kagato jime=gogoplata??????????

[Delbjj]

I don't think the judo way of doing it is same as the BJJ way of doing it. Totally different details in each of them. In the gogoplata, I feel the overhook is key to getting enough control. You also should have your arms wrapped around the head, grabbing your own foot. then pulling down as your push up with your leg to initiate the choke. I also always do the move from my hip shrimped out a little. In the kagato jime shown, they just hold the gi and press up with with foot. They are all flat on their butts. I don't feel this is as effective. It could work, but I don't like it as much.

I agree, to an extenet.

Us Judo, Euro Judo, Russian, Korean, Japanese all have discicnt styles, not even counting the differences between schools.

There are pics floating around of the exact move done in Judo from the 30's. Grappling has been around for along time, way before Eddie Bravo and Weed.......

 

[yodaman]

There are pics floating around of the exact move done in Judo from the 30's. Grappling has been around for along time, way before Eddie Bravo and Weed.......

Bravo claimed he stole the move from Nino Sca...something. Which doesn't surprise me, since I've seen a Gi variation in Royler's submission book of all things.

Whoever took the picture though was sloppy.

 

[Delbjj]

Nino Schembri.... Elvis

I fall into crazy subs all the time, that I have never seen on a video or in a book.

I think that there is zero chance that invented anything, or am doing something that has not been done before.

 

[Fedor#1]

I seen a video of Mifune doing that move from a video from the 30's

 

[U.S. Soldier]

remember, the Japanese invented all of that

 

[Nickynoneck]

here's an article my buddy did for total mma about the gogoplata and judo


Total MMA Blog Archive Getting to know the gogoplata

 

[kenban judan]

if you notice the differences already stated above, it all comes down to the gi. so, this might be total crazy-talk here, but i would go out on a limb and claim that the gogplata is a nogi version kagato jime!

anyways, the only time i can't hit a gogoplata is 'cause i've been too slow in setting it up and the whole thing gets entirely telegrahped.

i wonder if i go the kagato jime gi route, using the way it's done in the pic Ryo posted, if i would be able to surprise and catch an opponent easier with it?

 

[judofarmerbob]

i asked a black belt at my school who referees whether or not he'd kick me out of a tournament for pulling gogo, and he said he would because he thought it looked like it was attacking the windpipe. he also said that just because a move isn't mainstream doesn't mean it's a good move, and that if it looks like something somebody might not recognize or understand, I shouldn't do it in a tournament.

I thought this was pretty much the worst advice I've ever gotten. I don't think I should have to make concessions and alterations in my ground game because some dumb-ass referee lacks proficiency and technical knowledge.

I also pull on the back of the head for triangles, which apparently some people still think is legal. Idiots.

Gogo FTW

 

[Nickynoneck]

i asked a black belt at my school who referees whether or not he'd kick me out of a tournament for pulling gogo, and he said he would because he thought it looked like it was attacking the windpipe. he also said that just because a move isn't mainstream doesn't mean it's a good move, and that if it looks like something somebody might not recognize or understand, I shouldn't do it in a tournament.

I thought this was pretty much the worst advice I've ever gotten. I don't think I should have to make concessions and alterations in my ground game because some dumb-ass referee lacks proficiency and technical knowledge.

I also pull on the back of the head for triangles, which apparently some people still think is legal. Idiots.

Gogo FTW

I had a judo black belt referee come to my club once to teach a class , he asked us what we wanted to learn i spoke up ( i was a yellow belt at the time) " can we do sweeps from the guard ?" and he had no clue what i was talking about ...some old school judoka have no clue or are afriad of the ground.

may not be anything to do with what you are talkinga bout but i had a funny bb story .

 

[NinjaKilla187]

i asked a black belt at my school who referees whether or not he'd kick me out of a tournament for pulling gogo, and he said he would because he thought it looked like it was attacking the windpipe. he also said that just because a move isn't mainstream doesn't mean it's a good move, and that if it looks like something somebody might not recognize or understand, I shouldn't do it in a tournament.

I thought this was pretty much the worst advice I've ever gotten. I don't think I should have to make concessions and alterations in my ground game because some dumb-ass referee lacks proficiency and technical knowledge.

I also pull on the back of the head for triangles, which apparently some people still think is legal. Idiots.

