a certain number of heartbeats is the actual training, but it's more of a measurement of how much stress your whole body is under. A lot of things go into what pushes that heart rate higher, as you've pointed out, so I'm not sure why you think getting X beats in a workout is actually the sole measure of cardio training.

Look at the distances for the segments of a triathalon. They do a full marathon, which a world-class runner can cover in just over two hours.

A world class cyclist would cover between 50 and 60 miles in two hours.

A world class swimmer can cover about 8.5K in two hours.

The reason why swimmers get dusted is because, compared to a marathon, their portion of the race is less than 1/2 the equivalent of a marathon, and the biking portion is 2X the equivalence of a marathon.

What kind of roadwork is typically put in for cardio training? It's usually going for a long run. Low intensity, for long periods of time. What kind of training is done for swimming? Typically, high-intensity interval training. Interval sets of varying distances, taking 40 seconds to 2.5 minutes to complete the distance, where you are pushing at a high intensity, and then resting for 15 to 30 seconds, depending on the distance covered. Sets of 5 or 10 repetitions are typical. Which sounds more like something that would apply to an MMA match? High intensity exertion, with brief recovery period in between?

 

[grimballer]

Knee injuries seem so common in the sport. What part of training is causing them?

Excessive pressure put on the knees aka running

 

[HHJ]

Knee injuries seem so common in the sport. What part of training is causing them?

Think about explosively shooting for takedowns all your life,and the toll that takes on the knees and other ligaments.

Ronda came into MMA with her knees bad already,in her 20s from her life time of judo throws,which is why she wasnt even able to shoot for takedowns,which def could have been deciding factor against Holly.

 

[fzoid4454]

"Elite fighters", sprinters, among others, look like this because of weight training and steroid use

Marathon runners have very little incentive to lift weights, the extra weight it would mostly likely be detrimental to their vo2max

In MMA you need both low and high intensity training, it is a mixed sport.

Roadwork is very important to a fighter

We're not disputing the need for cardio, we're talking about whether other forms, besides roadwork is as useful. Everything you just said is an argument against roadwork vs. other forms of training.

They do resistance training because develops physical results that are applicable to their sport.

The body types are more similar because one body type is more suitable for the discipline. If you look at a similar discipline that develops a similar body composition, it stands to reason that those activities are going to be more analogous to each other than the activity that does not develop a similar body type.

I was responding to someone who was claiming that swimming was inferior in building cardio, which, actually, is the opposite of what has been found in pretty much every study. Swimming is one of the very best methods of building cardio, strength, VO2 max..... it's a very complete activity.

Cardio training that also incorporates, naturally, a certain amount of resistance and/or "mixed" training would seem to be a better analog to MMA than just running, wouldn't it?

 

[RNC555]

Running outside in the heat, yes, it would push your heart rate up to cool you off, but it would be less successful at cooling you off, so you'd be unable to maintain a higher intensity level because your body would be unable to keep the core temperature down. Since your core temperature is constantly cooled by being immersed in cool water, that allows you to maintain higher intensity levels over longer periods of time without overheating your body.

Look at the distances for the segments of a triathalon. They do a full marathon, which a world-class runner can cover in just over two hours.

A world class cyclist would cover between 50 and 60 miles in two hours.

A world class swimmer can cover about 8.5K in two hours.

The reason why swimmers get dusted is because, compared to a marathon, their portion of the race is less than 1/2 the equivalent of a marathon, and the biking portion is 2X the equivalence of a marathon.

What kind of roadwork is typically put in for cardio training? It's usually going for a long run. Low intensity, for long periods of time. What kind of training is done for swimming? Typically, high-intensity interval training. Interval sets of varying distances, taking 40 seconds to 2.5 minutes to complete the distance, where you are pushing at a high intensity, and then resting for 15 to 30 seconds, depending on the distance covered. Sets of 5 or 10 repetitions are typical. Which sounds more like something that would apply to an MMA match? High intensity exertion, with brief recovery period in between?

Let me school you a little bit.
The only reason swimmers make it out of the water first isnt due to cardio but mainly due to technical superiority in the water. The only reason they lose on the Bike/Run is due to inferior cardio.

First of all, Swimming is a lot about technique and not actual cardio.

