Economy Justin Trudeau announces 'crack-down' on Airbnbs

[Bballfan123]

you canadians are so goddamned stupid its hilarious

hey retards, just go build more houses! its not hard! chop down some FUCKING trees and do it! don't you guys have like 80 billion TONS of mineral ore, and 20 BILLION trees? WTF are you doing? stop being a bunch of snipped off dorks and throw that clown out. jiminey crickets its embarrassing even being neighbors with you people any more.

 

[The Big Yin]

I'm sure "cracking down" on a business model will solve all the discontent that you created in your country Castro Jnr.

 

[Kassitus]

The problem with landlords is inherent to landlords and not specific to large ones. If your BIL owns three houses in a well off area he is a wealthy landlord and I seriously do not want to hear that type of person claim "woe is me"

Idk want to derail the thread because addressing the very dumb progressive idea that cracking down on short term rentals(STRs) will fix the housing crisis is very important but if you're interested look into Georgism and specifically this article which summarizes the position. If you want an even shorter summary of the problem with landlords there's this satirical billboard from the early 20th century that succinctly makes the point

Spoiler

As for this cockamamie idea that the problem is because we have too many STRs, I wholly reject this. The issue in Canada is NIMBYism and specifically their terrible idea of Vancouverism whereby the only type of multifamily housing allowed are towering skyscrapers concentrated in the city center and the rest of the city's residential land is locked up in single family homes by NIMBYs who refuse to allow more housing to be built. Crack down on them by forcing these neighborhoods to allow more dense, affordable housing instead of governing the country in the interest of Boomer homeowners.

We actually build the towering skyscraper condos everywhere. For example the suburb Mississauga has had a sky full of construction cranes and half built condos for as long as I can remember. At the very least 15 years. It's also a gridlocked dilapidated traffic hell full of potholes because the infrastructure can't keep up. This was not true 20 years ago, it was a fairly beautiful place then. Its far from the only suburb like this too. The issue is that as much as the federal government wants maximum population growth driven by infinity Indians to be an economically viable idea it simply is not. Trudeau himself recently admitted this is the problem. He shifted the blame to the degree mill colleges, but he still admitted it and stated clearly that temporarily stopping population growth is the solution.

 

[Kassitus]

you canadians are so goddamned stupid its hilarious

hey retards, just go build more houses! its not hard! chop down some FUCKING trees and do it! don't you guys have like 80 billion TONS of mineral ore, and 20 BILLION trees? WTF are you doing? stop being a bunch of snipped off dorks and throw that clown out. jiminey crickets its embarrassing even being neighbors with you people any more.

Housing prices in America have gone up 40% in the last few years if I remember right. You guys are walking into the same trap we walked into. Consider it a blessing it's happening this slowly and you have a chance to right your course.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- I dont get how Trudie never got beat. Yeah. cucking Trump got him some points on the bro-scale. But not enought to get out with so much BS.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Agree with Turdo here. Short term rentals is harming housing supply in a time where housing shortage is driving prices insane.

The bigger issue is red tape restricting building new housing. But this is a quick and easy fix to free up some housing for ownership or actual live in renting

Ban stand alone Airbnb/vrbo (unless renting out a part of your own house). Vacationing should be hotels and resorts, not taking up space where someone can actually live.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Idk that I'll ever buy into a "woe is the landlord" narrative and I've been pretty convinced that landlords in general are a problem but the idea that AirBnBs are responsible for the housing crisis and that the solution is to crackdown on them represents a far more harmful, anti-market narrative pushed by progressives who want to do anything to fix the housing crisis except the one thing that actually works which is to allow developers to build more housing.

Or we can just make it easier for the market to supply more housing instead of trying to take it from those who already have their own.

Or we accept a society where GDP growth through population growth is not the state religion?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

You're both wrong, its not because of STRs or immigrants but because of NIMBYs.

Left wing populists want to ban landlords and right wing populists want to ban immigrants but neither of those solutions addresses the core problem of lack of housing supply due to onerous regulations.

Interesting way of turning a demand issue into a supply one.

 

[Madmick]

Do you think it's a good thing if an individual owns three or four houses and uses them for short-term rental?

Unreal.

"Propery is theft", eh, comrade? It's been astonishing to see the mask come off the liberals on Sherdog in recent years. My favorite part is how they howl indignantly whenever they are branded with the scarlet letter "socialist", and yet inevitably a thread like this manifests, and they jump in with a post like this defending the State when it moves to usurp the right of property owners to manage their own properties.

Yes, I think it's a good thing for an individual to have the right to do with his property whatever he fucking pleases. Because it's unlikely those properties would exist at all if it wasn't for enterprising individuals building and buying them. Just because they exist doesn't entitle the state or poor people the right to access them. They already leech these properties by virtue of their existence with taxes.

