Just how good... is Ilia Topuria?

[DrRodentia]

wrong question.., is not "just how good is Ilia Topuria?" ..but " how bad/overrated Is Mateusz Gamrot?"

You're right. There are no good wins. Just bad opponents.

 

[Hymen Crusher]

I have said a few times on hear the past year or two that I think he is the best fighter in the ufc and the potential best fighter in the last probably 10 years maybe 5. I think his movement is world class like Pac-Man or Mayweather thats why I feel tom has a chance to be great too

 

[paulchozick]

People were discrediting the Charles win for:

1) Charles losing to Arman, despite it being a fairly even 29-28 type of SD either way. Charles almost got the submission round 1 too.

2) Charles not being able to stop Chandler in the rematch and having bad spots in the 5th round despite repeated fouls by Chandler, and Charles having outclassed him wide the first 4.

They were saying Charles was shot with how easily Ilia KO'd him. Charles even failed to impose his grappling in the fight, got reversed and side-mounted almost immediately. Now months later we see Charles outclass Gamrot everywhere and get the submission.

Charles since joining Chute Boxe Lima and moving up to LW is 14-3 now and he's only been decisively beaten by Islam and Ilia, most likely the 2 best fighters in the sport, P4P.

Sir, just because Topuria beat Oli, does NOT mean that he absorbs Oli's win..

Do you understand, each fight is its own thing.

 

[mkt]

GSP and Anderson Silva stumbled along the way until they got it together and had legendary runs. They weren’t can’t miss prospects.


I’m not saying Shogun had a better career, I’m saying he was a generational prospect until injuries derailed his career.

Maybe but I think Jones was his kryptonite with or without injuries. I'd also incluwhich was ade BJ Penn as a generational prodigy. Until Frankie, his only LW loss was in his fifth fight when he faced the UFC LW champ. No modern fighter would jump into the fire like he did. He had a scary amount of raw ability as well as skills for an early 2000s fighter.

 

[DaysOfThunder]

Objectively, Ilia will have to pass the test of time.
Fedor dominated the Pride open class for almost a decade during Pride's heyday, where the top fighters in the world were fighting.
Pride was bought out by UFC and Fedor went to Bellator, where at 35, he experienced his first loss. I am not counting his other loss due to medical stoppage.
Fedor, in his prime was unbeatable.

 

[andgonsil]

Even Islam ducked Toppy

 

[DrRodentia]

Objectively, Ilia will have to pass the test of time.
Fedor dominated the Pride open class for almost a decade during Pride's heyday, where the top fighters in the world were fighting.
Pride was bought out by UFC and Fedor went to Bellator, where at 35, he experienced his first loss. I am not counting his other loss due to medical stoppage.
Fedor, in his prime was unbeatable.

Just gonna fact check here. He lost to Werdum at 33 in Strikeforce. He didn't fight in Bellator until 7 years and multiple losses after that.

 

[BEATDOWNS]

He's good at beating old guys.

 

[rjmbrd]

Good enough for his fans to not complain about his one fight every 10s month schedule

To be fair, who do you match him with?

Arman is the clear #1 contender and the UFC simply refused to book him for the title. Topuria already murdered Max and Charles. Islam left the division.

I wouldn't mind a 'why not' fight with #7 Paddy but the cold hard truth is there is no clear contender outside of Arman who the UFC blocked. So now we get the winner of Arman x Hooker getting a spot. Presumably JG x Paddy, if they let Max fight Charles.

Whoever gets the next big win will get a title shot. If I'm Topuria and Islam is out and I killed Max and Charles, I would wait for something better than JG, which would be frankly ridiculous.

 

[ExitLUPin]

Sir, just because Topuria beat Oli, does NOT mean that he absorbs Oli's win..

Do you understand, each fight is its own thing.

I'm not using MMA math to say Ilia beats Gamrot because Ilia > Charles > Gamrot. I'm saying this win shows Charles is still an elite world class LW with how soundly he beat a top LW like Gamrot. People were saying Charles was shot after Ilia KO'd him. That certainly isn't true.

 

[ExitLUPin]

To be fair, who do you match him with?

Arman is the clear #1 contender and the UFC simply refused to book him for the title. Topuria already murdered Max and Charles. Islam left the division.

I wouldn't mind a 'why not' fight with #7 Paddy but the cold hard truth is there is no clear contender outside of Arman who the UFC blocked. So now we get the winner of Arman x Hooker getting a spot. Presumably JG x Paddy, if they let Max fight Charles.