2nd of all if youre starting an endurance race with 10-15 mins head start after months/years of training in cycling/running only to lose the race then your cardio must truly suck horse shit.

There isnt much technique to running every human on earth who isnt handicapped can run. Cycling also has way less technical aspect to it than swimming once you learn how to ride a bike.
If a swimmer is losing a race he had a 10-15 mins head start in during the bike/run then sorry but his cardio is shit.

Road work isnt only low intensity long runs. Youre spreading lies and shit up to support a failed argument. There are sprinters who are 20 times better built for MMA than any swimmer on earth. Way more explosive and way stronger. There is interval work, speed work and other stuff in EVERY running regime!

3rd of all you NEED long slow distance work if you wanna build strong cardio. Training your anaerobic system alone will result in a failed overall cardio system. What is anaerobic for you is aerobic for ppl fitter than you.

There is a reason your heart rate is 190 while running at 15kph while some other runner heart rate is 125 while running at the same speed. The more long/slow distance stuff you do, the higher speed at lower heart rate you can do.

 

[grimballer]

We're biologically made to run for long distances, in theory other forms of cardio should work but in reality running slamming the ground has an unexplained x factor impossible to replace (except epo)

More like walking...

running shoes are made/designed to absorb shock n facilitate running.

Forward bending knees isn’t ideal for running. Especially for bipedal creatures

 

[Franklin U.]

Wow- if true, mind blowing. Yes- there are other ways to build cardio but in the fight game ( unless you're a heavy and sloppy fat ), running a major staple of training.

Hes reached pinnacle of sport.

 

[grimballer]

Let me school you a little bit.
The only reason swimmers make it out of the water first isnt due to cardio but mainly due to technical superiority in the water. The only reason they lose on the Bike/Run is due to inferior cardio.

First of all, Swimming is a lot about technique and not actual cardio.

2nd of all if youre starting an endurance race with 10-15 mins head start after months/years of training in cycling/running only to lose the race then your cardio must truly suck horse shit.

There isnt much technique to running every human on earth who isnt handicapped can run. Cycling also has way less technical aspect to it than swimming once you learn how to ride a bike.
If a swimmer is losing a race he had a 10-15 mins head start in during the bike/run then sorry but his cardio is shit.

Road work isnt only low intensity long runs. Youre spreading lies and shit up to support a failed argument. There are sprinters who are 20 times better built for MMA than any swimmer on earth. Way more explosive and way stronger. There is interval work, speed work and other stuff in EVERY running regime!

3rd of all you NEED long slow distance work if you wanna build strong cardio. Training your anaerobic system alone will result in a failed overall cardio system. What is anaerobic for you is aerobic for ppl fitter than you.

There is a reason your heart rate is 190 while running at 15kph while some other runner heart rate is 125 while running at the same speed. The more long/slow distance stuff you do, the higher speed at lower heart rate you can do.

I’m not gonna argue all your points about swimming vs running, but the the last part is simply not true.

Your high intensity cardio won’t get better by doing long low intensity sessions.

Take any guy who jogs for hours n make him play basketball at high intensity or indoor soccer n he’ll be fried. It’s totally different type of cardio

 

[fzoid4454]

Let me school you a little bit.
The only reason swimmers make it out of the water first isnt due to cardio but mainly due to technical superiority in the water. The only reason they lose on the Bike/Run is due to inferior cardio.

First of all, Swimming is a lot about technique and not actual cardio.

2nd of all if youre starting an endurance race with 10-15 mins head start after months/years of training in cycling/running only to lose the race then your cardio must truly suck horse shit.

There isnt much technique to running every human on earth who isnt handicapped can run. Cycling also has way less technical aspect to it than swimming once you learn how to ride a bike.
If a swimmer is losing a race he had a 10-15 mins head start in during the bike/run then sorry but his cardio is shit.

Road work isnt only low intensity long runs. Youre spreading lies and shit up to support a failed argument. There are sprinters who are 20 times better built for MMA than any swimmer on earth. Way more explosive and way stronger. There is interval work, speed work and other stuff in EVERY running regime!

3rd of all you NEED long slow distance work if you wanna build strong cardio. Training your anaerobic system alone will result in a failed overall cardio system. What is anaerobic for you is aerobic for ppl fitter than you.

