With the talk show bit it took heavy from King of Comedy...... the imagination n psycho bit I guess taxi driver. It was heavy influenced by him. Not sure if he he would be flattered or pissed.
The part with the Midget towards the end was best part of film ...... both the Midgets reaction and him looking up at the latch n not being able to reach........ felt awkward laughing tho after a dude just got brutally killed.
If DC did more movies like this, they'd be more even keel with Marvel. DC needs to be dark. I realize not every movie can be like Joker, but damn...I enjoyed Joker more than I did Endgame.
Saw it yesterday. While it was far better than I expected, I don't see it (as people hail it to be) as the best movie of 2019. Phoenix is masterful in it and... that's about it. I don't see myself thinking about the movie that often.
1. Story and script are OK, i guess. You want to know how it ends. Yes, some things are foreseeable, but you don't want to miss a single moment of the movie. Of course a bunch of people have their panties in the bunch about actually knowing the Jokers real name and (some of) his family members, but in the end, who cares. Dialogue is rather forgettable. I did like the realistic take, no acid, no supernatural stuff, just the plain, old routine of a guy on an edge being pushed over the edge by his surroundings. I can't say I would sympathize with Joker. I understand, with what was shown, in how he came to be the character he is now, but I wouldn't call him an anti-hero. To the people thinking he
doesn't kill an innocent civilian, isn't the lady in the end, in the hospital, an innocent civilian? He definitely murders her. I like that they left ambiguous the part about the young woman with the kid, I prefer to think she is alive.
2. Character development and acting - To be honest, I don't think there's any room for any other character besides Joker to be developed. The supporting actors did a solid job as far as acting goes, but no one stands out or has any larger role in the movie. If I would have to choose between the performances of Phoenix and Ledger (and I guess I have to, as I just mentioned it), i'd go with Ledger. Both are equally great in their own way, I just have a personal preference for Ledger's take on the legendary character. Ledger's ticks, body language, manners and gestures made the character stand out a bit more than the dancing and cringy laugh by Phoenix. And no, I am not impacted by the fact Ledger is dead. I appreciated that the movie did not present the "just one bad day" thing but more of a gradual transition for Joker. I love the quote, but I would hate to see that "one bad day" thing in a movie, it is a bit cliche.
3. Pacing and tone - good, maybe a tad slowish. At no point during the movie did I feel bored or that something was out of pace. Slow, continuous ride to how Joker came to be. Maybe i'm just impacted by the plethora of fast paced action movies I've being watching lately.
4. Cinematography, including sound and visuals - great. Went with a friend who is a pro photo and video guy and he could not shut up about the visuals (he does have a tendency for this slightly muted visuals). That said, I did find myself thinking "this is the third or fourth time they showed Joker looking through windows of moving vehicles". It's too similar to the iconic Dark knight scene. Soundtrack and score were great (though I did find out that they used a song written by some no name guy who happens to be in prison due to being a . Naturally, twitter is in an uproar about this) and go hand in hand with the narrative of the movie.
7,5/10
The little person not being able to reach door security knob thing was beyond hilarious. The entire theater died at that point.
And no, DC, you don't have to guide us through everything. We got that the girl thing was only in his imagination.
The fact they used a song by a convicted kiddie-fiddler is the only thing I don't like; OK, so Glitter won't be able to access the money while he's in prison, but he's still going to make a shit-ton of royalties. I don't care if the only other choice was a Taylor Swift song. I'd rather the Joker did his iconic stair dance to Delicate than give a phile any money.
The fact they used a song by a convicted kiddie-fiddler is the only thing I don't like; OK, so Glitter won't be able to access the money while he's in prison, but he's still going to make a shit-ton of royalties. I don't care if the only other choice was a Taylor Swift song. I'd rather the Joker did his iconic stair dance to Delicate than give a phile any money.
I know I'm not part of this convo, but this is the first time I've seen someone address this and I was just thinking about how amazing this scene is.
