Movies JOKER v.3 (Dragonlord's Review)

If you have seen JOKER, how would you rate it?


  • Total voters
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Update: October 3, 2019

Dragonlord’s Review of JOKER
(No Spoilers)

Bottom Line: With an origin story no one asked for nor wanted, Todd Phillips’ Joker is a stylish, gritty, psychological crime drama featuring a tour de force performance by Joaquin Phoenix.

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After the failures of Batman v Superman and Justice League, Warner Bros. decided to de-emphasize their focus on the DC Extended Universe and just use the following principles: Throw anything against the wall and see what sticks and then build a universe around what worked. And so, Todd Phillips’ Joker was born (and possibly DC Dark). Nobody was really clamoring for a Joker origin movie and most of the fans prefer the character’s history to be ambiguous and more of a multiple choice as shown by Alan Moore and Christopher Nolan.

Meant as a standalone tale unrelated to the DCEU, Joker is a realistic origin take on Batman’s arch-nemesis and the tragic circumstances on how he came to be the Clown Prince of Crime. Joaquin Phoenix stars as Arthur Fleck, a mentally-imbalanced aspiring comedian who suffers from a medical condition that causes uncontrollable laughter. When he’s not stalking his female neighbor, he works as a clown and lives with his frail mother. Battered by the cities’ griminess and harshness, abandoned by the system and betrayed by people close to him, Fleck’s descent towards madness threatens to burn everyone around him and change Gotham City forever.

Acquiring some cool cred, hamming it up for the cameras and being mentioned alongside Nicholson and Ledger, Joker is one of those iconic roles every character actor dreams of landing. Phoenix gives a brilliant, evocative performance that will likely earn him an Oscar nomination (or win) next year. Aside from his incredibly nuanced and emotionally powerful acting, Phoenix transforms himself physically to an emaciated bod worthy of Christian Bale in The Machinist. There are so many compelling little details Phoenix imparts with that people will surely dissect and discuss his performance for years to come. One particular behavior I found to be fascinating is Fleck’s slow victory dance which in my mind originated as a Tai Chi but evolved into something more creepy and sinister.

Just like Hans Zimmer’s score played an instrumental part in The Dark Knight’s success, Hildur Guðnadóttir’s haunting score packs the film with ominous feelings of dread which captivates the audience at even the most mundane scene. With Joker’s story set roughly around 1981, Lawrence Sher’s dazzling cinematography captures the dour urban decay of that era. The atmospheric look is fitting since Phillips’ drew inspiration from Taxi Driver, The King of Comedy and a few other films and pretty cool for Robert De Niro to be part of the cast as he was the star in the two films mentioned.

What could have made Joker into a truly disturbing piece of cinema is if the murders onscreen weren’t just restricted to victims that “had it coming.” It sort of becomes a bit predictable on who’s going to die and where the plot is heading based on the movies it drew upon. The movie goes out its way to make the audience sympathize with underdog Fleck and make them cheer when he finally transforms in full Joker mode. On one hand, making the Joker into a pitying anti-hero is fine, but on the other hand this is the Joker we are talking about; He is supposed to be a destructive force of nature, evil incarnate to some if you will, not someone you should be rooting for.

Overall, Joaquin Phoenix’s outstanding Oscar-worthy performance is a must-see, catapulting Joker alongside Logan and Watchmen in the list of top R-rated comic book movies ever made.

Preliminary Rating: 8/10
Have you considered the modern social justice slant? Bruce Wayne might be considered the "White, Christian Male" or stereotypical "White Privilege" character, whereas Joker (although white) represents all who are oppressed. In that light, all classic Hero's represent injustice in one way or another because they uphold the system (and cultures) of oppression.

As in this film, the antithesis becomes the thesis.
 
I disagree with that. But it's an opinion thing, and honestly I think you may be in the majority with the youtube/gif thing. Phoenix moments were deeper, and would resonate with me more, personally.


Something resonating with you personally can't be debated but I agree with him that Ledger's Joker has far more moments that stand out in that aspect. It's been over a decade and the amount of Ledger Joker memes and quotes that get passed around today is as relevant as ever.

Phoenix did an excellent job no doubt and both are acting beasts. This movie has only been out for a few days but you won't have true clarity until years down the road.
 
Will wait till this hits bluray.
Will wait for Netflix, if there is nothing, nothing else available.

The reviews I’ve read, have made me want to see it less and less with each review.

While possibly a “great performance “ the very being of it from reviews goes completely against “The Joker” as we’ve know to “Love”.

And 1981 timeline, really fucks with not only Jokers origin Story, but Batman’s as well.
 
Will wait for Netflix, if there is nothing, nothing else available.

The reviews I’ve read, have made me want to see it less and less with each review.

While possibly a “great performance “ the very being of it from reviews goes completely against “The Joker” as we’ve know to “Love”.

