Movies JOKER v.3 (Dragonlord's Review)

[bubbleboyjones]

As for this movie;
I'm having a tough time thinking of an actual score for this movie but I think this movie is really good at least for a first viewing in a theater. I disagree with any low scores because honestly there is so much garbage that comes out every year that I can't not see how this isn't better than the majority of them(maybe not all but something clearly on the upper echelon based on acting and cinematography alone).

As I predicted in an earlier thread the trailers spoiled things....

Spoiler

First of all the beginning shots of the movie are all from the trailers so immediately I'm in the mindset of "I've seen this multiple times". In fact the trailers are almost like a summary of the movie from beginning to end. Trailer starts off with the psychiatrist, then mom's apt, then kids kicking his ass, then Zazie Beetz love story, then stand up, then the subway fight ...etc.

In fact here's how much they spoiled the subway thing.

I had a debate with a Sherdogger over this all the way back in April where I was saying they literally laid out that entire subway sequence showing the moment where Arthur essentially snaps into the Joker by beating the shit out of them or killing them

https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/150920099/

 

[armbarforhire]

I figured the dance he was doing is a specific type of dance

I've been meaning to look into it

Would be interesting to know if it has some meaning deeper behind it.

I liked the scenes with Arthur in a metamorphosis kinda way (as did Phoenix overall body twisting thingy for that same reason), but dont feel like they actually fit the final Joker persona.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

Have you considered the modern social justice slant? Bruce Wayne might be considered the "White, Christian Male" or stereotypical "White Privilege" character, whereas Joker (although white) represents all who are oppressed. In that light, all classic Hero's represent injustice in one way or another because they uphold the system (and cultures) of oppression.

As in this film, the antithesis becomes the thesis.

Yeah, the thought did occur to me that if a Batman does emerge, it would be an interesting concept if he champions the rich and privileged while Joker is the anarchist anti-hero representing the poor and oppressed.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

I figured the dance he was doing is a specific type of dance

I've been meaning to look into it

Would be interesting to know if it has some meaning deeper behind it.

I liked the scenes with Arthur in a metamorphosis kinda way (as did Phoenix overall body twisting thingy for that same reason), but dont feel like they actually fit the final Joker persona.

My theory of Joker's dance is that it started as Tai chi due to Fleck's mental problems. In the past, he learns Tai chi to de-stress and remain calm under pressure. But as his mental state deteriorates and his Joker persona slowly surfaces, his Tai chi movements also becomes corrupt and twisted, becoming like a mad contortionist maestro.

When he was at the public restroom, he was panicking after what he did. So he sort of did the Tai chi moves to calm himself but as he was doing it, he felt good about what he did and it sort of transformed into a celebratory dance.

 

[armbarforhire]

As for this movie;
I'm having a tough time thinking of an actual score for this movie but I think this movie is really good at least for a first viewing in a theater. I disagree with any low scores because honestly there is so much garbage that comes out every year that I can't not see how this isn't better than the majority of them(maybe not all but something clearly on the upper echelon based on acting and cinematography alone).

As I predicted in an earlier thread the trailers spoiled things....

Spoiler

First of all the beginning shots of the movie are all from the trailers so immediately I'm in the mindset of "I've seen this multiple times". In fact the trailers are almost like a summary of the movie from beginning to end. Trailer starts off with the psychiatrist, then mom's apt, then kids kicking his ass, then Zazie Beetz love story, then stand up, then the subway fight ...etc.

In fact here's how much they spoiled the subway thing.

I had a debate with a Sherdogger over this all the way back in April where I was saying they literally laid out that entire subway sequence showing the moment where Arthur essentially snaps into the Joker by beating the shit out of them or killing them

https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/150920099/


View attachment 656251

True, the trailers did tell the whole story

Spoiler

like the talk show host appearance being his final transformation (that scene actually referenced one from DKR) so I think everyone familiar with comics knew something like that was going to happen.

I still expected him to go overboard and kill multiple people there just for giggles, the fact he only killed people that hurt him (at least from his POV) I guess is part of the reason some critics were hard on the film as a apology of violence for incels. He spared the midget but the rest of the victims were kinda a-holes even Thomas Wayne(not directly killed by the Joker) and the mom.

Did he kill

Spoiler

the girl next door and her son

?? I think he didn't, but maybe I missed something.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

My theory of Joker's dance is that it started as Tai chi due to Fleck's mental problems. In the past, he learns Tai chi to de-stress and remain calm under pressure. But as his mental state deteriorates and his Joker persona slowly surfaces, his Tai chi movements also becomes corrupt and twisted, becoming like a mad contortionist maestro.