Although I agree with what you're saying overall, conviction of a hasn't stopped arenas and stadiums from playing that song all over the world. Not saying that's ok, but it is what it is.
That scene is going to be so iconic,I believe it'll go down as one of the best in cinematic history. And we're talking about the Joker; a derarranged psychopath who does some of the most disgusting, repugnant crap known to man. It wouldn't be above him to use that song and dance to it. If they're gonna commit to the character, they gotta commit all the way, not just when it's convenient.
I dunno if we're still doing the spoiler thing at this point, but SPOILERS here.
Gotta say that I loved this movie. They did a great job of building up his decent into madness, exploring today's attitudes towards mental illness and class structures, and had a kickass climax. Within doing all this they didn't spell out what they wanted you to think or tell you what you should think, as a lot of it was left up to interpretation. Was Thomas Wayne an asshole or just seen from a crazy guy's manipulated perspective? Did he kill Sophie? Where did some of his delusions begin and end? It's up to you to decide.
I like that this film has right wing people saying it's hateful towards them, and left wing people saying it's hateful towards their cause too. Some people view Joker as the sympathetic anti-hero, who only killed those deserving, where as some view him as a delusional maniac who also killed innocents like possibly Sophie and his psychiatrist at the end.
It had me laughing in parts, and then almost crying in others. It was awesome imo. 10/10
Dozens of movies like this, even in the past decade. Phoenix has been in a few. He has played a bunch of whacky, violent and insecure guys.
It is pretty much his calling card.
Just a couple of years ago he played a depressed impotent guy who turns into a killer, in "Irrational Man". In "The Master" he was a violent ex-army guy suffering from PTSD.
I'm surprised the people threw a fit now, considering that the guy has been playing roles like this for years.
Dozens of movies like this, even in the past decade. Phoenix has been in a few. He has played a bunch of whacky, violent and insecure guys.
It is pretty much his calling card.
Just a couple of years ago he played a depressed impotent guy who turns into a killer, in "Irrational Man". In "The Master" he was a violent ex-army guy suffering from PTSD.
I'm surprised the people threw a fit now, considering that the guy has been playing roles like this for years.
He also played a violent US Army veteran with PTSD/suicidal tendencies in You Were Never Really There in which, also like Joker, he has to care for his ailing mother.
Interesting theory about the middle scenes of the love interest being delusions but a few things don’t add up. How would she know his name or about his mother when he’s in her apartment at the end if they hadn’t been talking all that time. She treated him like a complete stranger in the elevator and didn’t even know his name then. They would have had to have interacted for her to know that stuff.
It's not a theory, it explicitly showed those scenes again and that she wasn't actually there.
It can be assumed she learned his name and that he lives with his mother from being his neighbor for some time, seeing them around, hearing his mother call him by name. She may have already known his name during the elevator scene, nothing really indicates one way or another. She was just making neighborly small talk to break the awkward silence, although she pulled her daughter closer to her so she was already at least a little uncomfortable around him.
The fact they used a song by a convicted kiddie-fiddler is the only thing I don't like; OK, so Glitter won't be able to access the money while he's in prison, but he's still going to make a shit-ton of royalties. I don't care if the only other choice was a Taylor Swift song. I'd rather the Joker did his iconic stair dance to Delicate than give a phile any money.
Don’t see why this movie has so much controversy. It doesn’t glamorize vigilantism. No more than a show like dexter would. Phoenix broke my heart in the movie. Really interesting world that I wanted to explore even more. He seems more happy and normal towards the end as he becomes the joker. It’s a great metamorphosis that Phoenix delivers. . 9 out of 10.
The part with the Midget towards the end was best part of film ...... both the Midgets reaction and him looking up at the latch n not being able to reach........ felt awkward laughing tho after a dude just got brutally killed.
Don’t see why this movie has so much controversy. It doesn’t glamorize vigilantism. No more than a show like dexter would. Phoenix broke my heart in the movie. Really interesting world that I wanted to explore even more. He seems more happy and normal towards the end as he becomes the joker. It’s a great metamorphosis that Phoenix delivers. . 9 out of 10.
