Jon Jones weighing 216 over a week before his fight with DC.

[Miiiiiiighty]

I'm not saying there isn't ways around things, but Bigfoot didn't have a TRT exemption for that fight. He also had blood and Urine work done due to Fedor wanting stricter drug testing for all of those that participated in the HW Grand Prix. And if you want to claim Bigfoot was on something that didn't seem to be a problem for Cormier

Spoiler: Source for Bigfoot not being on TRT and having urine and blood work done

The first and only fight for which Bigfoot got a TRT exemption was the Hunt fight, where he then tested positive for elevated testosterone. He originally applied for a TUE for the Cain fight but didn't get it because there wasn't enough time for NSAC to evaluate his paperwork etc.


Below is the list of fighters that applied for a TRT exemption with the dates. Bigfoot only applied for a trt exemption in 2013 not 2011 when he fought Fedor

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...eived-therapeutic-use-exemptions-testosterone

So all we know is that Bigfoot tested positive for a steroid in 2008, and for elevated testosterone in the Hunt fight -- which is kind of funny because there's a good chance they wouldn't even have tested his actual testosterone level if it weren't for the TRT TUE, they probably just would have done the usual piss test.

"Prior to fighting Fedor Emelianenko in February 2011, Silva underwent a battery of tests ordered by the New Jersey Athletic Control Board, which wanted to ensure his condition (acromegaly) didn’t endanger him inside the cage." -- this makes me think that if he had elevated testosterone and/or PEDs in his system for the Fedor fight, those would have been found by this "battery of tests".

http://mmajunkie.com/2013/12/antoni...-post-fight-drug-test-stripped-of-50000-bonus

(10th paragraph down)

Bottom line is that Bigfoot passed the same tests Fedor did and then some. And Bigfoot was in the same condition for that fight as when Cormier and Cain walked right through him.

LOL He had already been suspended prior way prior to that for a PED ( stanozolol ? ) whe he was fighting in Cage Rage and also Boldenone in 2008 so yeah maybe he had no exemption but he was certainly already juicing.(and then tested positive once again in 2013 against Hunto )
BigFoot is as suspect as Barnett as far as juicing goes..
Or are you trying to tell us a repeated cheater didn't cheat for the biggest fight of his career ?
Hence why he didn't look anywhere like the sluggish zombie he is now without TRT and with improved random testing and cut from 285-290.

 

[ermac88]

I literally JUST said that.

Nobody in this thread is talking about how the weight classes work or why it exists. It's you that's confused LOL

Irony at it's best

You said frame of hw.
That conveys you are confuswd

 

[Steve-French]

LOL He had already been suspended prior way prior to that for a PED ( stanozolol ? ) whe he was fighting in Cage Rage and also Boldenone in 2008 so yeah maybe he had no exemption but he was certainly already juicing.(and then tested positive once again in 2013 against Hunto )
BigFoot is as suspect as Barnett as far as juicing goes..
Or are you trying to tell us a repeated cheater didn't cheat for the biggest fight of his career ?
Hence why he didn't look anywhere like the sluggish zombie he is now without TRT and with improved random testing and cut from 285-290.

Did you not read the first sentence in that post? The shit he got busted for in 2008 was medicine he was taking for the condition. He also had a TRT exemption for the Hunt fight, but went over the allowed levels.

One thing that doesn't get brought up is that he had a second operation on his pituitary gland after his first fight with Hunt which has fucked with his T levels ever since. I'm not saying the dude is innocent, but he does have a legit hormonal condition.

 

[bad_k]

You said frame of hw.
That conveys you are confuswd

Yes I've talked about his frame of longest reach at HW and his mass of 240lb of walk around weight.

Literally nobody is talking about weight classes for the sport like you kept going on about.

Don't be confused.

 

[bad_k]

The position was that they had the SKILL to utilize their physique and it was that SKILL that made them the dominant champ they were just like Jones.

the physique takes a far back seat to the skill and that is why you get dominant champs who come in all sorts of shape's and sizes.

It's never a one way street. Someone with all the skills will not be an awful fighter just because of physical disadvantages and a guy with all the physical advantages aren't going to be a great fighter with no skills.

This is the entire premise of the whole discussion.

Jon Jones is extremely talented and he damn sure knows how to manipulate his extreme record breaking reach.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

People have been questioning Jones 12-year old girl-like test levels for years.

The difference is that in Pride it was a level playing field. Are you trying to say that Pride allowed steroids... but only for Fedor? That he was the only one using them? Because that would be the only way that they would give him an advantage.

Also, Fedor has more top 10 wins than Jon Jones... and he did it at openweight.