When he was at the public restroom, he was panicking after what he did. So he sort of did the Tai chi moves to calm himself but as he was doing it, he felt good about what he did and it sort of transformed into a celebratory dance.

I love that

Holy fuck

 

[armbarforhire]

My theory of Joker's dance is that it started as Tai chi due to Fleck's mental problems. In the past, he learns Tai chi to de-stress and remain calm under pressure. But as his mental state deteriorates and his Joker persona slowly surfaces, his Tai chi movements also becomes corrupt and twisted, becoming like a mad contortionist maestro.

When he was at the public restroom, he was panicking after what he did. So he sort of did the Tai chi moves to calm himself but as he was doing it, he felt good about what he did and it sort of transformed into a celebratory dance.

Makes a lot of sense, could be something they cut in those 30 minutes. But I actually think is ok if they did, there is something about Joker doing Taichi that bugs me.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

Update: October 5, 2019

JOKER Opens to $39.9 Million on Friday, Heading for $95 Million U.S. Debut

Security concerns certainly aren't slowing down Joker so far. The dark R-rated supervillain movie lit up the Friday box office with a massive $39.9 million, putting it on course for the biggest October opening of all time with as much as $95 million.

The Warner Bros. pic, directed by Todd Phillips and starring Joaquin Phoenix, easily beat Venom's first Friday last year ($32.5 million). For the full weekend, Venom debuted to $80.3 million domestically to take the October crown.

Overseas, Joker could approach $100 million in its launch. If projections are right, the pic could rake in $190M globally through Sunday, give or take.

Joker has sparked widespread headlines for its nihilistic themes and violence, prompting theaters across the country to ramp up security and warn parents that the film isn't an ordinary superhero pic (the usual DC title card doesn't even appear in the credits).

Nevertheless, interest in the film has only continued to increase, especially among males, who made up nearly 65 percent of Friday ticket buyers, according to PostTrak. Joker played to an ethnically diverse crowd; 42 percent of ticket buyers were Caucasian, followed by Hispanics (25 percent), Asians/Other (17 percent) and African Americans (16 percent). The majority of the audience was between ages 18 and 34. Those under 17 repped 8 percent, normal for an R-rated pic.

Heading into the weekend, tracking showed Joker debuting to $80 million to $84 million. (Warners was more conservative in its forecast, suggesting $75 million to $80 million.) Audiences gave the film a B+ CinemaScore.

Village Roadshow and Bron Studios each have a stake in the film, which cost north of $60 million to produce before marketing.

Joker also opens in earnest overseas timed to its U.S. launch. On Friday it earned an impressive $32.7 million from 73 markets for for a three-day total of $57.2 million.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/box-office-joker-dances-record-13m-previews-1245403

 

[JadeOwl]

My biggest complaint is that the 3rd act "twist" was telegraphed a mile away.

Spoiler

You knew from the second that he answered "yes" to her asking if he had been following her, that she wasn't the real Sophie.

OK, two big problems. First of all, his uncontrollable laughter is caused by a medical condition? A fucking medical condition?! NOOO! It should be caused by his insanity, not any fucking medical condition!

The medical condition he had was psychiatric in nature.

And second, he doesn't kill any innocent people?! He's the fucking Joker, for christ's sake! The Joker's all about killing innocent people! I'll be going into this movie pissed.

Spoiler

He does kill innocent people:

• I'm on the camp that think he did kill Sophie.
• His clown coworker might have been an asshole, but he did nothing to merit killing.
• Ditto Murray. Huge asshole that he may have been, he was still innocent of anything that might've merited getting killed.

Yeah, the thought did occur to me that if a Batman does emerge, it would be an interesting concept if he champions the rich and privileged while Joker is the anarchist anti-hero representing the poor and oppressed.

I look at it differently. Throughout the film Fleck does not give a single fuck about the politics of Gotham.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

I look at it differently. Throughout the film Fleck does not give a single fuck about the politics of Gotham.

I know but I think his viewpoint changed at the end.

 

[KnightTemplar]

My theory of Joker's dance is that it started as Tai chi due to Fleck's mental problems. In the past, he learns Tai chi to de-stress and remain calm under pressure. But as his mental state deteriorates and his Joker persona slowly surfaces, his Tai chi movements also becomes corrupt and twisted, becoming like a mad contortionist maestro.