 

[Bballfan123]

Housing prices in America have gone up 40% in the last few years if I remember right. You guys are walking into the same trap we walked into. Consider it a blessing it's happening this slowly and you have a chance to right your course.

We need to do the same thing. Unfortunately, we are all very very stupid and wont do it. LOL

 

[rikibobby]

Airbnb's are common in Northern Ontario and are the only way a lot of people can afford vacation properties due to insane inflation. The Canadian dream in Northern Ontario has always been to live where the work is, but then have a "camp" on water somewhere. We'll very few can afford 2 places nowadays, so airbnb'ing the camp when you aren't there helps pay the bills and enable to owner to enjoy it also.

 

[Sakuraba'sEar]

The housing problem which is afflicting every major western country, has a lot to do with the job market and infrastructure also.

I'm not saying I know what the answer is, but this seems silly and it avoids addressing core issues

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Airbnbs are a cancer. They turn into nothing but party houses and areas to run drugs, guns and human trafficking.

This is simply not true.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

I own Airbnbs in America, travel frequently and spend 3 months per year in airbnbs.

I love them, it is a great idea.

Sure, once in a while you rent a dud. I once had to stay on a shared property with the landlord who yelled at me for starting a fire in the fire pit. But most of the time, they are great.

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

I own Airbnbs in America, travel frequently and spend 3 months per year in airbnbs.

I love them, it is a great idea.

Sure, once in a while you rent a dud. I once had to stay on a shared property with the landlord who yelled at me for starting a fire in the fire pit. But most of the time, they are great.

Interesting, I'm the opposite and gave up on airbnbs ages ago. They've got too many bullshit fees and bullshit rules, I don't want a list of jobs to do before leaving my accommodation when on holiday and then be charged a cleaning fee anyway. When Im able ro I'll just stay in a hotel where they treat you well and you can just hand in your key and walk out at the end

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Interesting, I'm the opposite and gave up on airbnbs ages ago. They've got too many bullshit fees and bullshit rules, I don't want a list of jobs to do before leaving my accommodation when on holiday and then be charged a cleaning fee anyway. When Im able ro I'll just stay in a hotel where they treat you well and you can just hand in your key and walk out at the end

Agree 1000% If you are a single guy or married, get a hotel for a weekend or week long stay.

I have a sweet job and travel with my family, including kids, about 3 months a year. For that, I need a yard and a whole house. I don't want to be crammed in a room.

So I read the stupid rules twice, gripe, and follow them. Have stayed at some pretty great places.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Or we accept a society where GDP growth through population growth is not the state religion?

If you want to accept poverty and stagnation instead of building more houses and allowing immigration then that's your choice.

Interesting way of turning a demand issue into a supply one.

Its the other way around, Canada has a supply problem that anti-immigrant populists want to pretend is a demand problem to advance their pet issue.

Unreal.

"Propery is theft", eh, comrade? It's been astonishing to see the mask come off the liberals on Sherdog in recent years. My favorite part is how they howl indignantly whenever they are branded with the scarlet letter "socialist", and yet inevitably a thread like this manifests, and they jump in with a post like this defending the State when it moves to usurp the right of property owners to manage their own properties.

Yes, I think it's a good thing for an individual to have the right to do with his property whatever he fucking pleases. Because it's unlikely those properties would exist at all if it wasn't for enterprising individuals building and buying them. Just because they exist doesn't entitle the state or poor people the right to access them. They already leech these properties by virtue of their existence with taxes.

I agree that property owners should have the right to do with their property what they want and that they don't is a big issue in North America and the root of the housing crisis. Too often there is much red tape in the way of not only building new multifamily units from the ground up but renovating existing single family units into multifamily ones. The real impediment in practice here aren't really socialists as much as it is NIMBYs who can be either right or left leaning though in fairness if you look at certain red states like TX and NC they are doing a fantastic job of generating lots of new housing while blues states like CA lag behind. Even if there are lots of red NIMBYs in places like TX and NC clearly the balance of political power is stacked against them more than it is in blue states where under the pretense of seemingly legitimate concerns like environmental impact or disability access NIMBYs can strangle projects with delays.

That said I don't think its fair to say the state leeches off of properties, the only way those property rights can exist is with a state enforced legal system that acknowledges the claim and the only way they have value in practice in the 21st century is with city services. If anything many property owners "leech" off the city as property taxes are often not enough to cover the costs of many suburban areas which end up being subsidized by the tax revenue of the more dense urban core but even then I don't think its helpful to frame it that way as much as we should be thinking about how to may city budgets sustainable at the same time that they can sufficiently provide city services and address the housing crisis.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Agree with Turdo here. Short term rentals is harming housing supply in a time where housing shortage is driving prices insane.

