Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids

[Hog-train]

Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids... Not.

I keep hearing this on the forums as if it's a foregone conclusion. How do we know that? It's impossible to know.

There is a HUGE difference in physical advantage when an athlete uses PED's. It's night and day and we all know that.

Wanderlei SIlva - Pride days vs UFC - Huge difference.

Vitor Belfort on TRT is a world beater at an old age. Post TRT, he's a shell of himself.

Ubereem on roids is an inhuman monster. Post roids, he has a glass chin.

Countless other examples.

And not to be underestimated is the huge MENTAL advantage.

Fighting, while physical, is also 100% mental. Confidence and aggression is a gigantic factor in fighting.

The mental confidence these roiding fighters get is a huge crutch. Because how confidently can you fight clean when you've been fighting dirty your whole career?

 

[asharak]

Yup. He lacks the mentality to fight without gear in his back pocket.

 

[Fungoose]

Yup. He lacks the mentality to fight without gear in his back pocket.

 

[2004 account]

The only caveat with this argument is we will never know how far he would have gotten performing clean either

 

[RetiredSlave]

Fucking legalize steroids already or create seperate leagues. Sick of this shit. I want to see the inhuman monsters fight each other when both know for fact thats what they are. Make it happen.

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

Maybe, but it doesn't matter because one outcome is a reality and the other is your fantasy.

 

[Klaavical]

Fucking legalize steroids already or create seperate leagues. Sick of this shit. I want to see the inhuman monsters fight each other when both know for fact thats what they are. Make it happen.

That was Pride and it's over now.

 

[the white beast]

no way to know that for sure

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

Fucking legalize steroids already or create seperate leagues. Sick of this shit. I want to see the inhuman monsters fight each other when both know for fact thats what they are. Make it happen.

I was under the impression we were shooting for clean UFC, shady bellator and obvious juicing RIZIN


Then jon jones is like

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

no way to know that for sure

This.

I love how their excuse is "everyone is on them" but it's jon failing over and over and not "everyone"

 

[Dirge]

Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids... Not.

I keep hearing this on the forums as if it's a foregone conclusion. How do we know that? It's impossible to know.

There is a HUGE difference in physical advantage when an athlete uses PED's. It's night and day and we all know that.

Wanderlei SIlva - Pride days vs UFC - Huge difference.

Vitor Belfort on TRT is a world beater at an old age. Post TRT, he's a shell of himself.

Ubereem on roids is an inhuman monster. Post roids, he has a glass chin.

Countless other examples.

And not to be underestimated is the huge MENTAL advantage.

Fighting, while physical, is also 100% mental. Confidence and aggression is a gigantic factor in fighting.

The mental confidence these roiding fighters get is a huge crutch. Because how confidently can you fight clean when you've been fighting dirty your whole career?

Your examples don't make much sense

Overeem got ko'd 10x pre-usada and 3x post usada

If you think trt was the only thing vitor was using given how many tests he has failed for steroids (he and Barnett currently hold the mma record), you might want to buy some swamp land in Florida

Silva looked like shit in the UFC for the most part but he joined after being brutally ko'd twice and already had 38 pro fights. And all of his fights in the UFC were pre-usada. You really think he stopped ?

There are other fighters that had huge drop offs in performance post usada (Anderson Silva and Johnny Hendricks for example) that might fit your analogy better

 

[ZOD66]

Jones still destroyed them all even so they too was on steroids Machida Vitor Sonnen Rashad Rampage. Rua ...

 

[Tze]

' Yeah, but no. '
- Tze

 

[ostlerrage]

Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids... Not.

I keep hearing this on the forums as if it's a foregone conclusion. How do we know that? It's impossible to know.

There is a HUGE difference in physical advantage when an athlete uses PED's. It's night and day and we all know that.

Wanderlei SIlva - Pride days vs UFC - Huge difference.

Vitor Belfort on TRT is a world beater at an old age. Post TRT, he's a shell of himself.

Ubereem on roids is an inhuman monster. Post roids, he has a glass chin.

Countless other examples.

And not to be underestimated is the huge MENTAL advantage.

Fighting, while physical, is also 100% mental. Confidence and aggression is a gigantic factor in fighting.

