Justin Gaethje's wrestling ability - Khabib untested?

[GSP Rush]

Justins wrestling may be great, we really have no idea since he never uses it. I don't think it's even close to on the same level as khabibs. I dont think he trains wrestling like he probably did when he was actually doing it. I don't see him stopping the td, and we know what happens when khabib gets his opponent on the ground. Justins tank is kinda suspect as well, and it ould be way worse using all the energy he would have to in order to defend against khabibs takedowns. I would love Justin vs conor, would be a great fight for fans. I honestly don't thiink anyone at 55 can beat khabib except khabib. As long as he stays focused and uses his best skills instead of testing his striking too much, he's a hard guy to crack. Justin has NCAA wrestling, which khabib trains with guys all the time that are better than Justin at and are bigger than Justin. Short of some flying knee miricle, khabib wins this fight the same way he wins all his fights. Justin gasses after 2 and succumbs in the 3rd.

This has come to mind for me too (the training side of it) however is it not something you would like to see? I'm sure if a fight was booked Gaethje would be back into that and it's like anything, he doesn;t lose the skill or natural skill he had he just doesn't use it. I guess it's debatable if as fans we'd like to see it more as personally I love the way Gaethje fights right now but if he was to fight Khabib, he'd have to use this side of him, he wouldn't have a choice. The TD defence I personally do see him stopping, or causing problems at least.

I don't think Khabib wouldn't get him down, I just don't think it would be as easy and this is where Khabib wins fights. Once he's got his opponent down that's pretty much it, it's not long until they're looking tired and fatigued and it's pretty much a guarantee that at some point in the fight (usually early on) he's going to get these fighters down and it's not long until they start looking fatigued.

Gaethje is just an example (although a good one I feel) but in regards to this, it's something I feel Khabib needs testing with a little more as opposed to the opponents he's had, he's never booked these kind of fights.

 

[mkt]

Gaethje was a solid Div 1 guy but rarely uses his wrestling and gets taken down by guys like Poirier. Like all skills, wrestling is largely use-it-or-lose-it, so I wouldn't just assume he can shut down Khabib. Which fighter has worked more on developing and applying their grappling chops over the last 5 years? Khabib by a mile. That's just as important (maybe more important) than credentials they earned long ago.

 

[blaseblah]

How do you know? He hasn't faced them all, he's pretty much untested in this regard with a lot of the fighters. Askren would obviously have to change weight but it would be a challenge Khabib hasn't faced yet.

Askren himself has said he can't make 155. Khabib shouldn't have to go up in weight and face larger opponents. It is unfortunate that all the lightweight wrestlers left the division or went out of prime by the time Khabib made his way to the title picture. Gillespie is really the only one available but there is no hype behind him.

 

[Lawrence]

Before we get into this please know this is purely from a conversational perspective, there is no doubt Khabib is one of the greatest and deserves all the acclaim for his work however part of me feels as though he's a little untested in certain departments.

Please also kindly read before adding your reply as this is quite important you take this on board first.

A lot of people talk about potential opponents for Khabib such as Tony, Dustin etc.. which is fine, they're great fights and challenges with opponents who have earned their shot that are capable if they deliver however part of me feels these opponents Khabib is facing we're kinda going to get a similar more predictable outcome the same way we did with Conor with these kind of fighters (I'm not comparing those fighters to Conor though I'm sure you get what I mean).

As many of you probably know Justin Gaethje is a highly elite levelled wrestler he just chooses not to use simply because he feels it's not what the fans want however if he was to be put into a fight with Khabib I think he would cause problems simply because I'm not sure Khabib has faced anyone with that amount of wrestling skill and ability. I mean, when Khabib is fighting someone like Conor, Dustin etc. it's only a matter of time in those rounds he gets them to the ground, if they don't KO him pretty early on they're likely to get mauled the same way other similar fighters have as their TD defence isn't as strong as someone such as Gaethje for example which is where Khabib needs to be challenged.