I fully expect you to resort to name-calling now because you will have nothing factual to actually dispute this with.

Ironically of course Fedor actually fought several of the most likely HW's when it came to potential steroid use in Coleman, Randleman and Fujita.

 

[ermac88]

Yes I've talked about his frame of longest reach at HW and his mass of 240lb of walk around weight.

Literally nobody is talking about weight classes for the sport like you kept going on about.

Don't be confused.

Again you keep talking about reach

And again ill inform you that combat sports are categorized into weight classes.
Weight, not height or reach but weight because weight is deemed an advantage in combat sports hot height or reach but weight.

Hence the implementation of "weight classes"

 

[bad_k]

Again you keep talking about reach

And again ill inform you that combat sports are categorized into weight classes.
Weight, not height or reach but weight because weight is deemed an advantage in combat sports hot height or reach but weight.

Hence the implementation of "weight classes"

Yes I'm talking about reach nobody is talking about your weight classes.

Let this sink in.

 

[fatlipjesus]

Ironically of course Fedor actually fought several of the most likely HW's when it came to potential steroid use in Coleman, Randleman and Fujita.

Even more ironic is the fact that people are pointing out that he OBVIOUSLY was cheating because he's a Russian.

Meanwhile, they ignore the facts that every single American that Fedor ever fought has either been busted or is closely linked to PED use.

Tim Sylvia - steroids
Mark Coleman - steroids
Randleman - steroids
Lindland - Chael Sonnen's manager, so yeah, probably about 10 different steroids
Monson - steroids
Herring - steroids
Dan Henderson - TRT replacement because he had low testosterone.... considering he fought in Japan for years as well, we obviously know why.

 

[ermac88]

Yes I'm talking about reach nobody is talking about your weight classes.

Let this sink in.

Let this sink in-
Combat sports are categorized into weight classes because reach IS NOT deemed an advantage in combat sports, henceforth the distinction of weight

 

[MikeMcMann]

It's never a one way street. Someone with all the skills will not be an awful fighter just because of physical disadvantages and a guy with all the physical advantages aren't going to be a great fighter with no skills.

This is the entire premise of the whole discussion.

Jon Jones is extremely talented and he damn sure knows how to manipulate his extreme record breaking reach.

In this young sport of MMA it simply has not been proven that being overly lanky compared to your peers is a more advantageous body style then say one that is the typically grappler body style, being more stout.

If a new season of TUF starts and you have guys with a Fedor or Matt Hughes like build or a Jones, Kendell Grove build people are not racing out to bet the farm on the lanky guys.

For all of the early years of this sport the lanky guys were kind of mocked. 'Look at those long skinny arms and legs. Snap em.'

Seems that as soon as one guy with that lanky build breaks through some suggest it is some type of crazy advantage that requires less skill to win with. And nothing yet backs that up. In fact it appears to be the opposite. It appears to be a body style few can over come and be successful with and those that do , do so due to a required higher level of skill.

 

[bad_k]

Let this sink in-
Combat sports are categorized into weight classes because reach IS NOT deemed an advantage in combat sports, henceforth the distinction of weight

Obviously you don't watch any combat sports.

In each and every single tale of the tape before all the fights the commentator will reveal the number of '"reach advantage" the fighter has over his opponent.

 

[bad_k]

In this young sport of MMA it simply has not been proven that being overly lanky compared to your peers is a more advantageous body style then say one that is the typically grappler body style, being more stout.

If a new season of TUF starts and you have guys with a Fedor or Matt Hughes like build or a Jones, Kendell Grove build people are not racing out to bet the farm on the lanky guys.

For all of the early years of this sport the lanky guys were kind of mocked. 'Look at those long skinny arms and legs. Snap em.'

Seems that as soon as one guy with that lanky build breaks through some suggest it is some type of crazy advantage that requires less skill to win with. And nothing yet backs that up. In fact it appears to be the opposite. It appears to be a body style few can over come and be successful with and those that do , do so due to a required higher level of skill.

It has already been proven.

The man with the record breaking reach in the history of the sport is dominating.

We are not talking about guys with similar builds of Fedor or Matt Hughes. There is simply nobody else built like Jon Jones, thus there is no other comparison. He is an exception of the human physique.

When you have a record breaking limb length it can either hinder you or excel you, when Jon Jones is considered by many the p4p best fighter in the world... then that debate goes out the window.

 

[ermac88]

Obviously you don't watch any combat sports.

In each and every single tale of the tape before all the fights the commentator will reveal the number of '"reach advantage" the fighter has over his opponent.

Its not an advantage enough to deem a category equivalent to weight classes and body mass.


