Jon either has the worst management in the sport or doesn't want the fight

[krelianx]

Aww so cute when haters get defensive...

Who the fuck are you to judge what is preposterous to ask?
Are you ANY authority on the subject? Do you even fucking know exactly how much fighters make (including UFC's famous locker room bonuses and all?)
Do you know what is in Jon's contract right now? do you know his options? do you know UFC's options?
You do not. You make assumptions and bash a fighter for trying to get paid more, in a sport where it was proven many times over that the owners give almost NOTHING of the profits to the fighters.
You, my little dumbass, is a big part of the problem of why fighters don't get paid more.
Because you in all your righteousness outrage beat on the fighter, instead of the promotion, and pressure them to accept less money.

So please don't try to explain yourself on something you are completely clueless about, and are just sucking up to the UFC because they cry it is too much, but you have no idea if it is or not.
Heck, you probably just think it is a "big number", and you compare with your pathetic life, and know you will never make such amount, so your hate/envy/outrage kick in.
How DARE Jon ask for so much money??? Poor Dana White !!!

You are an utter hypocrite. You claim I have no authority on the subject and cannot judge whether Jones is asking for too much, but then say it is a problem that fighters don't get paid more. Simply because you think "standing on the side of the fighter" makes you somehow more righteous. But the truth is you are a fucking hypocrite: you are judging yourself that fighters are being underpaid, and you are neither an expert, nor know the very same facts you claimed I ought to know.

I didn't claim to know how much fighters make, what is in Jon's contract, his options, or the UFC's options. We do know per his own testimony he makes 5m+ per fight. We know he was offered 15m and that it wasn't considered enough. We know how many ppvs has sold, relative to other fighters. We know from the lawsuit declarations revenue and expanse numbers for UFC events including gross fighter pay, percentile of fighter pay to fighters. Nothing about what I said hinges upon that.

I was saying why drawing an equivalence between Wilder and Jon is to misunderstand their respective models, and why it might not be in the UFC's best interest to make that fight for that price, since Jon seems to only want to fight for big numbers and without viable big fights after Ngannou he could stall the division. Skipping Jones enables them to build Ngannou and get the division moving.

But you, self-admittedly, didn't read what I posted. Which makes you, once more a hypocrite: you accuse me for speaking without knowing, but you yourself presume to know (wrongly) what I said without having read.

The most pathetic part about you is that you are all the things you criticize.

 

[Shaddows]

You are an utter hypocrite. You claim I have no authority on the subject and cannot judge whether Jones is asking for too much, but then say it is a problem that fighters don't get paid more. Simply because you think "standing on the side of the fighter" makes you somehow more righteous. But the truth is you are a fucking hypocrite: you are judging yourself that fighters are being underpaid, and you are neither an expert, nor know the very same facts you claimed.

I didn't claim to know how much fighters make, what is in Jon's contract, his options, or the UFC's options. We do know per his own testimony he makes 5m+ per fight. We know he was offered 15m and that it wasn't considered enough. We know how many ppvs has sold, relative to other fighters. We know from the lawsuit declarations revenue and expanse numbers for UFC events including gross fighter pay, percentile of fighter pay to fighters. Nothing about what I said hinges upon that.

I was saying why drawing an equivalence between Wilder and Jon is to misunderstand their respective models, and why it might not be in the UFC's best interest to make that fight for that price, since Jon seems to only want to fight for big numbers and without viable big fights after Ngannou he could stall the division. Skipping Jones enables them to build Ngannou and get the division moving.

But you, self-admittedly, didn't read what I posted. Which makes you, once more a hypocrite: you accuse me for speaking without knowing, but you yourself presume to know (wrongly) what I said without having read.

The most pathetic part about you is that you are all the things you criticize.

I had to stop reading, because you remind me of that saying: "when you die, you don't know you are dead. It is everyone around you that suffers because you are dead. This is the same thing when you are too fucking stupid".
It seems you think we are in equal footing. We are not.