It doesn't even have to be specifically Gaethje, take Askren for example, his take down defence is going to be unreal and I doubt Khabib would get Askren down easily like he does with fighters he's faced in the past (which again is only a matter of time in the 3 or 5 rounds where he gets them down and wears them out).

I suppose to some degree Gregor Gillespie could fit into this, although I do feel he would probably out wrestle Gillespie it could be a different fight we wouldn't expect.

However what do you guys think? Would you like to see Gaethje challenge Khabib and utilise his wrestling and has Khabib been untested in this regard (Askren, Gillespie), I'd love to hear what you guys think?

Keep it respectable, it's just a nice genuine conversation however I do feel this is something to think about and if you've read the post before responding, I'm sure you'll get what I mean

I think you could honesty say the same about Gaethje cant you?

Has he been tested against elite wrestlers in MMA ? Have we seen him really apply dominant MMA wrestling against a high level opponent?

Not knocking your thread... I would love to see those two guys scrap...

Sadly Khabib is not prolific and it's doubtful he will ever fight more than once a year for the rest of his career.... So there will always be unanswered questions about the guy.

 

[GSP Rush]

You need to be on Olympic level to test him, how many Olympic level wrestlers do you know in LW? - 0! Askren doesn't make 155lb.

Hmmm, not sure I agree with this. I'm trying to find a way to word this so it sounds right but I think you're overrating Khabib or underrating other people's ability or something.

I personally feel he's been untested in this regard, I don't think seeing this means Khabib can't be beaten or shouldn't be challenged by these fighters, I think these are the fights he needs.

At the end of the day, the fights he's been getting have been pretty much guaranteed for him, specially considering what I mentioned about it only being a matter of time until he takes these previous fighters down and they're pretty much done. He tires them out like crazy once he gets a hold of them which is usually pretty quickly because they don't have the TD defence as much as these kind of fighters which is what they need.

It's not the best example because GSP is one of the best MMA wrestlers we've ever seen, but I'm reminded of GSP/Koscheck 1.

Koscheck was 'the wrestler' but he had been ignoring it for years and Georges had been in the gym everyday working on his wrestling. Come fight time GSP was able to stuff and reverse Kos' takedowns, and take down and control Kos throughout the fight.
Skills on paper don't matter, you have to keep working those skills every day or they will fade.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that, I think it's a very valid point but I do feel that Gaethje (for example of course) although might need to brush up on this more (maybe he doesn't, who knows) but if the fight was booked I'm sure he would. There would no doubt be enough time and of course I get that consistency of the training side of things benefiting someone however it's something that Gaethje obviously has already and I don't think it would take much to brush off the cobwebs he may have if a fight was to be presented with Khabib.

Again, Gaethje is just an example that came to mind for me in regards to this however the theory/principle of this is still the same if you get what I mean

 

[mkt]

Askren himself has said he can't make 155. Khabib shouldn't have to go up in weight and face larger opponents. It is unfortunate that all the lightweight wrestlers left the division or went out of prime by the time Khabib made his way to the title picture. Gillespie is really the only one available but there is no hype behind him.

It looks like Askren could make 155 if he lost the love handles and baby fat. But I know he does claim that.

 

[GSP Rush]

Askren himself has said he can't make 155. Khabib shouldn't have to go up in weight and face larger opponents. It is unfortunate that all the lightweight wrestlers left the division or went out of prime by the time Khabib made his way to the title picture. Gillespie is really the only one available but there is no hype behind him.

Yeah, Gillespie also probably does need a little more experience too before going up against the likes of Khabib. That said, as I mentioned before he could bring us a very surprising fight, he might not win the fight but he might give Khabib some problems we haven't seen him face before but I hear what you saying.

I think you could honesty say the same about Gaethje cant you?

Has he been tested against elite wrestlers in MMA ? Have we seen him really apply dominant MMA wrestling against a high level opponent?

Not knocking your thread... I would love to see those two guys scrap...

Sadly Khabib is not prolific and it's doubtful he will ever fight more than once a year for the rest of his career.... So there will always be unanswered questions about the guy.

That's a very valid point, it's not knocking my thread at all, it's a great point you mention.