Whoever gets the next big win will get a title shot. If I'm Topuria and Islam is out and I killed Max and Charles, I would wait for something better than JG, which would be frankly ridiculous.

Arman was booked to fight Islam for the title and pulled out a day before from a back injury due to the weight cut. That's why Moicano got the fight. I understand why UFC doesn't want to book him for the title fight right away but he was the backup for Ilia-Charles.

 

[DrRodentia]

To be fair, who do you match him with?

Arman is the clear #1 contender and the UFC simply refused to book him for the title. Topuria already murdered Max and Charles. Islam left the division.

I wouldn't mind a 'why not' fight with #7 Paddy but the cold hard truth is there is no clear contender outside of Arman who the UFC blocked. So now we get the winner of Arman x Hooker getting a spot. Presumably JG x Paddy, if they let Max fight Charles.

Whoever gets the next big win will get a title shot. If I'm Topuria and Islam is out and I killed Max and Charles, I would wait for something better than JG, which would be frankly ridiculous.

JG may be ridiculous, but it very well may be what happens. Deserved or not.

If Dana wasn't so grudge driven and still mad at Arman, that fight could have probably already happened. It's what makes the most sense.

 

[DrRodentia]

I'm not using MMA math to say Ilia beats Gamrot because Ilia > Charles > Gamrot. I'm saying this win shows Charles is still an elite world class LW with how soundly he beat a top LW like Gamrot. People were saying Charles was shot after Ilia KO'd him. That certainly isn't true.

All that said, I'm pretty sure Ilia would KO Gamrot if they were to fight.

 

[Aurelian]

JG may be ridiculous, but it very well may be what happens. Deserved or not.

If Dana wasn't so grudge driven and still mad at Arman, that fight could have probably already happened. It's what makes the most sense.

Assuming Arman even beats Hooker, how long before the Ilia vs Arman fight would materialize?

JG, Paddy, or even Max right now would be okay if they can get it booked for January or February.

 

[volcom5]

he’s really good, i think it’s time people stop using the out of prime excuses for fighters. we are seeing it in real time that fighters are still great at later ages. blame the PrideFC fan girls.

 

[rjmbrd]

He's good at beating old guys.

Max, Charles and Volk all won their next fight after losing to Topuria.

All 3 of their wins were against elite, ranked competition (Poirier, Gamrot, Lopes)

None of these guys are old/washed, they are still killing their peers directly before and after getting murdered by Topuria. He's just that good. Illia is a special talent that you get every 10 years or so. BJ Penn and Topuria both started as gifted athletes who were natural fighters - Topuria is also a consummate professional and hard worker.

This sport rarely sees a Topuria. The most physically gifted fighters don't usually have discipline and a laundry list of intangibles.

 

[DrRodentia]

Assuming Arman even beats Hooker, how long before the Ilia vs Arman fight would materialize?

JG, Paddy, or even Max right now would be okay if they can get it booked for January or February.

Yeah, I dunno. Just have to have Ilia fight somebody at this point. Paddy hasn't earned a shot, but there would be great interest. Sometimes it's OK to book things just because it would be fun and time permits. JG kinda fits that bill, too.

 

[DrRodentia]

He's good at beating old guys.

This is the criticism of damn near all young prospects and champs. Until they become the old guy and get beat by some young guy that is just beating old guys.

 

[Aurelian]

Yeah, I dunno. Just have to have Ilia fight somebody at this point. Paddy hasn't earned a shot, but there would be great interest. Sometimes it's OK to book things just because it would be fun and time permits. JG kinda fits that bill, too.

Yeah. Planning for Arman to manage to stay injury free during training, in the fight as well, win, and then turn around in a short amount of time is a whole lot to be expecting.

 

[rjmbrd]

Arman was booked to fight Islam for the title and pulled out a day before from a back injury due to the weight cut. That's why Moicano got the fight. I understand why UFC doesn't want to book him for the title fight right away but he was the backup for Ilia-Charles.

For the 500th time:

1) Dana White is on record lying over and over and over again. He is best described as a "professional liar" in his role as promoter. If he's inferred Arman wasn't on weight, that should strictly speaking be a surety Arman was on weight.

2) Arman has REPEATEDLY publicly stated he did not miss weight and had no weight problem. If he was lying, they would immediately say he was lying. They can't, because its simply not true. They weigh you upon arrival fight week and throughout. They could say in black and white he was not on weight.

Dana is petty and we know for fact from court records / discovery that the UFC systemically punished fighters who did not agree to fight injured, on short notice or against an opponent that made no sense. To the point they had to pay out over a quarter billion dollars to settle.

Its bush league Arman was not simply rebooked.