You see kid, we do know for example how much Mayweather's guaranteed disclosed paycheck was ($100 million) and McGregor's guaranteed disclosed paycheck ($30 million). And that was a profitable fight... with guaranteed 130 Millions... guaranteed!
And here's one fighter... the biggest star UFC Currently has that are still active and at the top asking for the lower end (30 million). If anything, that allows for the obviously lower PPV numbers they will get. But then again, you seem to forget that PPV alone are chump change when you add the guaranteed money UFC makes for TV deals worldwide.

So you see, my little retard, it does seem I know far more than you do, and while Jon's request might be a lot for the current MMA standards, in the great scheme of things, he is right to fight for his own salary, something you fucking think to forget. This is not YOUR salary, so you don't have a fucking say in it.
And if anyone is a hypocrite, it is the guy who would fight for better pay (if you were in his position), but demand Jon to just accept whatever the UFC wants to pay him.

 

[krelianx]

I had to stop reading, because you remind me of that saying: "when you die, you don't know you are dead. It is everyone around you that suffers because you are dead. This is the same thing when you are too fucking stupid".
It seems you think we are in equal footing. We are not.

You see kid, we do know for example how much Mayweather's guaranteed disclosed paycheck was ($100 million) and McGregor's guaranteed disclosed paycheck ($30 million). And that was a profitable fight... with guaranteed 130 Millions... guaranteed!
And here's one fighter... the biggest star UFC Currently has that are still active and at the top asking for the lower end (30 million). If anything, that allows for the obviously lower PPV numbers they will get. But then again, you seem to forget that PPV alone are chump change when you add the guaranteed money UFC makes for TV deals worldwide.

So you see, my little retard, it does seem I know far more than you do, and while Jon's request might be a lot for the current MMA standards, in the great scheme of things, he is right to fight for his own salary, something you fucking think to forget. This is not YOUR salary, so you don't have a fucking say in it.
And if anyone is a hypocrite, it is the guy who would fight for better pay (if you were in his position), but demand Jon to just accept whatever the UFC wants to pay him.

So what are your credentials? Do you have a BA, MA, or PhD in sports or journalism or economics?

What gives you the right to say I do not know but you do, if you haven't read what I wrote?

We also know disclosed paychecks for Khabib/Conor, Khabib/Poirier, etc. We know a lot.

Jones is not the biggest star in the UFC, Conor is.

I explicitly mentioned that PPV sales is not a sufficient metric to quantify relative value, and mentioned the revenue tv deals, among other things. And using the same metric, it is a bad comparison to make with boxing, because the latter is far more consolidated worldwide:

"Quoting Wilder or Fury's guaranteed purses relative to PPV sales makes one lose all credibility, because it doesn't even understand the boxing economic model.

Boxing is far more consolidated globally, as it always been, since it has been around forever, and it is a far more legitimized and established sport. The amount of revenue they generate from tv, sponsorships, media, product placement, and sales globally dwarfs the UFC, and anyone who doesn't have a peanut for a brain knows this. The amount of money that Wilder generates is not even in the same ballpark compared to Jon Jones. This is natural: they have been around for far, far longer, and the UFC is still penetrating key markets. New York just happened a few years ago for crying out loud. There is not a single major economy that doesn't have substantial deals for boxing broadcasts, whether through ppv or tv (mostly the latter). Even in the developing world: freaking Peru has had a ppv model for big boxing events since the eighties. The UFC, for all its success, is still a developing sport that is growing its global market at an aggressive but consistent pace."

You are right, we are not on the same footing. I am actually a university professor, a PhD, and have published on financial models in sports.

 

[Bojka]

Some people don't understand that it's not about raw PPV buys when comparing pay. It's about PPV buys above certain thresholds.

The UFC has certain costs for every event. And every card will sell a baseline amount regardless of how crappy it is. Your worth is determined by how much you can elevate buys above that threshold.

So when comparing Conor to Jones, you don't compare 1.5 mil to 600k or whatever. You compare the values above the relevant thresholds. This could be more like 1.2 mil vs 300k above a 300k threshold.

 

[PokerMage]

I dont like Jon at all. Never cheered for him except when he fought Vitor and Shogun.

But he should be looking to get paid.