I hope Khabib does get a little more active once this fight with Dustin is done with but I guess we'll just have to see.

 

[GSP Rush]

Gaethje was a solid Div 1 guy but rarely uses his wrestling and gets taken down by guys like Poirier. Like all skills, wrestling is largely use-it-or-lose-it, so I wouldn't just assume he can shut down Khabib. Which fighter has worked more on developing and applying their grappling chops over the last 5 years? Khabib by a mile. That's just as important (maybe more important) than credentials they earned long ago.

That is something to definitely take on board in regards to this with Gaethje's training, although I'm not sure it's as cemented as that in regards to "use it or lose it" kinda thing. I know what you're saying in regards to being consistent with the training of it and agree completely but if the fight was booked in advance, Gaethje had the time to get heavy into the training and dust off the cobwebs, I don't think it would be out of his depth to go in and have this fight if you get what I mean.

It's a fight that needs to happen in my opinion, again, Gaethje is just an example in regards to the fights Khabib could have as opposed to the fights he's currently had but I do think you also make some very valid points to completely take on board, for sure.

 

[Morra]

Ismail Naurdiev was a very good wrestler on paper, but in his last fight he faced decent MMA wrestler and you saw what happened. I wouldn't take into account Gaethje's wrestling career at all. Especially since he doesn't even try to use it in cage.

 

[blaseblah]

It looks like Askren could make 155 if he lost the love handles and baby fat. But I know he does claim that.

He will never attempt 155 so no point in discussing.

 

[Medulla Omoplata]

Hmmm, not sure I agree with this. I'm trying to find a way to word this so it sounds right but I think you're overrating Khabib or underrating other people's ability or something.

I personally feel he's been untested in this regard, I don't think seeing this means Khabib can't be beaten or shouldn't be challenged by these fighters, I think these are the fights he needs.

At the end of the day, the fights he's been getting have been pretty much guaranteed for him, specially considering what I mentioned about it only being a matter of time until he takes these previous fighters down and they're pretty much done. He tires them out like crazy once he gets a hold of them which is usually pretty quickly because they don't have the TD defence as much as these kind of fighters which is what they need.



Yeah, I don't disagree with that, I think it's a very valid point but I do feel that Gaethje (for example of course) although might need to brush up on this more (maybe he doesn't, who knows) but if the fight was booked I'm sure he would. There would no doubt be enough time and of course I get that consistency of the training side of things benefiting someone however it's something that Gaethje obviously has already and I don't think it would take much to brush off the cobwebs he may have if a fight was to be presented with Khabib.

Again, Gaethje is just an example that came to mind for me in regards to this however the theory/principle of this is still the same if you get what I mean

The interesting thing about the whole discussion is that you don't have to outwrestle Khabib. It's not a wrestling match.
You just need to be competitive and skilled enough to make him work, to not get too tired and beat up, and to force some scrambles and get ups throughout the fights. Just competitive enough so that you don't spend 5 minutes every round on your ass defending.
If you can get him tired, stuff a couple of shots, and start landing leather you can turn it into a competitive fight.
You can loes the grappling but still win the fight, as long as you don't get dominated.

So people are saying no one can best Khabib in wrestling, and that may be true, but that's not necessary to win the fight.

Now that's still all easier said than done, but people who are super hung up on the fact that no one at LW can outwrestle Khabib are kind of missing the point of MMA.

 

[Pressure Project]

Gaethje could be the guy to end Khabib...or a "Gaethje Type" of fighter. Good wrestling and brutal stand up. Tony is another one.

 

[GSP Rush]

i agree hes untested but justin lives on his kicks. It would only be a few minutes before he instinctively threw one and khabib grabs him. If he changed his style 100% for this fight MAYBE he could have a chance but Justin is a brawler by nature and would most likley end up on the bottom of khabib rendering his wrestling useless.