And considering most of the tall lanky mma fighter actually suck or do poorly, it could be viewed as a disadvantage.

 

[bad_k]

Its not an advantage enough to deem a category equivalent to weight classes and body mass.

Nobody has considered this idea in the entire history of this thread.

 

[ermac88]

It has already been proven.

The man with the record breaking reach in the history of the sport is dominating.

We are not talking about guys with similar builds of Fedor or Matt Hughes. There is simply nobody else built like Jon Jones, thus there is no other comparison. He is an exception of the human physique.

When you have a record breaking limb length it can either hinder you or excel you, when Jon Jones is considered by many the p4p best fighter in the world... then that debate goes out the window.

It has already been proven.

The man with the record breaking reach in the history of the sport is dominating.

We are not talking about guys with similar builds of Fedor or Matt Hughes. There is simply nobody else built like Jon Jones, thus there is no other comparison. He is an exception of the human physique.

When you have a record breaking limb length it can either hinder you or excel you, when Jon Jones is considered by many the p4p best fighter in the world... then that debate goes out the window.

Every one of these fighters (and the facts) emphatically disagree with you-

 

[bad_k]

Which one of these guys has a record breaking reach in the history of the game?

Also what the hell does these guys have anything to do with you bringing up this fantasy idea of replacing weight classes with the length of reach that nobody else has suggested before?

 

[MikeMcMann]

It has already been proven.

The man with the record breaking reach in the history of the sport is dominating.

We are not talking about guys with similar builds of Fedor or Matt Hughes. There is simply nobody else built like Jon Jones, thus there is no other comparison. He is an exception of the human physique.

When you have a record breaking limb length it can either hinder you or excel you, when Jon Jones is considered by many the p4p best fighter in the world... then that debate goes out the window.

False.

Again you have no proof that his build is not one that is disadvantageous and that requires far more skill to overcome and thus he has no advantage in his frame and all his advantage is in his higher skill level.

If I start a new sport tomorrow and 10,000 athletes all play it and the top 10 guys are comprised of 9 guys build like Cain and 1 guy built like Jones then you cannot say the Jones build is advantageous. Logic would dictate the Cain like build is unless you are going to assume that all 9 guys just got freakish skill. It is far more likely the exception (Jones build) is the one overcoming with a higher skill if few other athletes are able to repeat even when given that build.

 

[bad_k]

False.

Again you have no proof that his build is not one that is disadvantageous and that requires far more skill to overcome and thus he has no advantage in his frame and all his advantage is in his higher skill level.

If I start a new sport tomorrow and 10,000 athletes all play it and the top 10 guys are comprised of 9 guys build like Cain and 1 guy built like Jones then you cannot say the Jones build is advantageous. Logic would dictate the Cain like build is unless you are going to assume that all 9 guys just got freakish skill. It is far more likely the exception (Jones build) is the one overcoming with a higher skill if few other athletes are able to repeat even when given that build.

You literally just laid out a false equivalent scenario.

9 guys normal limb length and 1 guy Jones length? You do realize that there is a LESS chance for any small subset of group to take a lead, this is basic statistic.

This is like saying asians are known to be smart in math but you want to disprove it so you bring 9 white math students and 1 asian student and see who has the highest score. If there are more than few white students with grade just as good or higher than the asian guy you would say white guys are better at math lol

bad statistic is bad.

There are many good fighters with regular sized limbs because there are simply more of them.

 

[MikeMcMann]

You literally just laid out a false equivalent scenario.

9 guys normal limb length and 1 guy Jones length? You do realize that there is a LESS chance for any small subset of group to take a lead, this is basic statistic.

This is like saying asians are known to be smart in math but you want to disprove it so you bring 9 white math students and 1 asian student and see who has the highest score. If there are more than few white students with grade just as good or higher than the asian guy you would say white guys are better at math lol

bad statistic is bad.

There are many good fighters with regular sized limbs because there are simply more of them.

Oh man you are so dumb. Back to mocking you.

So in all sports every once in a while an attribute succeeds that is not the norm.
So a small subset of shorter people might make it big time in the NBA, NFL or other pro sports.

By your logic they then have the most advantageous frames because (and I am laughing at you now) they are a smaller subset making it. lol.

NO. What it means statistically is that you will see people with those dimensions make it far less often because it takes far more time (with the smaller numbers) for a skilled enough one to make it.

I can cite all sorts of examples if you need it but really why bother since you are too dumb to understand.

It the ranks of bigger guys (the norm) in the NBA, NFL, NHL etc who have the advantageous body frame and it takes an exceptional guy with a different build to break through.