When he was at the public restroom, he was panicking after what he did. So he sort of did the Tai chi moves to calm himself but as he was doing it, he felt good about what he did and it sort of transformed into a celebratory dance.

 

[Amerikuracana]

I didnt really like Joker's expressionistic dances and that even as Joker his voice sounded too effeminate and insecure,

Phoenix performance maybe better than Ledger, but I actually like Ledgers Jokers the best, Phoenix's always felts like a Joker in the making.

He over did the effeminate at the show. That's true.

 

[armbarforhire]

Spoiler

He does kill innocent people:

• I'm on the camp that think he did kill Sophie.
• His clown coworker might have been an asshole, but he did nothing to merit killing.
• Ditto Murray. Huge asshole that he may have been, he was still innocent of anything that might've merited getting killed.

Technically all of them were innocent (as in not deserving the death penalty), but all the ones that died were at least in Flecks POV guilty, that's why that scene

Spoiler

with the sympathetic midget was so good, we all felt that was the moment he was going to snap

, in the end I think its one of the reasons critics bashed the film, it makes all the killings feel like a vengeance.

 

[Dragonlordxxxxx]

I felt that the more effective kills and more chilling were the ones that happened offscreen or the ones that are ambiguous.

Spoiler

The bloody footprints at the end suggested he killed the psychiatrist/doctor which is the Joker we typically know.

When he left Sophie's apartment, it sort of implied something bad happened to her (mostly due to the doom and gloom score). But I think he didn't kill her or her daughter because there was still some sort of semblance of "justice" within Fleck at this stage as evident with him sparing Gary the next day and he only went after those he felt "wronged" him. But I wouldn't be shocked also if it was revealed he did kill Sophie.

 

[Amerikuracana]

As for this movie;
I'm having a tough time thinking of an actual score for this movie but I think this movie is really good at least for a first viewing in a theater. I disagree with any low scores because honestly there is so much garbage that comes out every year that I can't not see how this isn't better than the majority of them(maybe not all but something clearly on the upper echelon based on acting and cinematography alone).

As I predicted in an earlier thread the trailers spoiled things....

Spoiler

First of all the beginning shots of the movie are all from the trailers so immediately I'm in the mindset of "I've seen this multiple times". In fact the trailers are almost like a summary of the movie from beginning to end. Trailer starts off with the psychiatrist, then mom's apt, then kids kicking his ass, then Zazie Beetz love story, then stand up, then the subway fight ...etc.

In fact here's how much they spoiled the subway thing.

I had a debate with a Sherdogger over this all the way back in April where I was saying they literally laid out that entire subway sequence showing the moment where Arthur essentially snaps into the Joker by beating the shit out of them or killing them

https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/150920099/


View attachment 656251

I got attacked on Facebook by some morons when I complained that the trailer spoiled and showed too much. I did something similar and laid out the sequencing of the movie from the trailer. After I did that, the couple sycophant losers disappeared, and I was pretty much right.

That said, the movie still flowed most of the way through. There wasn't an out of place scene until the show for me. That's a big part of what makes a good movie.

 

[heavyarms21]

I felt that the more effective kills and more chilling were the ones that happened offscreen or the ones that are ambiguous.

Spoiler

The bloody footprints at the end suggested he killed the psychiatrist/doctor which is the Joker we typically know.

When he left Sophie's apartment, it sort of implied something bad happened to her (mostly due to the doom and gloom score). But I think he didn't kill her or her daughter because there was still some sort of semblance of "justice" within Fleck at this stage as evident with him sparing Gary the next day.

If he spared Budget Tyrion then Domino's luck also saved her.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Technically all of them were innocent (as in not deserving the death penalty), but all the ones that died were at least in Flecks POV guilty, that's why that scene

Spoiler

with the sympathetic midget was so good, we all felt that was the moment he was going to snap

, in the end I think its one of the reasons critics bashed the film, it makes all the killings feel like a vengeance.

The first people deserved it.

 

[I'm Shawn Spencer]

a Film Theory and Pitch Meetings crossover

 

[LATEXXX COMMANDO]

The first people deserved it.

They got what they fucking deserved!

 

[SamSchmidt]

Thats not true and that doesn't work with all the characters. Their first mistake was making Superman dark and everything else sucked from that point on.

Fuck that. I liked the Dark take on Superman. I'm so sick of these kiddie Disney superhero movies.

Fuck em