Karate to MMA eg....

WNYguy said:
IMHO Karate and other eastern style striking arts are the future of MMA standup for sure. Look at Cung, Machida, GSP as examples of what's to come. Its slowly starting to emerge, but in 10 years the best strikers will have a form of Karate as their base.
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Well said my friend.
 
oops double...

btw, having crappy karate guys is an unfair representation... it's like having someone like butterbean representing boxing opposed to floyd or cintron and saying, "boxing sucks as a standup art!"

no real shotokan karate guys who won any notable championships such as Pan ams or WKF has ever fought in the UFC besides Lyoto
 
BJJK1 said:
i don't know why people set limited belief when it comes to mma. Point Karate will never work!!! while Lyoto Machida is still undefeated. side kicks and fancy kicks will never work, yet cung le is 6-0 in mma, and just broke Frank Shamrock's arm last night. maybe it makes them feel better about themselves by claiming everything other than _____ or ______ is useless?
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i agree 100%

why does everyone think karate is all fancy like the crane, spinning kicks and chops? traditional karate is far from that... jabs, reverse punches (crosses that machida's catching everyone with), roundhouse kicks are all karate techniques... if they watched some real karate competitions at high levels they'd see how ignorant they're being...

Muay thai is good and you'll become more efficient quicker, but they have their limits w/their footwork, distancing etc... they brawl and are rough and make you tough so that's why everyone jumps on muay thais nuts... karate from a good school teaches good distance, technique, speed and timing and that's making the difference for Lyoto in the standup department... kyokushin karate is more like muay thai however opposed to shito or shotokan karate

btw, there hasn't been a world class shotokan karate fighter in the UFC besides Lyoto, he's placed 1st in pan ams, no1 else before him has won pan ams or wkf worlds....
 
Brazilian HKD...

A good summary of the evolution of not just MMA but of style bashing on the boards! That is pretty much how it went down. I don't think it is surprising that so many of the top guys today have a base in some TMA.

Guys like GSP, A. Silva, and even Machida are obviously HEAVILY cross-trained in BJJ, wrestling, and boxing/MT. That cannot be argued. Yet the fact remains they are some of the top guys despite a whole field of guys with a more 'traditional' MMA background.

Obviously some of it comes down to training like a fighter. This is not the case with most martial artists. They are 2 to 3 time a week hobbyist. There is a guy I work out with regularly who trains at Team Quest twice a week. He is a self-professed submission wrestler (not an MMA guy). He isn't training the life of a fighter...but as a hobbyist. But of course the techniques he learns are all still applicable.

Similarly I train TKD and Sambo...but I'd have to dramatically vary my training regimen if I were training like a fighter who was going to enter a match. I train it like a hobbyist to stay in shape. Yet the techniques are all still applicable.
 
Shotokan Karate has some elite fighters in the WKF. Yes, the rules of 'sport karate' won't allow full blown contact to the head, and you get points for using speed, control, and power. However, some of the best WKF fighters in the world (Raphael Aghayev, George Kotaka) could absolutely succeed in MMA if they concentrated on that style of fighting. When I say succeed, I'm not talking about getting to the UFC anytime soon, but they already have a great foundation which enables them to close the distance with excellent timing and footwork (Machida), and their striking is already there, (Cross training with boxing/Muay thai will only take them to another level .) Ultimately it would come down to becoming more familiar with the ground game, takedown defense, and just gaining the experience of competing in a full contact enviroment. As far as takedowns and sweeps, Raphael Aghayev has some of the best judo throws/takedowns that you'll see. Karate gets a bad rap because of the traditional art (kata, horse stances, rising blocks, downwards blocks),but the top level athletes are no joke......
 
likeke34 said:
i agree 100%

why does everyone think karate is all fancy like the crane, spinning kicks and chops? traditional karate is far from that... jabs, reverse punches (crosses that machida's catching everyone with), roundhouse kicks are all karate techniques... if they watched some real karate competitions at high levels they'd see how ignorant they're being...

Muay thai is good and you'll become more efficient quicker, but they have their limits w/their footwork, distancing etc... they brawl and are rough and make you tough so that's why everyone jumps on muay thais nuts... karate from a good school teaches good distance, technique, speed and timing and that's making the difference for Lyoto in the standup department... kyokushin karate is more like muay thai however opposed to shito or shotokan karate

btw, there hasn't been a world class shotokan karate fighter in the UFC besides Lyoto, he's placed 1st in pan ams, no1 else before him has won pan ams or wkf worlds....
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you know nothing about muay thai.
 
I know of a school in my city that I have gone and trained at before and they cover all sorts of shit. They do more tma but also do clinch work, knees and elbows, judo, jj. Its all about the school.
 
some of the guys in that vid looked skilled others looked like rockem sockem robots IMHO
I think a few Judo classes would benifit that style of fighter well
 
It's awsome, check out the video at the bottom:

Daido Juku Karate for self defense

I personally do Karate, and I can see how most people that have done MMA or Muay Thai, that sparr with me, are very suprised by many of the attacks I do. Today Everyone In MMA does Muay Thai, so everybody knows the same attacks, Karate is nice to get your opponent by suprise with things like hook-kicks and spinning-back-kicks
 
Main thing i notice about anyone who's trained a lot of karate. they are hella fast.
 