The bigger issue is red tape restricting building new housing. But this is a quick and easy fix to free up some housing for ownership or actual live in renting

Ban stand alone Airbnb/vrbo (unless renting out a part of your own house). Vacationing should be hotels and resorts, not taking up space where someone can actually live.

Hard disagree. Its not that the people against STRs are trying a multifaceted approach to solving the housing crisis, they want to scapegoat STRs instead of addressing the real problem which is lack of supply due to red tape. Boomer homeowners will support the banning of STRs and multifamily units. The people who tend to really want to address the core problem tend to be in support of STRs or at least much less interested in regulating them.

Not saying there isn't some optimum set of housing policy that might include some restrictions on STRs but in practice what we have are generally two large coalitions competing against one another, the NIMBYs who are antimarket and want to limit development as much as possible and the YIMBYs who actually want to solve the housing crisis by making it easier to generate more supply. The banning of STRs is part of the NIMBY package of policies that historically created and exacerbated the housing crisis.

Do you have more money than him? Then you're a bad guy.

You didn't work for that.

You got lucky.

Everything he got, he worked for it.

Then the second he gets enough money to buy a second property, he'll change his tune.

I know a million guys like that.

Yeah but it punishes you for doing better than him, which is the core of that ideology.

What part of what I'm arguing here do you disagree with? Are you in favor of land speculation?

We actually build the towering skyscraper condos everywhere. For example the suburb Mississauga has had a sky full of construction cranes and half built condos for as long as I can remember. At the very least 15 years. It's also a gridlocked dilapidated traffic hell full of potholes because the infrastructure can't keep up. This was not true 20 years ago, it was a fairly beautiful place then. Its far from the only suburb like this too. The issue is that as much as the federal government wants maximum population growth driven by infinity Indians to be an economically viable idea it simply is not. Trudeau himself recently admitted this is the problem. He shifted the blame to the degree mill colleges, but he still admitted it and stated clearly that temporarily stopping population growth is the solution.

In Toronto over 50% of all the residential land is zoned exclusively for detached single family homes and in Vancouver is over 60%, that's locking most of the residential land into low density units that can't provide enough to supply to meet demand.

Not saying everyone has to live in a skyscraper, in fact quite the opposite as my point is we need more medium density housing like the units picture below. Cities should be a gradient of density and not divided into either detached single family houses or skyscrapers.

 

[panamaican]

What does he mean by "crack down" as if some crime is being committed? Wild to think dude would come after people trying to make extra income for themselves.

Depending on the municipality, most places require you to get a renter's license before you can rent out a premises to the public.

It also tends to have an impact on tax liabilities. If landlords and hotels are paying business taxes for renting out a premises then AirBnb landlords should probably be doing the same.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

If you want to accept poverty and stagnation instead of building more houses and allowing immigration then that's your choice.

Its the other way around, Canada has a supply problem that anti-immigrant populists want to pretend is a demand problem to advance their pet issue.

I agree that property owners should have the right to do with their property what they want and that they don't is a big issue in North America and the root of the housing crisis. Too often there is much red tape in the way of not only building new multifamily units from the ground up but renovating existing single family units into multifamily ones. The real impediment in practice here aren't really socialists as much as it is NIMBYs who can be either right or left leaning though in fairness if you look at certain red states like TX and NC they are doing a fantastic job of generating lots of new housing while blues states like CA lag behind. Even if there are lots of red NIMBYs in places like TX and NC clearly the balance of political power is stacked against them more than it is in blue states where under the pretense of seemingly legitimate concerns like environmental impact or disability access NIMBYs can strangle projects with delays.

That said I don't think its fair to say the state leeches off of properties, the only way those property rights can exist is with a state enforced legal system that acknowledges the claim and the only way they have value in practice in the 21st century is with city services. If anything many property owners "leech" off the city as property taxes are often not enough to cover the costs of many suburban areas which end up being subsidized by the tax revenue of the more dense urban core but even then I don't think its helpful to frame it that way as much as we should be thinking about how to may city budgets sustainable at the same time that they can sufficiently provide city services and address the housing crisis.

But you just made 3 assumptions here that I would like to revisit:
- no immigration means poverty
- no immigration means stagnation
- it started with a supply problem

I disagree strongly with these 3 assumptions which are based on neoliberal playbook platitudes. I know you have 2 generations of classbooks to back your view so I won‘t die on that hill. But I am very pleased that we are questioning this horseshit again, thanks to „populists“.