Just rewatched Fedor versus Werdum

[King Cobra]

Seriously

Y7ou sound like a bitch here. Then again you wish Fedor can be your lover but that is not going to happen because he does not roll that way.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

You're absolutely rediculous and very bad at debating because you just finished saying Fedor never fought master BJJ guy aside from Arona and Nogueira(2),well what is Nogueira not a master,what a contradiction and besides those two what about Monson who was incredible in adcc and has subbed lots of really good fighters and beat pe de pano in mma,Fedor had no problem with against him.

Fedor lost against Werdum not because he was a BJJ fighter but because Fedor was no longer mentally into it at the time,Fedor didn't have to go to the ground with Werdum he choose to fight that way,he also escaped the first triangle and put his head right back into it,that is a clear sign of someone that wasn't mentally into competing at that point,not a weakness to BJJ.

The key issue as well is that were not just talking MMA rather than BJJ but a specific kind of submission fighting in MMA, that is catching someone in a sub from the bottom when they are GnPing you or in a transition. In that respect I actually think you could make a case Nog is on a very similar level to Werdum and indeed has significantly more subs from his back than he does in MMA.

You watch Fedor/Nog in 2003 and Fedor/Werdum in 2010 and I think the difference is very clear, these matches start in a nearly identical fashion, Fedor catches them both early and ends up ontop on the ground. The first difference though is that in 2003 he see's Nog is still a danger and at first focuses on maintaining top position where as in 2010 he goes crazy with GnP. The kind of GnP he throws though is also very different, 2003 Fedor basically either stays head on belly with Nog OR he creates distance to throw diving bombs. This makes it very tough for Nog to look for the triangle as Fedor is either too close or too far away. |n 2010 though Fedor GnPs very differently, he stays in that mid distance just above Werdum and trys to blitz him with loads of more standard "wrestler" GnP(look at Coleman vs Nog) leaving himself much more open to the triangle, so much so that Werdum almost gets it on him before he actually does.

Nothing really shows ignorance of the sport more than claiming "BJJ was Fedor's weakness" when the man put on probably the greatest anti BJJ grappling performance of all time in MMA. His own performance vs Werdum actually just goes to further reinforce how good he was in 2003.

 

[fatlipjesus]

Frank Mir for one. He would had given Fedor hell on the ground like he did to Big Nog. Mir's main issue would had been him not getting knock out standing with Fedor.

Ricco Rodriguez was another. He submitted Big Nog in grappling and gave him a tough fight in Pride that could should had been given to him as a decision win. His biggest issue was getting hooked on cocaine and being a party animal afterwards.

Werdum fought Fedor and he tapped him out in a minute because he was a better grappler.

Why?

Because BJJ > Sambo in MMA.

Watch Oleg Tatarov vs Renzo Gracie.


And you also have Josh Barnett who was more a catch wrestler but Fedor would had not been able to get position on Barbett the way he did with Big Nog nor would he had been able to sweep a strong catch wrestler like Barnett.

BJJ takes place entirely on the ground. Combat sambo is striking and grappling. So, no, BJJ isn't better than Sambo in MMA unless you're specifically on the ground. Fedor's sambo background gave him a high skill level in striking and grappling, and because of his judo background he could actually dictate where the fight took place. Mir and Nog couldn't take down shit and ended up taking many extended beatings trying to futilely take people down. If Nog didn't have a retard strong chin his MMA career would have looked far different.

Barnett had his chance and he backed out and then got caught with steroids. Not much anybody can do about that.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Mir might have had a chance to catch the latter Fedor in something on the ground although he's not nearly as canny as Werdum, prime Fedor is a horrible matchup for Mir though, remember this is a guy who got TKOed on the ground by Ian Freeman.

 

[King Cobra]

BJJ takes place entirely on the ground. Combat sambo is striking and grappling. So, no, BJJ isn't better than Sambo in MMA unless you're specifically on the ground.

You know very well that I was talking about the ground element of Sambo. BJJ is more advanced with chokes and more evolved with guard based techniques including with passing on top and attacking from the bottom. What Sambo does specialize in more is with leg locks.

And to be honest, I like combining Sambo with BJJ because of the leg locks. What Sambo does incorporate into their training that BJJ does not is striking on the ground while wearing a face cage and head gear. This is why Fedor was so good with ground and pound even on the guard. He was able o train this many times while guys like Big Nog were not. But again I was simply going by the grappling aspect of both styles alone.

Fedor's sambo background gave him a high skill level in striking and grappling, and because of his judo background he could actually dictate where the fight took place. Mir and Nog couldn't take down shit and ended up taking many extended beatings trying to futilely take people down. If Nog didn't have a retard strong chin his MMA career would have looked far different.

Barnett had his chance and he backed out and then got caught with steroids. Not much anybody can do about that.

Fedor's striking did not just exclusively came from Sambo. He trained boxing since he was a child. He combined boxing with his Sambo striking and also trained Dutch Kickboxing later on with Ernesto Hoost. He was also a Judo practitioner and athlete for a while too. He was not just an exclusive Sambo stylist. Him being a Judoka helped him focus even more on upper body takedown moves like hip tosses. Where as in Sambo they also incorporate takedowns from the waist down like double legs. This is the reason why he was so good. He was a MMA practional before MMA even became a thing in general.