People dont get the online digital economic market now, there is more digital money being made off the fighter's and there likeness then what the gate brings in.

id love to see an audit of how much money a card actually generates when all money brought is counted.

Fighter's are getting screwed worse now % wise then 20-30 year's ago when there wasnt so many revenue stream's. There a multi Billion dollar enterprise now with many tentacle's of revenue generated away from the card itself thou still generated off it that isnt even included when they talk how much many PPV buy's did it get.

Fighter's eventually will wake up and at least want a % of that in-direct revenue stream that the UFC makes off of them. shit every banner with a fighter's likeness....

 

[PokerMage]

There is a reason Dana just got a big bonus, cause he kept the revenue streams coming in and found a way to keep goin when so many businesses were forced to shut.

they got a few exemptions given to them and for sure some xtra donations were made.

and you always here about those back room bonuses.....

 

[DespicablePeep]

You are an utter hypocrite. You claim I have no authority on the subject and cannot judge whether Jones is asking for too much, but then say it is a problem that fighters don't get paid more. Simply because you think "standing on the side of the fighter" makes you somehow more righteous. But the truth is you are a fucking hypocrite: you are judging yourself that fighters are being underpaid, and you are neither an expert, nor know the very same facts you claimed I ought to know.

I didn't claim to know how much fighters make, what is in Jon's contract, his options, or the UFC's options. We do know per his own testimony he makes 5m+ per fight. We know he was offered 15m and that it wasn't considered enough. We know how many ppvs has sold, relative to other fighters. We know from the lawsuit declarations revenue and expanse numbers for UFC events including gross fighter pay, percentile of fighter pay to fighters. Nothing about what I said hinges upon that.

I was saying why drawing an equivalence between Wilder and Jon is to misunderstand their respective models, and why it might not be in the UFC's best interest to make that fight for that price, since Jon seems to only want to fight for big numbers and without viable big fights after Ngannou he could stall the division. Skipping Jones enables them to build Ngannou and get the division moving.

But you, self-admittedly, didn't read what I posted. Which makes you, once more a hypocrite: you accuse me for speaking without knowing, but you yourself presume to know (wrongly) what I said without having read.

The most pathetic part about you is that you are all the things you criticize.

Not even worth reading such idiocy

 

[avenue94]

"Quoting Wilder or Fury's guaranteed purses relative to PPV sales makes one lose all credibility, because it doesn't even understand the boxing economic model.

Boxing is far more consolidated globally, as it always been, since it has been around forever, and it is a far more legitimized and established sport. The amount of revenue they generate from tv, sponsorships, media, product placement, and sales globally dwarfs the UFC, and anyone who doesn't have a peanut for a brain knows this. The amount of money that Wilder generates is not even in the same ballpark compared to Jon Jones. This is natural: they have been around for far, far longer, and the UFC is still penetrating key markets. New York just happened a few years ago for crying out loud. There is not a single major economy that doesn't have substantial deals for boxing broadcasts, whether through ppv or tv (mostly the latter). Even in the developing world: freaking Peru has had a ppv model for big boxing events since the eighties. The UFC, for all its success, is still a developing sport that is growing its global market at an aggressive but consistent pace."

Why are you acting like the UFC doesn't have international distribution deals they make a shit ton of money off. There's a reason WME bragged in their roadshow video about the UFC having its best year for international sales in 2020.

Some people don't understand that it's not about raw PPV buys when comparing pay. It's about PPV buys above certain thresholds.

The UFC has certain costs for every event. And every card will sell a baseline amount regardless of how crappy it is. Your worth is determined by how much you can elevate buys above that threshold.

So when comparing Conor to Jones, you don't compare 1.5 mil to 600k or whatever. You compare the values above the relevant thresholds. This could be more like 1.2 mil vs 300k above a 300k threshold.

You are aware that the UFC currently pulls in about 30 million per PPV without selling a single PPV buy or ticket, right? And that PPVs are pretty cheap to put on for the UFC?

 

[pamirec]

Jones is being smart. It’s either the UFC will end up paying him good, well obviously not the amount he is asking for, but still his best payday, or they’ll refuse. He is fine with both.