There is a reason your heart rate is 190 while running at 15kph while some other runner heart rate is 125 while running at the same speed. The more long/slow distance stuff you do, the higher speed at lower heart rate you can do.

Scientific studies have shown that swimming and running are pretty much equal in developing total cardio fitness. Resting heart rates are similar, swimming naturally develops better VO2 max than running because of the breathing patterns.

Yes, and the more swimming you do, the lower your heart rate as well.

The swimmers aren't losing because they lack cardio, with any discipline, you are going to be at a disadvantage to someone who is more highly specialized in that discipline vs yours. You think cycling doesn't have a huge amount of technical specialization? That's complete nonsense.

Like I said, make the swim 8.5K. When none of the cyclists or runner specialist even make it to the second stage, vs just not being in the lead, then I'll talk about how it's about "failed cardio."

It's funny that you claim swimming doesn't require cardio, but THAT's the discipline that has to be shortened to a tiny fraction of the others because the "cardio" athletes can't hack the distance. If it wasn't a cardio challenge, wouldn't they make it longer, not shorter, to make it more of a cardio challenge? What you think passes for logic really doesn't have a foundation. The actual reason is probably much more straightforward - swimming is the shortest because it is the most challenging of the disciplines, and if you hit the wall in the middle of a bike, you can cruise, glide or slow to a crawl, with a run, you can walk, and still make progress, if you hit the wall in the swim, "drown" is a possibility that doesn't exist in the other disciplines.

Swimmers are able to maintain those kind of interval workouts for 3 hours every day. They put in distance that is the land equivalent of 20 to 30 miles, every day, while doing all those interval sets. Your claim that it results in failed cardio is, again, nonsense.

You're also saying that you need one kind of running to develop cardio, then you have to use a different kind of running to develop explosiveness, but, somehow doing an activity that naturally develops a similar level of cardio fitness by already doing intensity interval work is worse/shit? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[RNC555]

I’m not gonna argue all your points about swimming vs running, but the the last part is simply not true.

Your high intensity cardio won’t get better by doing long low intensity sessions.

Take any guy who jogs for hours n make him play basketball at high intensity or indoor soccer n he’ll be fried. It’s totally different type of cardio

Yes it would actually. This proves you know nothing about running/cardio training. 95%+ Of most elite endurance runners training is spent at an easy slow pace slower than race pace.

I cut my 5k time from 23 to under 20 just doing long/slow distance stuff back in the day.

Read about MAF method.

If you keep running at a low heart rate. 135-145 for long periods of time 90+ minutes, gradually the speed at which you running at will start increasing.
Most elite marathoners/triathletes are running at an extremely fast speed at a very low heart rates which is the only way to maintain it. You cant maintain 180 heart rate for long.

What feels like a sprint to you is 135 Heart beat per minute for others. The best way to increase speed FAST is to do long, slow sessions and make your body more efficient at burning fat as the main source of fuel. When fat is the fuel for your activity you can maintain that activity for long periods of time.
The best way to achieve that isnt to run at an Anaerobic pace (Carb as fuel).

Ppl are hung up on anaerobics and hiit cause it gives quick results. But without an aerobic strong foundation you will hit a wall quick.

Its not a different type of cardio. The system required for basketball (carbs/anaerobic) can be boosted fairely quickly if you have strong base. Usually 2-4 weeks. The aerobic system however cannot be boosted quickly.

@fzoid4454

 

[RNC555]

Scientific studies have shown that swimming and running are pretty much equal in developing total cardio fitness. Resting heart rates are similar, swimming naturally develops better VO2 max than running because of the breathing patterns.

Yes, and the more swimming you do, the lower your heart rate as well.

The swimmers aren't losing because they lack cardio, with any discipline, you are going to be at a disadvantage to someone who is more highly specialized in that discipline vs yours. You think cycling doesn't have a huge amount of technical specialization? That's complete nonsense.

Like I said, make the swim 8.5K. When none of the cyclists or runner specialist even make it to the second stage, vs just not being in the lead, then I'll talk about how it's about "failed cardio."