Sorry I missed your posts (and the other one too however thank you!!). Yeah, I know what you're saying but I do feel if this was a fight that happened to be booked, Dana/Sean would have to book this fight in advance, it would be very unfair to throw Gaethje in at last minute and expect him to be able to perform to his full potential in this kind of match up, he'd need to brush off the cobwebs for sure but I'm sure once he got into the roll of things, he'd be pretty much on par with what he was doing before but I guess the fight would tell us this if it happened to come around.

Which, I think it should

Khabib would box Askren up on the feet so that matchup doesn't really interest me. It would just be a bad kickboxing match that Khabib would win

The Gaethje fight is interesting because he's obviously a better striker and a good enough grappler to be difficult to take down, but has admitted himself he doesn't wrestle in fights because it makes him get tired. I'd probably favour Khabib but you can't count Gaethje out of any fight and I hope we get to see that at some point

Gillespie is definitely a good enough wrestler to give Khabib problems but I have questions about his striking and he's a lot smaller than Khabib which is significant in a fight likely to include a lot of grappling

Yeah, I will say Khabib's stand up game is better than it's often given credit for, it's not that he isn't credited for it but obviously because his ground game is so elite it over shadows everything he may be skilled at when fighting in the octagon.

The Askren thing too, I dunno, he got caught by Robbie and took a beating and came back from that (we don't need to go into the controversy of the outcome) but he did show he has resilience there, with Masvidal he just got caught, I think anyone would have been KO'd by that to be honest.

Gillespie I'm give and take on, I don't for one minute doubt that he's not able to give him problems, I absolutely think he will and I think he'll surprise us but I do kinda feel he'd probably need a little more before going in with Khabib, although of course, I wouldn't be opposed to it if it happened now and would love to see.

he might be new but is already one of the best posters on here. Logical, reasonable and mature. I enjoy his posts

Thank you dude, it's much appreciated. I do try to see things from all perspectives and give people something to think about so I appreciate those kind words dearly so thank you!!

 

[mkt]

That is something to definitely take on board in regards to this with Gaethje's training, although I'm not sure it's as cemented as that in regards to "use it or lose it" kinda thing. I know what you're saying in regards to being consistent with the training of it and agree completely but if the fight was booked in advance, Gaethje had the time to get heavy into the training and dust off the cobwebs, I don't think it would be out of his depth to go in and have this fight if you get what I mean.

It's a fight that needs to happen in my opinion, again, Gaethje is just an example in regards to the fights Khabib could have as opposed to the fights he's currently had but I do think you also make some very valid points to completely take on board, for sure.

I'm sure Justin could tune up and improve his wrestling, but again, this has been Khabib's bread-and-butter since he's been doing MMA. I don't think he could catch up to Khabib's overall MMA grappling level. Also, Gaethje has developed clear brawling instincts that aren't easy to overcome. I'm reminded of Dan Henderson taking Anderson down in the first round of their fight--very similar to Chael or Weidman. But then he though he could stand with Anderson in the 2nd round and paid for it. Gaethje's leg kicks and rather reckless brawling style could make TDD more difficult...because Khabib will be looking for every opening and opportunity.

 

[Deadwing88]

Ismail Naurdiev was a very good wrestler on paper, but in his last fight he faced decent MMA wrestler and you saw what happened. I wouldn't take into account Gaethje's wrestling career at all. Especially since he doesn't even try to use it in cage.

He doesn't use it, as he's openly admitted that he can't wrestle for more than 2 rounds before gassing..
A gamebreaker when you take into account, Khabib's energy sapping top game. By round 3, Gaethje would be completely gassed.

 

[T-Rex arms]

Gaethje will KO Khabib stiff

 

[GSP Rush]

Ismail Naurdiev was a very good wrestler on paper, but in his last fight he faced decent MMA wrestler and you saw what happened. I wouldn't take into account Gaethje's wrestling career at all. Especially since he doesn't even try to use it in cage.

But it's there, I think if he got the fight booked with Khabib and brushed off any cobwebs he may have we'd see a very interesting fight.

He only doesn't use it now because he chooses not to, for all we know he might still do some of level of training within it though again, he's already trained in this and very highly too that it really would be a case of making sure the fight was booked in advance so he can get deep into that and brush off any cobwebs he may have.