Gogo FTW

Its good advice...he's trying to keep you from getting DQ'd. I think he's saying if something looks like it might be a questionable technique, in part due to its lack of common use, its more likely to pull a DQ in Shia than is a more conventional technique.

Unless you plan on arguing with every ref that DQs you for it, and we all know how far that will go at Judo tourneys...

 

[YeahBee]

from Nicky's link

 

[judofarmerbob]

that's ridiculous though, and a dichotomy that shouldn't exist. if i do a legal technique and somebody officiating doesn't know what it is, they have no business refereeing. period.

Its good advice...he's trying to keep you from getting DQ'd. I think he's saying if something looks like it might be a questionable technique, in part due to its lack of common use, its more likely to pull a DQ in Shia than is a more conventional technique.

Unless you plan on arguing with every ref that DQs you for it, and we all know how far that will go at Judo tourneys...

 

[Darth Shlong]

I love going through old Judo books and clips and finding the latest technique to have "evolved" from the art. People don't realize that Jiujitsu is going more backwards than it is forwards. Stuff like this is why I have to shut up when Judokas make fun of BJJ because they are right but this is right before they turtle up.

I kid because I care.

 

[nightshroud]

yep both are shin choke tho the kagato is gi and gogoplatas are no gi (maybe even in BJJ gi its gogoplata)

 

[pittfrog]

I had a judo black belt referee come to my club once to teach a class , he asked us what we wanted to learn i spoke up ( i was a yellow belt at the time) " can we do sweeps from the guard ?" and he had no clue what i was talking about ...some old school judoka have no clue or are afriad of the ground.

may not be anything to do with what you are talkinga bout but i had a funny bb story .

Judo is different. Judo guys don't sweep from the guard much, mostly because you don't get the time on the ground before the ref stands you up. Also, I think it's disrespectful, and in lots of cases not true, to call judoka afraid of the ground. Sport Judo groundwork is different than BJJ, because the rules are different from those of BJJ. Guard, for most Judo players is just a way to hold your opponent until mate is called.

Personally, I think both sports, BJJ and Judo, would benefit from rules changes that would eliminate non-combative behavior. For Judo, I wish more time would be allowed for groundwork, and that turtling and going belly down to stall would be penalized. For Jiu jitsu, I wish that throws and takedowns were worth more points so that better throwing would be encouraged. (And yes, I'm beating a very dead horse here).

 

[YeahBee]

Why would turtling be penalized? Isn't giving up your back penalty enough?

The refs shouldn't let anybody up who is trying to work thou

jsut sitting in guard yes stand up

 

[Nickynoneck]

I love going through old Judo books and clips and finding the latest technique to have "evolved" from the art. People don't realize that Jiujitsu is going more backwards than it is forwards. Stuff like this is why I have to shut up when Judokas make fun of BJJ because they are right but this is right before they turtle up.

I kid because I care.

that was funny being a judo guy and recently starting bjj i can laugh with whole hearted show in your statement .

Really bjj is pre 40's style judo its brilliant and wish judo's rule set wasent the way it is i wonder how things would have been different if judo's rules were never changed ??

 

[Nickynoneck]

You gusy should check out my post getting to know the gogoplata for the history of it .

 

[Nickynoneck]

Judo is different. Judo guys don't sweep from the guard much, mostly because you don't get the time on the ground before the ref stands you up. Also, I think it's disrespectful, and in lots of cases not true, to call judoka afraid of the ground. Sport Judo groundwork is different than BJJ, because the rules are different from those of BJJ. Guard, for most Judo players is just a way to hold your opponent until mate is called.

Personally, I think both sports, BJJ and Judo, would benefit from rules changes that would eliminate non-combative behavior. For Judo, I wish more time would be allowed for groundwork, and that turtling and going belly down to stall would be penalized. For Jiu jitsu, I wish that throws and takedowns were worth more points so that better throwing would be encouraged. (And yes, I'm beating a very dead horse here).

you are but i agree.

 

[NinjaKilla187]

Personally, I think both sports, BJJ and Judo, would benefit from rules changes that would eliminate non-combative behavior. For Judo, I wish more time would be allowed for groundwork, and that turtling and going belly down to stall would be penalized. For Jiu jitsu, I wish that throws and takedowns were worth more points so that better throwing would be encouraged. (And yes, I'm beating a very dead horse here).

+1

With penalties for pulling guard and DQ for buttscooting...