Opinion John Oliver destroying the false prophets

[D Train]

I'm no Osteen fan, his theology is wrong, his attitude is wrong, and he just seems kinda douchey, but I think most of his money comes from books sales.

 

[Bukowski82]

Except not really. Its one thing to ask for a modest donation and pass around a box to put it in and another to aggressively ask for hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars with a specific emphasis on those who are incredibly vulnerable for some reason (terminally ill or lost a loved one).


To be fair, he does sell a lot of books. I was at a Barnes and Noble and there were 4-5 of his books there.

That said I doubt that mansion was paid for only by his book sales.

I'm not sure how you can sport a Sam Harris quote and write the first couple sentences of this post... What do you think he'd say concerning this issue? I know exactly what he'd say...

He'd say that doing work for those who are vulnerable and keeping money intake low enough as to not arouse a lot of anger and the exasperation by the preachers to a minimum is just a tactic used to make it so what I'm doing right now, calling the Charlatans that put on these ridiculous robes and seek to gain your money and control over your life, is socially unacceptable.

Because it is, in fact, the EXACT same thing. They're just better at hiding the scam because they also do things that are respectable and keep the histrionics to a minimum when preaching their nonsense.

But those measures are just to legitimize their scam. You can give and help others without the need for a sky-god and his prophets taking a major chunk of money as well. It's called social work and charity... And people do it all the time. No middleman scamming you out of your hard earned cash needed.

 

[Bukowski82]

I'm no Osteen fan, his theology is wrong, his attitude is wrong, and he just seems kinda douchey, but I think most of his money comes from books sales.

I could go all day, Buddy...

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm not sure how you can sport a Sam Harris quote and write the first couple sentences of this post... What do you think he'd say concerning this issue? I know exactly what he'd say...

He'd say that doing work for those who are vulnerable and keeping money intake low enough as to not arouse a lot of anger and the exasperation by the preachers to a minimum is just a tactic used to make it so what I'm doing right now, calling the Charlatans that put on these ridiculous robes and seek to gain your money and control over your life, is socially unacceptable.

Because it is, in fact, the EXACT same thing. They're just better at hiding the scam because they also do things that are respectable and keep the histrionics to a minimum when preaching their nonsense.

But those measures are just to legitimize their scam. You can give and help others without the need for a sky-god and his prophets taking a major chunk of money as well. It's called social work.

You're assuming every preacher is an unbeliever purposefully scamming people. Do you really believe there aren't honest priests and pastors out there who really believe what they say? Why is the flock delusional but not the Shepard?

 

[thebluerider]

I'm not sure how you can sport a Sam Harris quote and write the first couple sentences of this post... What do you think he'd say concerning this issue? I know exactly what he'd say...

He'd say that doing work for those who are vulnerable and keeping money intake low enough as to not arouse a lot of anger and the exasperation by the preachers to a minimum is just a tactic used to make it so what I'm doing right now, calling the Charlatans that put on these ridiculous robes and seek to gain your money and control over your life, is socially unacceptable.

Because it is, in fact, the EXACT same thing. They're just better at hiding the scam because they also do things that are respectable and keep the histrionics to a minimum when preaching their nonsense.

But those measures are just to legitimize their scam. You can give and help others without the need for a sky-god and his prophets taking a major chunk of money as well. It's called social work and charity... And people do it all the time. No middleman scamming you out of your hard earned cash needed.

the best part about your tirades is what a zealot you are. now there is some sweet irony...preach on true believer!

 

[Bukowski82]

the best part about your tirades is what a zealot you are. now there is some sweet irony...preach on true believer!

Out of all the false equivalence fallacies towards atheists I've heard, this has always been my favorite. That because calling people out on their bullshit is just fine, except when it comes to religion, then it's just projecting, right?

Harris is absolutely right. The most dangerous thing about religion isn't how it scams it's flock, allows people to hate, judge and control or is the leading cause of violence in the world... It's that it's socially protected still, which allows these things to happen.

Nope, I'll call it out wherever I find it. Because it needs to be called out...

And if you're protecting it, then you're just part of the problem. Even if you're not dumb enough to fork over your money to these people.

 

[thebluerider]

Out of all the false equivalence fallacies towards atheists I've heard, this has always been my favorite. That because calling people out on their bullshit is just fine, except when it comes to religion, then it's just projecting, right?

Harris is absolutely right. The most dangerous thing about religion isn't how it scams it's flock, allows people to hate, judge and control or is the leading cause of violence in the world... It's that it's socially protected still, which allows these things to happen.

Nope, I'll call it out wherever I find it. Because it needs to be called out...

And if you're protecting it, then you're just part of the problem. Even if you're not dumb enough to fork over your money to these people.

it's not a false equivalency, you're a rabid atheist. you want to paint all religion with a couple of broad strokes and label it all nefarious, and that's nonsense. you'll never see it, and i don't expect you to, but you have so much in common with religious folks it's hilarious.

 

[Bukowski82]

You're assuming every preacher is an unbeliever purposefully scamming people. Do you really believe there aren't honest priests and pastors out there who really believe what they say? Why is the flock delusional but not the Shepard?

I'll give you that... But there's always a boss getting money somewhere. It's on giant pyramid scheme. Even in that case, Money could be going to help others, instead of letting the people in Rome live the high life and sweep sexual abuse lawsuits under the rug with lawyers.

This is a huge problem, even with best intentions.

 

[Bukowski82]

it's not a false equivalency, you're a rabid atheist. you want to paint all religion with a couple of broad strokes and label it all nefarious, and that's nonsense. you'll never see it, and i don't expect you to, but you have so much in common with religious folks it's hilarious.