50inches said:
It's awsome, check out the video at the bottom:

Daido Juku Karate for self defense

I personally do Karate, and I can see how most people that have done MMA or Muay Thai, that sparr with me, are very suprised by many of the attacks I do. Today Everyone In MMA does Muay Thai, so everybody knows the same attacks, Karate is nice to get your opponent by suprise with things like hook-kicks and spinning-back-kicks
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dude KK was founded in the 1960's by Mas oyama. Daido juku is an offshot of that. It was "created" by Azuma in 1980; how the fuck is it a TMA? Muay thai isn't a tma but Daido Juku is? Gracie jiu jitsu isn't a tma but Daido juku is? Let's face it. Daido juko is a modern martial art.
 
nefti said:
dude KK was founded in the 1960's by Mas oyama. Daido juku is an offshot of that. It was "created" by Azuma in 1980; how the fuck is it a TMA? Muay thai isn't a tma but Daido Juku is? Gracie jiu jitsu isn't a tma but Daido juku is? Let's face it. Daido juko is a modern martial art.
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you know nothing about Kyokushin, or any of it's branches
 
why did mas oyama name his karate KK? What does kyokushin mean? What was the major difference between mas oyama's karate and most of the other karate styles?
 
WNYguy said:
IMHO Karate and other eastern style striking arts are the future of MMA standup for sure. Look at Cung, Machida, GSP as examples of what's to come. Its slowly starting to emerge, but in 10 years the best strikers will have a form of Karate as their base.
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FInally someone who gets it!
 
let's face it The big mountain of the korean people realized that a striking art needs intense sparring to be more effective and that is one of the major differences between his karate and the karate of his time.
 
wearing a japanese uniform doesn't make you tma. It's the use of live sparring and training methods that makes a style "tma" or not. in most people's minds. Heck BJJ is tma also. :p
 
Originally Posted by WNYguy
IMHO Karate and other eastern style striking arts are the future of MMA standup for sure. Look at Cung, Machida, GSP as examples of what's to come. Its slowly starting to emerge, but in 10 years the best strikers will have a form of Karate as their base.
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why do you ignore muay thai? is it not "eastern"?
 
Brazilian HKD said:
Ah..the good times, near 7 years ago... me, sanshou, ko kid, evil eye gouger, kyrillo and tim trying to argue the nuthugger how TMA had somethign to give in the mma world

i remeber some quotes from the sherdoggers

"tma= worthless" "tma will never work" "i can kick every tma fighter"

well, most of these guys are banned now...

trying to put mma in a box or formula it's just stupid; mma still has a lot to evolve

when most of the american spectators saw vale tudo in the 90's they didn't knew that tma has a strong influence in vale tudo here

that's why chute boxe has tkd influence, pele states how capoeira give him flexibility, and a karateca is kicking ass in the ufc

Old posters, do you remember?


in the 90's "oh kicking and punching it's worthless, this gracie guy showed us everything that we need to know"

then came ruas "ok...maybe some leg kicks are useful too"

then the formula became MT and BJJ "hey it's the best of stand up and the best of the ground, we don't need anything else..."

But against fighters with the "perfect formula" some wrestlers just kicked ass Kerr/couture and others

then the formula became bjj, mt, wrestling (and the funny thing, the mt guys were actually brazilians with a strong influence of tkd, or europeans with a strong influence in KK)

but suddenly a chubby russian demolished everyone with sambo/judo, an armenian tossed up people like ragdolls with judo, a karateca is undefeated in the ufc, a sanda ("that useless mt rip off!") guy is a champ, a grapler uses a wakigatami to break his oponent arm ( standing subs don't work!)...

people act like suddlent tma works, it always worked with good instructions according to it's goals, going to mma was just a time of adaptating

See this footage from 8 years ago---does somebody still think that the side kick is good just because of cung le?

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw2k673Y8mc

it's not style vs style, it's fighter vs fighter

the funny thing it's that we already have mma conservatives

if bjj fighters take wrestling techniques (like the twister) ; they are avolving they can even do a instructinal video about it and say it's bjj (and i think it's ok)

if a tma gets some groundwork ; they are ripping off

and even if a guy ith tma background wins, he won because of bjj even if he won by KO
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Good points. What's the lesson to be learned in all of this?


Don't limit yourself!


Train in Martial Arts and don't be so close-minded. Don't focus on styles focus on being a Multi-Dimensional fighter who uses techniques that suit you.

As Bruce Lee said:

"The best fighter is not a Boxer, Karate or Judo man. The best fighter is someone who can adapt on any style. He kicks too good for a Boxer, throws too good for a Karate man, and punches too good for a Judo man."
 
nefti said:
why do you ignore muay thai? is it not "eastern"?
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Northeastern. :D

But seriously though. I like the unique and dynamic fighters. You don't have to have a TMA background to be exciting you just have to be creative.
 
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