I dunno if we're still doing the spoiler thing at this point, but SPOILERS here.
Gotta say that I loved this movie. They did a great job of building up his decent into madness, exploring today's attitudes towards mental illness and class structures, and had a kickass climax. Within doing all this they didn't spell out what they wanted you to think or tell you what you should think, as a lot of it was left up to interpretation. Was Thomas Wayne an asshole or just seen from a crazy guy's manipulated perspective? Did he kill Sophie? Where did some of his delusions begin and end? It's up to you to decide.
I like that this film has right wing people saying it's hateful towards them, and left wing people saying it's hateful towards their cause too. Some people view Joker as the sympathetic anti-hero, who only killed those deserving, where as some view him as a delusional maniac who also killed innocents like possibly Sophie and his psychiatrist at the end.
It had my laughing in parts, and then almost crying in others. It was awesome imo. 10/10
If DC did more movies like this, they'd be more even keel with Marvel. DC needs to be dark. I realize not every movie can be like Joker, but damn...I enjoyed Joker more than I did Endgame.
They should use Batman Begins as their baseline for overall tone. They can veer into TDK/Joker quality in terms of more overall grit and darkness depending on the character/story line.
Dozens of movies like this, even in the past decade. Phoenix has been in a few. He has played a bunch of whacky, violent and insecure guys.
It is pretty much his calling card.
Just a couple of years ago he played a depressed impotent guy who turns into a killer, in "Irrational Man". In "The Master" he was a violent ex-army guy suffering from PTSD.
I'm surprised the people threw a fit now, considering that the guy has been playing roles like this for years.
This film did very much feel like an attempt to shift performances like The Master, You Were Never Rally Here and to some degree even Her into more of a mainstream film. Perhaps that's part of why the reaction has been so much stronger as more people are paying attention to it and perhaps worried about who is actually watching it?
Interesting just where the "Incel" line came in exactly in the media coverage? has it become a kind of catch all term for lone wolf white terrorism? because really the character doesn't display any misogynistic tendency's and indeed doesn't show any racism either. In reality the character becomes an almost inadvertent hero for a extremist class war and I'm wondering whether that is actually why theres been such a fearful reaction from parts of the media?
Perhaps the reaction to it shows just how much Hollywood blockbusters have shifted over the last 20-30 years? I mean you go back to the late 80's and blockbusters with extremely critical views of the capitalist establishment were common, The Robocops, Running Man, etc were showing heroes up against a corrupt capitalist dystopia all the time. That definitely started to decline during the Clinton years in the 90's though with the jingoism in films like ID4. Here you don't exactly have the uprising against the establishment shown in a very positive light yet you also have the establishment itself in Thomas Wayne not shown in the best light either.
They should use Batman Begins as their baseline for overall tone. They can veer into TDK/Joker quality in terms of more overall grit and darkness depending on the character/story line.
As far as the film itself goes I can see the "Taxi Driver for Dummies" line but honestly it felt to me like it was almost deliberately going that route. I'v seen claims that Phoenix's performance "elevated" the film but suspect that was almost intentional? to give us a standard setup of a character descending into madness, unstable guy who lives with his mother in poverty loses his job but allow the performance to take it that bit further. I mean really comic book films have always been focused on archetypes of one kind or another in plot and/or character so almost playing that up seems to make sense.
Perhaps the directors background plays into people not giving the film the benefit of the doubt but honestly I suspect that it was Phoenix who was really the prime creative force in this film, not just delivering a performance to order.
When you have mental illness and/or trauma from mental illness in your life whether it's family, yourself, or your closest friends, it hits home badly imo. Watching somebody in utter despair let down and ignored by anyone and everyone who could have helped, then slowly slip away is just hard to watch in parts.
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. Naturally, twitter is in an uproar about this) and go hand in hand with the narrative of the movie.