Not to say that Sambo was not a format of MMA in itself because it was. But Fedor was able to incorporate more elements by also exclusively training in Boxing and Judo outside of the realm of Sambo.

 

[SuperNerd]

Did Fedor breathe fire in that fight too?

 

[hugemmafan22]

Fedor's striking technique is Felony Fights level.

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

Y7ou sound like a bitch here. Then again you wish Fedor can be your lover but that is not going to happen because he does not roll that way.

 

[King Cobra]

Nothing really shows ignorance of the sport more than claiming "BJJ was Fedor's weakness" when the man put on probably the greatest anti BJJ grappling performance of all time in MMA. His own performance vs Werdum actually just goes to further reinforce how good he was in 2003.

No. Fedor was very good at maintaining position in one's guard like Nog because he trained in ground and pound sessions which has been very common with Sambo training for a while, especially with the use of a face cage and head gear.

Guys like Big Nog did not trained for these type of situations. Werdum evolved more with his grappling to deal with countering ground and pound attacks,. He himself went over in his training in countering Fedor's ground and pound by catching him with either a triangle or arm bar. Do you really believe for one second that Werdum and his coach never studied the fight between Fedor and Big Nog? Of course he did.

So....My point stands...Fedor's weakness is him fighting a strong BJJ fighter THAT can counter and defend his ground and pound on the guard.

To say that Fedor does not have any weakness is an absolute form of man worshiping. Everyone has a weakness or flaw. Anderson Silva's weakness was him fighting a strong wrestler with good BJJ defense. GSP's weakness was him fighting a good boxer with great takedown defense or a strong wrestler with good boxing.

 

[Workaholic]

Aldo is tied with GSP in title defenses and is back to the top, with only 30 years old. Never popped and didn´t "retire" when USADA came in like GSP.

GSP retired in November of 2013

USADA testing started July 1 2015 and was announced June of 2015

The UFC hadn't even started laying the groundwork for USADA when GSP retired

Don't post retarded shit that adds to an untrue narrative

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

today, as records stands you would have to give it to GSP. Fedor was amazing and probably the best "fighter" who came in for the kill each and every time.

 

[Philtard]

10-8
9-10
9-10

Draw.

The part where fedor spit out his mouth piece and got an immediate break was disgusting. The commentators were equally biased. Set up for fedor to win from the get go.

 

[neXt leVel]

To hell with you demons

 

[tramendous]

I'm not so sure that Fedor actually hurt Werdum. Looks like Werdum is doing his usual "get touched anywhere and pull guard" routine. He does it against everyone, even against Browne. Still no shame at all about getting caught by Werdum, or losing to TRT Bigfoot/Hendo for that matter.

fedor's 3rd punch (left look) looks like it grazed the side of werdum's head. he may have got wobbled there and then decided its safer to just flop down and try to catch a sub. it worked.

 

[KOskater]

Fedor catches Werdum at 4:33. He could have let Werdum get up, and repeated his onslaught again until Werdum was really out, but he fell into the Werdum trap of wer-doom. Credit to Werdum, he has been a UFC HeavyWeight champ. He's only lost to the best in the world.

A lesser grappler would have been finished, but Werdum was arguable THE BEST GRAPPLER IN THE WORLD at the time, based on ADCC performance.

The point I'm making is that this was the end of Fedor's reign. Fedor may have lost the will after this, or this may have been the end of his prime. Different fighers have different lifespans when it comes to being in their prime. He may have also slacked off training and started swiggin on some vodka.

He's still the GOAT.

• He could have beaten Werdum.
• Werdum is an awesome fighter, Top 5 Heavy Weight all time.
• Fedor's prime ended around this time.
• Fedor always came with 100% intensity, never ran, never backed down from a position like Conor or Runereem.
• Was brave enough to fight the GOAT grappler at his own game and lost.

 

[KOskater]

fedor's 3rd punch (left look) looks like it grazed the side of werdum's head. he may have got wobbled there and then decided its safer to just flop down and try to catch a sub. it worked.

No I think this was his master plan all along. He prolly did get hit and a little hurt but he trained to fall as soon as it got close.

Fedor would have jumped into his guard even if he weren't hurt.

He did the butt scoot all with Overeem after.

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

Whoa this is crazy!? You're telling me if Fedor didn't lose...he would've won!

This is a mind blowingly huge revelation.

 

[tramendous]

No I think this was his master plan all along. He prolly did get hit and a little hurt but he trained to fall as soon as it got close.

Fedor would have jumped into his guard even if he weren't hurt.

He did the butt scoot all with Overeem after.

thats what i meant. he might have got wobbled/hurt with that punch and then fell back on his plan.

 

[tramendous]

Whoa this is crazy!? You're telling me if Fedor didn't lose...he would've won!

This is a mind blowingly huge revelation.

no if he didnt get caught in that sub, i.e. he gets out of it just barely and then decides not to jump into werdum's guard, there is a good chance he would have won. as oppose to say dillashaw not landing his finishing shots on barao, he still would have probably won.

edit: meant dillashaw not finishing barao not the the other way around

 

[TheTimeIsNotNow]

Fedor was in his prime here and was simply beaten by a better fighter. Just like he was with Dan Henderson.

It was a sad end to a storied career to have him run from Ubereem, but since he got KO'd by a middleweight what chance would he really have had?