Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids

[Harmonica]

Fighting, while physical, is also 100% mental.

No. Wrong.

Ninety percent of fight game is half-mental.

 

[Zebo]

Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids... Not.

I keep hearing this on the forums as if it's a foregone conclusion. How do we know that? It's impossible to know.

There is a HUGE difference in physical advantage when an athlete uses PED's. It's night and day and we all know that.

Wanderlei SIlva - Pride days vs UFC - Huge difference.

Vitor Belfort on TRT is a world beater at an old age. Post TRT, he's a shell of himself.

Ubereem on roids is an inhuman monster. Post roids, he has a glass chin.

Countless other examples.

And not to be underestimated is the huge MENTAL advantage.

Fighting, while physical, is also 100% mental. Confidence and aggression is a gigantic factor in fighting.

The mental confidence these roiding fighters get is a huge crutch. Because how confidently can you fight clean when you've been fighting dirty your whole career?

The guys you are comparing to Jones is different. Those Guys were gassed to the brim. Pride days was a whole different ball game you could use every PED in unlimited dosages up into fight night. TRT is a Joke basically gave fighters a free pass to use as much test as they wanted. They could use test no ester or suspension and be gassed to the gills. Look at the guys you named Physiques on and off cycle, its night and day. Belfort and Overeem were looking like bodybuilders. Look at Jones Physique over the years on fight night, never anything close to those wild swings. If you are using in USADA era we are talking extreme micro dosing, in a crazy cat and mouse game. Jones tested clean his last test, so we will see if he passes all the test from now until Smith fight.

 

[BokaBokte]

So he takes them just for fun?
LMAO
I hate this narrative so much, it does not make sense at all...

 

[Frasier]

So he takes them just for fun?
LMAO
I hate this narrative so much, it does not make sense at all...

Lol, i agree with you. I think Jones without steroids is like Vitor without supplements. Technique is there but athleticism, power, speed and the mental advantage is all gone. Even more so now when he enters his thirties.

 

[ZOD66]

On what basis do you say those fighters were on steroids? Ever since Jones-Cormier 2, it intrigues me to ponder what would have happened if Evans had been on steroids when he kicked Jones in the head.

A lot fighters are shit after USADA come

 

[wigglestick]

I rather have a clean sport, its nice to know whos the best in the world without steroids. Because even though lots of people are cheating in the ufc, their is different degrees to peds and its not an even playing field.

Jones keeps getting caught because he is clearly juiced up, maybe other people are cheating but they're passing tests because they aren't super juiced like Jones. He can afford all the high level shit, and people to help him pass tests but he fails cause hes too afraid to fight without the big ped advantage.

This is why he'll only be known as the cheating goat, which fits him good considering he was voted UFC's biggest cheater even before this recent failed test

 

[Binny9]

 

[ortizgnp]

So you're comparing Jones under USADA to TRT Vitor, Pride Wanderlei and Ubereem?

Killed your own argument right there. There are levels.

 

[VinceArch]

He probably would be. But he did take steroids so he isn't.

 

[Has23]

If JJ would be the same without steroids then why did he take them in the first place? He wouldn't be as good without them and I'm sure he himself saw the difference with and without them therefore choosing to take the steroids because it enhances his performances

 

[Yep]

And Barry Bonds would’ve hit 73 homeruns.

 

[NoSmilez]

I think Jones would have done well with or without the steroids. His career would be much shorter though. I am pretty sure some folks can chime in but I am pretty sure they trained with pros that are on "supplements". Some of them really do well on it but some just need a crutch to give them the confidence to succeed. At the pro level, everyone hits hard and has decent technique/athleticism.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Jon would still be the GOAT even without steroids... Not.

I keep hearing this on the forums as if it's a foregone conclusion. How do we know that? It's impossible to know.

There is a HUGE difference in physical advantage when an athlete uses PED's. It's night and day and we all know that.

Wanderlei SIlva - Pride days vs UFC - Huge difference.

Vitor Belfort on TRT is a world beater at an old age. Post TRT, he's a shell of himself.

Ubereem on roids is an inhuman monster. Post roids, he has a glass chin.

Countless other examples.

And not to be underestimated is the huge MENTAL advantage.

Fighting, while physical, is also 100% mental. Confidence and aggression is a gigantic factor in fighting.

The mental confidence these roiding fighters get is a huge crutch. Because how confidently can you fight clean when you've been fighting dirty your whole career?

I think the biggest difference for Jones without PEDs would be his strength in the clinch and the speed/power of his kicks.

GENERALLY when someone is that tall and lanky, the short stockier fighter would have the strength advantage but against Jones, its a losing battle from a distance due to his length and kicks, its a losing battle from close because he is physically stronger in the clinch than even Cormier.

That is probably where PEDs help him the most.

It's been said the roid he was caught with is specifically known to maximize strength without retaining weight/size. It's how he makes 205lbs so easily and is stronger than 205lb Cormier.

 

[MrCoffee]

You will never know.

 

[IrritatedTomcat]

Your examples don't make much sense

Overeem got ko'd 10x pre-usada and 3x post usada

If you think trt was the only thing vitor was using given how many tests he has failed for steroids (he and Barnett currently hold the mma record), you might want to buy some swamp land in Florida

Silva looked like shit in the UFC for the most part but he joined after being brutally ko'd twice and already had 38 pro fights. And all of his fights in the UFC were pre-usada. You really think he stopped ?

There are other fighters that had huge drop offs in performance post usada (Anderson Silva and Johnny Hendricks for example) that might fit your analogy better

How many has Vitor failed? Not the obvious TRT abuse, I'm talking about a failed test like Jon Jones. Does he really have more or much more than Jones? Jones has three fails and a "suspect"

 

[Dirge]

How many has Vitor failed? Not the obvious TRT abuse, I'm talking about a failed test like Jon Jones. Does he really have more or much more than Jones? Jones has three fails and a "suspect"

I believe vitor is at 4 if you count the fail they swept under the rug just prior to his fight with Jones

Hell he popped in pride back in 2006... how does anyone fail a drug test in pride ????

 

[Aluminati]

True, but if Mike Perry had the fight IQ of GSP he'd be WW champion right now.
Sadly, both of those scenarios only exist in alternate universes.

 

[Aluminati]

I believe vitor is at 4 if you count the fail they swept under the rug just prior to his fight with Jones

Hell he popped in pride back in 2006... how does anyone fail a drug test in pride ????

Has anyone else ever failed a drug test in PRIDE?

 

[Brit_Brawler]

Exactly. If steroids didnt mean shit then jon wouldn't keep on taking them. They obviously are doing something

 

[Dirge]

Has anyone else ever failed a drug test in PRIDE?

Actually there were 3 failures on the same card, Nastula and Randleman. It's one of a very few events they tested at (And they didn't test everyone on the card) and 3 of their main card guys failed...

Ironically Hendo was tested and passed clean. There are a few haters on here who have accused Hendo of cheating because of his TUE for TRT. And yet he passed tests that Vitor and Randleman couldn't.