Well, I can see it's definitely not a false equivalency now... Because you provided so much evidence and reason behind your claims, instead of just using an ad homenim and claiming I don't see it because I'm unable to somehow.

Now that is hilarious. But we're getting off track... Tell me just exactly how these people everyone is so willing to mock are any different than your local church doing the exact some thing. Id love to hear the difference.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'll give you that... But there's always a boss getting money somewhere. It's on giant pyramid scheme. Even in that case, Money could be going to help others, instead of letting the people in Rome live the high life and sweep sexual abuse lawsuits under the rug with lawyers.

This is a huge problem, even with best intentions.

America is mostly Protestant with many different denominations and local churches that don't have this massive hierarchy like the Vatican does so many times that money just stays in the community where at worst it goes into the pastor's pocket but at best helps the community.

 

[highkicknomore]

Youre telling me Benny Hinn bitchslapping everyone wasnt legit?

Buk definitely has hatred for religion. Majority are probably scams but some help out. When I was a kid, the church would deliver groceries to us. The church was disbanded because of family feuding but they helped out community.

 

[thebluerider]

Well, I can see it's definitely not a false equivalency now... Because you provided so much evidence and reason behind your claims, instead of just using an ad homenim and claiming I don't see it because I'm unable to somehow.

Now that is hilarious. But we're getting off track... Tell me just exactly how these people everyone is so willing to mock are any different than your local church doing the exact some thing. Id love to hear the difference.

i grew up in a nice area, the people in my church were educated and not poor. they liked the community and the moral structure they got from the church. they were willing to pay a reasonable stipend to be a part of it. no one was being exploited, no evil being done in gods name. you are fucking clueless.

America is mostly Protestant with many different denominations and local churches that don't have this massive hierarchy like the Vatican does so many times that money just stays in the community where at worst it goes into the pastor's pocket but at best helps the community.

america is mostly catholic

 

[Islam Imamate]

america is mostly catholic

No, Catholics are the largest single denomination but if you combine all the Protestant denominations they are a slight majority at 51%

The Landscape Survey confirms that the United States is on the verge of becoming a minority Protestant country; the number of Americans who report that they are members of Protestant denominations now stands at barely 51%. Moreover, the Protestant population is characterized by significant internal diversity and fragmentation, encompassing hundreds of different denominations loosely grouped around three fairly distinct religious traditions

 

[Slick_36]

Last time I was going to church somewhat regularly, they pulled this pretty aggressively. It pissed me off. I was probably visibly angry looking up Jesus' quotes on the rich as the preacher was screaming that God wanted them to have riches and wealth now for only the low low price of everything you owned. It was really blatant and I never went back. False prophets are even worse than Bukowski, at least he's honest about his beliefs and means well.

 

[D Train]

I'll give you that... But there's always a boss getting money somewhere. It's on giant pyramid scheme. Even in that case, Money could be going to help others, instead of letting the people in Rome live the high life and sweep sexual abuse lawsuits under the rug with lawyers.

This is a huge problem, even with best intentions.

I really think you're missing how much good churches do and how many people they help. Every pastor isn't Joel Osteen or Joyce Meyers (both of whom teach a version of the prosperity gospel that connects faith with material possessions). The Southern Baptist Convention has one of the largest disaster relief agencies in the U.S. And it's completely funded by people in local churches.
Most major denominations are involved in really cool "social justice" projects literally all over the world. Again, those projects (digging wells, building schools, conducting medical clinics, proving care for orphans, etc) are all funded by the local church.
Of course there is, for us, a more important spiritual component. I realize you don't agree with that and have even mocked it in this thread. That's ok. Just know that most churches are filled with good, though admittedly flawed people, who are sincerely trying to put into practice the tennants of our faith. I know we don't always get it right and that makes us an easy target, but we genuinely love people and want to serve our communities.

 

[RawHawg]

If you want to get some of the most bizarre snail mail you have ever received in your life, sign up for the "prophet" peter popoff's mailing list. You will get all kinds of letters and items for free, and when I say these are the ramblings of a madman I am understating it. That this man has been able to rebuild his business bigger than ever after the amazing Randi exposed him in the 80s using a hidden earpiece is a testament to how gullible people can be.

You will get things like a small green cross with really weird instructions, like "take a piece of lint off your curtain, put it on the cross with 3 drops of cooking oil, then sleep on it and mail it back to me with 160 dollars." Then, when he gets nothing back, you will get a second letter saying "how about 70 dollars?" lol

Oh yeah, he also sends you free miracle water and a packet of regular table salt, but says the water and salt only become a miracle once you send him money!

 

[thebluerider]

No, Catholics are the largest single denomination but if you combine all the Protestant denominations they are a slight majority at 51%


http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/05/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf

my bad you right

 

[method115]

You will get things like a small green cross with really weird instructions, like "take a piece of lint off your curtain, put it on the cross with 3 drops of cooking oil, then sleep on it and mail it back to me with 160 dollars." Then, when he gets nothing back, you will get a second letter saying "how about 70 dollars?" lol

Wow this reminds me of this guy I saw on intervention who would spend all his money (disability I think) on those Nigerian "inherited money" scams. You would hear him arraigning with the guys. "I already sent you the money". "I know sir but we just need one more $250 payment and then we can get that money released for you".

 

[bref]

If you're stupid enough to fall for this bullshit you'll get no sympathy from me, though the people who run these scams deserve cancer.

 

[eworden78]

If you're stupid enough to fall for this bullshit you'll get no sympathy from me, though the people who run these scams deserve cancer.

What good would that do? They would just cure themselves with prayer!