The interesting thing about the whole discussion is that you don't have to outwrestle Khabib. It's not a wrestling match.
You just need to be competitive and skilled enough to make him work, to not get too tired and beat up, and to force some scrambles and get ups throughout the fights. Just competitive enough so that you don't spend 5 minutes every round on your ass defending.
If you can get him tired, stuff a couple of shots, and start landing leather you can turn it into a competitive fight.
You can loes the grappling but still win the fight, as long as you don't get dominated.

So people are saying no one can best Khabib in wrestling, and that may be true, but that's not necessary to win the fight.

Now that's still all easier said than done, but people who are super hung up on the fact that no one at LW can outwrestle Khabib are kind of missing the point of MMA.

Yeah and also not get worked down yourself too (hence why I mention how the TD defence is very important), as you say about the spending every 5 minutes on your ass defending, this is what most people do in the fights he's been booked, which again goes back to the whole because they're too easy to take down and once they are taken down it's as though they give up (although we know this is because it's just so tiring that they're being worn down as opposed to giving up).

I think you've nailed it and you've got a really good perspective on this also, it's a fight that needs to happen in my opinion.

Gaethje could be the guy to end Khabib...or a "Gaethje Type" of fighter. Good wrestling and brutal stand up. Tony is another one.

I absolutely agree, again Gaethje has this advantage with the wrestling side of the things and skills he already has, as @Medulla Omoplata mentioned above, he's pretty much nailed it and I do feel Gaethje could be the one to do this, or at least give him the fight we need to see whether he wins or loses.

I think you guys have nailed it.

 

[Medulla Omoplata]

But it's there, I think if he got the fight booked with Khabib and brushed off any cobwebs he may have we'd see a very interesting fight.

He only doesn't use it now because he chooses not to, for all we know he might still do some of level of training within it though again, he's already trained in this and very highly too that it really would be a case of making sure the fight was booked in advance so he can get deep into that and brush off any cobwebs he may have.



Yeah and also not get worked down yourself too (hence why I mention how the TD defence is very important), as you say about the spending every 5 minutes on your ass defending, this is what most people do in the fights he's been booked, which again goes back to the whole because they're too easy to take down and once they are taken down it's as though they give up (although we know this is because it's just so tiring that they're being worn down as opposed to giving up).

I think you've nailed it and you've got a really good perspective on this also, it's a fight that needs to happen in my opinion.



I absolutely agree, again Gaethje has this advantage with the wrestling side of the things and skills he already has, as @Medulla Omoplata mentioned above, he's pretty much nailed it and I do feel Gaethje could be the one to do this, or at least give him the fight we need to see whether he wins or loses.

I think you guys have nailed it.

I'm super smart and one of the best posters on this site, everyone agrees.

 

[mkt]

He doesn't use it, as he's openly admitted that he can't wrestle for more than 2 rounds before gassing..
A gamebreaker when you take into account, Khabib's energy sapping top game. By round 3, Gaethje would be completely gassed.

I think this is a real possibility. Even if Justin stuffs some TDs and does well for a couple of rounds, Khabib has a very good chin, serviceable striking and the ability to take the fight into deep waters where Gaethje's cardio tends to fail.

 

[Fossor]

Hmmm, not sure I agree with this. I'm trying to find a way to word this so it sounds right but I think you're overrating Khabib or underrating other people's ability or something.

I personally feel he's been untested in this regard, I don't think seeing this means Khabib can't be beaten or shouldn't be challenged by these fighters, I think these are the fights he needs.

At the end of the day, the fights he's been getting have been pretty much guaranteed for him, specially considering what I mentioned about it only being a matter of time until he takes these previous fighters down and they're pretty much done. He tires them out like crazy once he gets a hold of them which is usually pretty quickly because they don't have the TD defence as much as these kind of fighters which is what they need.

You can't disagree with facts. He is on Olympic level. Go watch DC interviews where he is talking about Khabib wrestling with him, while being 50 pounds lighter.