The mental confidence these roiding fighters get is a huge crutch. Because how confidently can you fight clean when you've been fighting dirty your whole career?

jones is a chicken paper champ. too afraid to fight without juice.

 

[felmmando]

Maybe, but it doesn't matter because one outcome is a reality and the other is your fantasy.

The reality is that he was stripped and suspended and then returned to competition under circumstances that outraged everyone but him and his employers.

 

[surrealworlds]

My new-to-me stance is we should legalize steroids for HW and above.
206+ roid all you want but you take a chance the other guy might be 300+ roided out too. (No 265 limit)

 

[BeardotheWeirdo]

Jon Jones himself doesn't believe that, or he wouldn't be using them.

You think he's just using them for furn, regardless of the risk involved? Come on.

 

[felmmando]

Jones still destroyed them all even so they too was on steroids Machida Vitor Sonnen Rashad Rampage. Rua ...

On what basis do you say those fighters were on steroids? Ever since Jones-Cormier 2, it intrigues me to ponder what would have happened if Evans had been on steroids when he kicked Jones in the head.

 

[josephsjoseph]

this is my perspective. and entirely speculation.
Jon partied to hard. From coke to dick pills to binge drinking and more. He partied to hard to often and it fucked his hormonal system up. Jon would have crashed hard in college , went mentally unstable and became a shell if himself completely unrecognizable had he not used some sort of ped or trt from that point forward. it can take years of work with doctors and time off to get your system normal again for some people and that would have completely derailed jons path.

I think hes been on something or has been micro dosing but not abusing for his entire career. thats just speculation but everything in my mind leans towards that from my observations of him. So with that said i believe had jon made better choices when he was younger he would have still been just as good as long as his body was producing normal healthy levels of testosterone. His genetic ability, self belief and attributes are just to good. his body is built to do what he does the way he does it. I think he would have had less finishes but still been just as dominant. but this is only under the assumption he never abused and just used to maintain healthy levels if he actually abused my perspective would change. Its also interesting to note that a lot of what opened up his stand up and made him creative was using pot. I think thats part of what made him so good yet pots not considered a ped for some reason. Many martial artists who use pot would agree with that . Shit can turn you into a fighting machine.

I'm of the opinion that the ufc should not only monitor fighter brain health over their careers but hormonal issues where they make sure all their levels stay healthy and keep things more regulated so no one is easily abusing the system.

not making excuses for jon. I just don't believe he was wanderlie silva like at any point meaning he was legit on everything but the kitchen sink. I saw someone who was keeping his base up because of a partying life style and the want to continue living that way so i dont see him as the piece of shit everyone else does but i could be way wrong..

Also interesting to note that of all fighters jon is one of the most likely to not only do steroids but easily get away with it having the money and connections he does but more specifically having two brothers in the nfl. It is well known there are still many ways to get around these tests but its interesting that he still gets caught. Makes me wonder if there were times he was framed.


also interesting about the case of jon jones.
Drug use and hard partying brought on by sisters death?
Wanted to retire by 30 and never have a single rematch and stated that multiple times through out his career. possibly Self destructive behavior sub consciously or consciously looking for a way out.
fights with the mindset the opponents are in there to seriously injure him so uses that to justify a lot of the tactics he uses in fights. Same type of people are likely to do steroids if they think other people are.
very interesting. Jon malicious , evil, scum? probably not. probably just a human

 

[snackgod]

Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids... Not.

I keep hearing this on the forums as if it's a foregone conclusion. How do we know that? It's impossible to know.

There is a HUGE difference in physical advantage when an athlete uses PED's. It's night and day and we all know that.

Wanderlei SIlva - Pride days vs UFC - Huge difference.

Vitor Belfort on TRT is a world beater at an old age. Post TRT, he's a shell of himself.

Ubereem on roids is an inhuman monster. Post roids, he has a glass chin.

Countless other examples.

And not to be underestimated is the huge MENTAL advantage.

Fighting, while physical, is also 100% mental. Confidence and aggression is a gigantic factor in fighting.

The mental confidence these roiding fighters get is a huge crutch. Because how confidently can you fight clean when you've been fighting dirty your whole career?

jon jones knew he needed peds that why he took them