 

[Bojka]

Why are you acting like the UFC doesn't have international distribution deals they make a shit ton of money off. There's a reason WME bragged in their roadshow video about the UFC having its best year for international sales in 2020.

You are aware that the UFC currently pulls in about 30 million per PPV without selling a single PPV buy or ticket, right? And that PPVs are pretty cheap to put on for the UFC?

How much does that number change if they have a big headliner or not? And how much does Conor move it from its baseline compared to Jones? That's the relevant variable. We are still wanting to compare how much different guys 'move the needle' as Dana would say. And Conor probably moves it several times more than Jones.

 

[avenue94]

How much does that number change if they have a big headliner or not? And how much does Conor move it from its baseline compared to Jones? That's the relevant variable. We are still wanting to compare how much different guys 'move the needle' as Dana would say. And Conor probably moves it several times more than Jones.

If they have a big headliner and the PPV gets past a certain number of buys, ESPN and UFC start splitting profits. What that split is like is anyone's guess, other than presumably it's more revenue annually than the UFC got from PPVs in past years, but less than their best year.

And again, people bring up Conor as if he's not underpaid (probably the most underpaid by relative terms).

 

[Shaddows]

So what are your credentials? Do you have a BA, MA, or PhD in sports or journalism or economics?

What gives you the right to say I do not know but you do, if you haven't read what I wrote?

We also know disclosed paychecks for Khabib/Conor, Khabib/Poirier, etc. We know a lot.

Jones is not the biggest star in the UFC, Conor is.

I explicitly mentioned that PPV sales is not a sufficient metric to quantify relative value, and mentioned the revenue tv deals, among other things. And using the same metric, it is a bad comparison to make with boxing, because the latter is far more consolidated worldwide:

"Quoting Wilder or Fury's guaranteed purses relative to PPV sales makes one lose all credibility, because it doesn't even understand the boxing economic model.

Boxing is far more consolidated globally, as it always been, since it has been around forever, and it is a far more legitimized and established sport. The amount of revenue they generate from tv, sponsorships, media, product placement, and sales globally dwarfs the UFC, and anyone who doesn't have a peanut for a brain knows this. The amount of money that Wilder generates is not even in the same ballpark compared to Jon Jones. This is natural: they have been around for far, far longer, and the UFC is still penetrating key markets. New York just happened a few years ago for crying out loud. There is not a single major economy that doesn't have substantial deals for boxing broadcasts, whether through ppv or tv (mostly the latter). Even in the developing world: freaking Peru has had a ppv model for big boxing events since the eighties. The UFC, for all its success, is still a developing sport that is growing its global market at an aggressive but consistent pace."

You are right, we are not on the same footing. I am actually a university professor, a PhD, and have published on financial models in sports.

kid, you are too fucking stupid to discuss anything.
Yes, Conor is the bigger star, but he is not winning as of late, is him? So there goes your asinine argument.

I don't need any credentials. I gave you facts.

The fact that simple logic confuses you makes is plain simple that you are clueless.

 

[krelianx]

kid, you are too fucking stupid to discuss anything.
Yes, Conor is the bigger star, but he is not winning as of late, is him? So there goes your asinine argument.

I don't need any credentials. I gave you facts.

The fact that simple logic confuses you makes is plain simple that you are clueless.

Let's do this:

1) Tell me what degrees you attained in your educational life.
2) What you work in.
3) How much you make a year.
4) What you have published related to sports financial models.

And then we can measure our relative intellectual capacities and "authorities" to speak of the subject.

 

[Shaddows]

Let's do this:

1) Tell me what degrees you attained in your educational life.
2) What you work in.
3) How much you make a year.
4) What you have published related to sports financial models.

And then we can measure our relative intellectual capacities and "authorities" to speak of the subject.

Kid, you are beyond any help.
Asking an anonymous guy in the internet about specifics, like even if I posted anything, you would believe it (or have a way to prove it right or wrong)...

You are far too stupid, kid. Your asinine posts are plenty of proof.
No more needs to be said.