And 1981 timeline, really fucks with not only Jokers origin Story, but Batman’s as well.

Are reviews that important to you? Perhaps you should avoid them since they tend to give you a preconceived idea. I for one avoid reviews all together before seeing a movie and then I’ll take a gander when I do see it to see if people felt the same way that I did.
 
Are reviews that important to you? Perhaps you should avoid them since they tend to give you a preconceived idea. I for one avoid reviews all together before seeing a movie and then I’ll take a gander when I do see it to see if people felt the same way that I did.
If I’m on the fence about watching them yes. But I don’t give a shit if reviewers like the movie or not, spoilers and plot etc let me know if I like where the movies going.

The more tidbits I read on this one, the more I’m out on it.
 
Will wait for Netflix, if there is nothing, nothing else available.

The reviews I’ve read, have made me want to see it less and less with each review.

While possibly a “great performance “ the very being of it from reviews goes completely against “The Joker” as we’ve know to “Love”.

And 1981 timeline, really fucks with not only Jokers origin Story, but Batman’s as well.

Timeline? There literally is zero timeline for any of these comic book stories any more. Zero. Batman came out in the 50s lmao.

Oh, and you should see this in the theatre if you can tell your ass from a hole in the ground concerning real movies. I mean, if you think the movie independence day 2 is better than Fargo or theory of everything, then yeah, maybe wait..
 
For fucks sake people, the early rankings and shit on imdb, rotten tomatoes eventually even themselves out and become more realistic.

Watched it today. Thought it was great. Phoenix was brilliant, the cinematography was beautiful and the use of sound and music to set the tone both caused feelings of uneasiness and humor at time.

Only movie I've seen at the cinema this year. Was not disappointed.

It took a massive shit on all the fucking stupid super hero movies and laughed along the way.

But I guess cause it doesn't have a connected universe or Saturday morning cartoons it must not be as good as captain cape man: green screen extravaganza 4
I wonder why people have to talk this way about people who dont share their tastes
 
I would have written in some kind of plan for the show. Joker hangs with highly powered foes because he ends up diabolical. I would have written in a stolen canister of nitrous from a dentist office that he gasses deniro with to make him laugh uncontrollably, or some tear gas stolen from police if their happened to be a riot going on. The end should have been a more intricate plan. As I've said repeatedly (sorry I've mucked up the thread a little) the movie flowed perfectly until the show.. Some people may even like that scene, but I would have had him really turn into the joker there. What he did still could have happened, but it should have been accompanied by something, and he should have laughed after doing it.

I do write, and that was the only scene I think I could have improved.
thats the thing, he wasn't quite the joker, who would have pulled the gun out and then when he pulled the trigger it would have had a bang! sign and then he would have started laughing and then gas canisters go off and he has a clown gas mask like the riot ones and then killed everyone or they all start laughing manically too, it just wasn't quite comic book enough for me atleast by the very end of it I feel like he should have been powered up somehow enough to fight batman
 
Wrong. If done right, it would make for a better ending. There's generally going to be some redemption somewhere, but Joker actually changes everything.

Most ending can be good/possible if done right. Do I want to see an R rated Batman movie with the Joker. Hell yes. Will I want a version where Batman loses the war to the Joker. I’d watch it but i think most people won’t like it. A world where Batman loses to the Joker completely ain’t what most people want but that’s just my opinion and it’s as correct as yours...
 
First off thank you for sharing your thoughts on the movie.

I'm still on the fence in seeing it in theaters. Even If I did wan't to watch it I'd wait at least month or so that the crowds die down. I hate watching a movie that's completely packed with people. I feel like a canned sardine and my anxiety is terrible in that situation.


I think you are overblowing the crowds unless you are wanting to see this at night on a weekend. I saw an 11am showing at a very popular theater in my area this morning and crowd wasn't bad at all. You have to consider this movie came out on Wednesday at 4pm and it's also rated R so if you're seeing it on off peak hours you'll be fine(unless for some reason your area has overcrowded theaters).
 
I didnt really like Joker's expressionistic dances and that even as Joker his voice sounded too effeminate and insecure,

Phoenix performance maybe better than Ledger, but I actually like Ledgers Jokers the best, Phoenix's always felts like a Joker in the making.
 
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i always thought dc should have gone ultra dark to fight mcus non seriousness and not try to copy them

(their comics are darker anyway)

Thats not true and that doesn't work with all the characters. Their first mistake was making Superman dark and everything else sucked from that point on.
 
I didnt really like Joker's expressionistic dances and that even as Joker his voice sounded too effeminate and insecure,

Phoenix performance maybe better than Ledger, but I actually like Ledgers Jokers the best, Phoenix's always felts like a Joker in the making.

I figured the dance he was doing is a specific type of dance

I've been meaning to look into it
 
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