It's funny that you claim swimming doesn't require cardio, but THAT's the discipline that has to be shortened to a tiny fraction of the others because the "cardio" athletes can't hack the distance. If it wasn't a cardio challenge, wouldn't they make it longer, not shorter, to make it more of a cardio challenge? What you think passes for logic really doesn't have a foundation. The actual reason is probably much more straightforward - swimming is the shortest because it is the most challenging of the disciplines, and if you hit the wall in the middle of a bike, you can cruise, glide or slow to a crawl, with a run, you can walk, and still make progress, if you hit the wall in the swim, "drown" is a possibility that doesn't exist in the other disciplines.

Swimmers are able to maintain those kind of interval workouts for 3 hours every day. They put in distance that is the land equivalent of 20 to 30 miles, every day, while doing all those interval sets. Your claim that it results in failed cardio is, again, nonsense.

You're also saying that you need one kind of running to develop cardio, then you have to use a different kind of running to develop explosiveness, but, somehow doing an activity that naturally develops a similar level of cardio fitness by already doing intensity interval work is worse/shit? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Swimming is a lot about technique and less about cardio than actual cycling and running.

The swimmer wins a 8.5 km race not due to superior cardio But because of superior technique. The evidence for this is that he loses on the run/bike due to his inferior cardio.

Swimming = technique. There are runners with 30 bpm heart rate that would lose a swimming race to an obese fat fk who swims 3 times a week with resting heart rat of 90bpm. You get my point?

Cycling has way less technique to it than swimming and this is a fact.

A swimmer training for years in running/cycling still loses in the bike/run why?

 

[fzoid4454]

To add to that, for what it's worth, one of the first gyms I worked at offered an extensive Triathlete program based on that one of the guys that owns the bike shop here competes on somewhat of a high level. He builds bikes for Nate Diaz and works with Lance Armstrong and what not.

That guy's triathlete program is full of people from different backgrounds and he told me one day that a big misconception was that swimming was far safer. He says good luck finding a competitive swimming athlete at a high level who isn't severely compromised in their shoulders. They are compromised to the point where they can't even train as they'd like, verses the cyclists who sit there on a computrainer.

I know a lot of people still training and competing in their 70s (and setting national records), and they've been lifelong elite swimmers. Maybe I've just had good luck. But, yes, you will see a different kind of repetitive stress injury than with other sports, but that repetitive movement does not have the impact component to it.

Swimming is a lot about technique and less about cardio than actual cycling and running.

The swimmer wins a 8.5 km race not due to superior cardio But because of superior technique. The evidence for this is that he loses on the run/bike due to his inferior cardio.

Except, no. Why are you claiming that swimming = technique, but biking isn't. And you can't uncouple technique and cardio because poor technique is inefficient and requires greater exertion for the same about of ouput.

I used to do sprint and mid-level triathlons. As you said, I'd crush it in the swimming, and then everyone in the world would blow by me on the bike. My technique was poor, my bike was crappy, all of that. And then, when I got off the bike, I was passing a ton of those bike people on the run, and not getting passed by anyone. So which is it, was their cardio superior because they passed me on the bike? Or was my cardio better because I passed them on the run? How could they have better cardio, and them magically have worse cardio? Or, maybe, in a world that isn't completely dumbed-down, different disciplines use different muscles, and, yes, require different techiques, not just swimming, and have different kinds of fitness beyond cardio-pulmonary fitness.

Swimming = technique. There are runners with 30 bpm heart rate that would lose a swimming race to an obese fat fk who swims 3 times a week with resting heart rat of 90bpm. You get my point?

Cycling has way less technique to it than swimming and this is a fact.

A swimmer training for years in running/cycling still loses in the bike/run why?

Not true. When I was doing triathlons, a grad student who was a former varsity scholarship swimmer and got into biking was winning or placing second in all those races I was in, and, even with a full-time job as a pharamacy manager, went on to be ranked as a professional.

When I was in high school, my sophomore year I went out for the cross country team. I still swam at the time, and a lot of my workouts were running to my buddies house and hanging out instead of putting in the long distance work that the true "runners" were putting in. Just from dabbling, half-assed, I was a consistent point-scorer on our varsity team at meets, and our team was one of the best in the county.

A swimmer might have overall excellent cardio, but their cardio comes through training that requires more muscle than the other disciplines, and that builds a certain amount of "debt" without benefit in the other disciplines. Any muscle that isn't in the legs for a biker is muscle you have to haul up the mountain. Now, if I'm hauling more weight to the top of a mountain, and someone else is hauling less weight up, is it really their "cardio" that is better, or are they doing less work?

If I take the world record marathon runner, and teach him to use the perfect stroke technique, he's going to gas out, badly, swimming. His arms, shoulders, lats, obliques.... even the specific leg muscles and how they are engaged are all going to fail him. His arms will feel like lead. For a swimmer, that's being "tired." Is it because his cardio sucks?

If a swimmer doesn't have the quad development and training to haul ass up a steep hill, is that overall cardio, or is the sport-specific technique and muscle groups coming into play?

A lifelong person in one discipline is going to be less apt in another because their lifelong training has developed specific muscle groups, as well as the techniques, over time, to be optimized.

Lance Armstrong was originally a swimmer. He said that his body composition from swimming held him back a bit until he underwent chemo, lost huge amounts of muscle mass, and came back lighter.

But he went from elite swimmer to elite biker, before he started doping.

But I get it, you are too much of a spaz to swim without getting completely gassed in almost no time, so you claim it's "all technique" and no cardio.

As I said, you are offering very simplistic, dumbed down explanations. The cause/effect you are claiming really isn't an accurate explanation of what is going on.

 

[RNC555]

I know a lot of people still training and competing in their 70s (and setting national records), and they've been lifelong elite swimmers. Maybe I've just had good luck. But, yes, you will see a different kind of repetitive stress injury than with other sports, but that repetitive movement does not have the impact component to it.


Except, no. Why are you claiming that swimming = technique, but biking isn't. And you can't uncouple technique and cardio because poor technique is inefficient and requires greater exertion for the same about of ouput.

I used to do sprint and mid-level triathlons. As you said, I'd crush it in the swimming, and then everyone in the world would blow by me on the bike. My technique was poor, my bike was crappy, all of that. And then, when I got off the bike, I was passing a ton of those bike people on the run, and not getting passed by anyone. So which is it, was their cardio superior because they passed me on the bike? Or was my cardio better because I passed them on the run? How could they have better cardio, and them magically have worse cardio? Or, maybe, in a world that isn't completely dumbed-down, different disciplines use different muscles, and, yes, require different techiques, not just swimming, and have different kinds of fitness beyond cardio-pulmonary fitness.



Not true. When I was doing triathlons, a grad student who was a former varsity scholarship swimmer and got into biking was winning or placing second in all those races I was in, and, even with a full-time job as a pharamacy manager, went on to be ranked as a professional.

When I was in high school, my sophomore year I went out for the cross country team. I still swam at the time, and a lot of my workouts were running to my buddies house and hanging out instead of putting in the long distance work that the true "runners" were putting in. Just from dabbling, half-assed, I was a consistent point-scorer on our varsity team at meets, and our team was one of the best in the county.

A swimmer might have overall excellent cardio, but their cardio comes through training that requires more muscle than the other disciplines, and that builds a certain amount of "debt" without benefit. Any muscle that isn't in the legs for a biker is muscle you have to haul up the mountain. Now, if I'm hauling more weight to the top of a mountain, and someone else is hauling less weight up, is it really their "cardio" that is better, or are they doing less work?

Lance Armstrong was originally a swimmer. He said that his body composition from swimming held him back a bit until he underwent chemo, lost huge amounts of muscle mass, and came back lighter.

But he went from elite swimmer to elite biker, before he started doping.

But I get it, you are too much of a spaz to swim without getting completely gassed in almost no time, so you claim it's "all technique" and no cardio.

All i hear is personal and individualized experiences. Im talking about general rule of thumb. Ex swimmers make the weakest triathletes. Fastest swimmers dont usually win triathlons. Races are usually won by Bikers/runners.

Biking requires way less technique than swimming bro. Wtf are you arguing about? Get the right bike fit and youre set, start pedaling.

Swimming requires technique which is why a fat fk person can win a swimming race vs a great endurance runner or a cyclist who has bad swim form.

Im a great swimmer actually and i swim around 8-12k a week regularly.