Opinion John Oliver destroying the false prophets

[JonesBones]

First of all, Sam Harris isn't nearly as clever as he thinks he is. His arguments are often simplistic and facile. He gets way outside of his lane and his worst sin is when he doesn't realize that his grasp has exceeded his intellectual reach, such as the time he got himself way over his head with Noam Chomsky but had no idea how out of his element he truly was. As an atheist, I find myself embarrassed to be associated with his brand of public intellectualism.

In a number of ways, a church or a religious gathering of both the physical locale or the social grouping is a natural and inevitable emergent phenomenon of the human social animal. Putting aside the supernatural trappings of religion, local churches perform extremely useful and absolutely integral functions of the community. Churches exist to provide a place for all community members to gather in one place, engendering a sense of community. Before modern times and government social safety nets, churches were often the first and only line of welfare in times of crises or need, especially for newcomers. In day to day life, they provided a way to organize community events that require group effort, from barn raising to family picnics.

Whether it be singing together as a group or discussing interpretations of shared stories to performing weddings or helping a family whose home has just burned down, churches do much more and are much more than a method of control by which to spread religion.

The last thing that the poorest of churches that exist among the poorest of people is to take from them. This is most obvious in the fact the poorest and least economically privileged of communities are net receivers of moneys from larger, wealthier congregations, whether it be through mainline or evangelical Protestant denominations or the Catholic church. The poorest tithe little or nothing and both the clergy and church buildings are supported by wealthier congregations.

And that's not even getting into the role of clergymen in the past half century in speaking out against injustice and oppression, from liberation theologist Catholics of Latin America, passive resistance black church leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr to the Buddhist monks of Burma.

Buk, do yourself a favor and stop listening to Sam Harris so much. His attitudes are as much harmful as they are helpful.

Sam Harris is beyond his intellectual reach on every subject. He picks the low hanging fruit, as that is all him and his followers can reach.

Him and Bukowski's enemies also fit with the places America is continually bombing the fuck out of. Which is more a dangerous and destructive ideology than Islam imo. Chomsky drilled a hole in Harris's ass over that. It has become a vehicle for people of mediocre intelligence to feel smarter and ethical than people. Lazily. It is a labor saving device. Like conspiracy theories. The topics that Sam Harris covers -- nobody should read Sam Harris on. He adds nothing to them. He writes philosophy "booklets".

They also obviously have an emotional connection to religion. They orbit it. They think about religion, and it consumes their life, more than most religious people. They are chained to it, in a reactionary pattern. It still controls them, and they shadow it. Follow its motion.

Insipid writer, you pretend to draw for your readers
The portraits of your 3 impostors;
How is it that, witlessly, you have become the fourth?
Why, poor enemy of the supreme essence,
Do you confuse Mohammed and the Creator,
And the deeds of man with God, his author?...
Criticize the servant, but respect the master.
God should not suffer for the stupidity of the priest:
Let us recognize this God, although he is poorly served.

My lodging is filled with lizards and rats;
But the architect exists, and anyone who denies it
Is touched with madness under the guise of wisdom.
Consult Zoroaster, and Minos, and Solon,
And the martyr Socrates, and the great Cicero:
They all adored a master, a judge, a father.
This sublime system is necessary to man.
It is the sacred tie that binds society,
The first foundation of holy equity,
The bridle to the wicked, the hope of the just.

If the heavens, stripped of his noble imprint,
Could ever cease to attest to his being,
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
Let the wise man announce him and kings fear him.
Kings, if you oppress me, if your eminencies disdain
The tears of the innocent that you cause to flow,
My avenger is in the heavens: learn to tremble.

-Voltaire

 

[HereticBD]

I honestly don't blame the televangalists. If they can still convince mass groups of idiots to send them money, and believe in them in this day and age, more power to them. At this point, I can't fault them. It's purely the blind devotion of idiots that is driving them. It's not like they're these highly clever con-artists. They're selling miracles, and people are buying them. How stupid can people get? That's how stupid. There comes a point where I can't feel sorry for people.

As for Oliver "exposing" them, he's about 40 years behind on that. Must've been a slow week. He may as well "expose" Pro Wrestling while he's at it.

 

[Terry Noonan]

I honestly don't blame the televangalists. If they can still convince mass groups of idiots to send them money, and believe in them in this day and age, more power to them. At this point, I can't fault them. It's purely the blind devotion of idiots that is driving them. It's not like they're these highly clever con-artists. They're selling miracles, and people are buying them. How stupid can people get? That's how stupid. There comes a point where I can't feel sorry for people.

As for Oliver "exposing" them, he's about 40 years behind on that.

This. But anyone rattling off shit about religion bothers me, regardless of their intentions.

This does tip the scale though, scamming people by preying on their beliefs is pretty low. This seed thing is Scientology level of creativity for getting people to believe the more you spend the more religious goodwill you will obtain down the road.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

John Oliver is an unfunny dipshit.

 

[Shokushu Goukan]

I honestly don't blame the televangalists. If they can still convince mass groups of idiots to send them money, and believe in them in this day and age, more power to them. At this point, I can't fault them. It's purely the blind devotion of idiots that is driving them. It's not like they're these highly clever con-artists. They're selling miracles, and people are buying them. How stupid can people get? That's how stupid. There comes a point where I can't feel sorry for people.

As for Oliver "exposing" them, he's about 40 years behind on that. Must've been a slow week. He may as well "expose" Pro Wrestling while he's at it.

For the most part, you can say the same about presidential candidates we vote for. All of them lie and the ones who tell the truth do not stand a chance at getting elected.

As far as 40 years behind, the prosperity gospel is pretty new. It is not the same as Jim Baker akaik. It is all about this "seed" being money you send them to get to favors from God.
If one person wakes up and stops wasting money on these assholes, I think John Oliver has accomplished something.
And for those who know nothing about this, which might be a large portion of JO's audience, well now they know.

It is a funny news show. Not sure if that means they can only tackle brand new issues. Can he do a show about sexism or racism or is he 1000s of years too late on those as well?

 

[method115]

John Oliver is an unfunny dipshit.

I saw he had a stand up special and I decided to watch it and it was really bad. Like I couldn't believe how bad it was. Easily one of if not the worst stand up I've ever seen.

 

[HereticBD]

For the most part, you can say the same about presidential candidates we vote for. All of them lie and the ones who tell the truth do not stand a chance at getting elected.

As far as 40 years behind, the prosperity gospel is pretty new. It is not the same as Jim Baker akaik. It is all about this "seed" being money you send them to get to favors from God.
If one person wakes up and stops wasting money on these assholes, I think John Oliver has accomplished something.
And for those who know nothing about this, which might be a large portion of JO's audience, well now they know.

It is a funny news show. Not sure if that means they can only tackle brand new issues. Can he do a show about sexism or racism or is he 1000s of years too late on those as well?

John Oliver hasn't accomplished anything with this piece that all the scandals in the 80's didn't. What percentage of Oliver's audience do you think he reached? Do you honestly think anyone watching his show was one of these devout Christian morons? Even if they were, do you think John fucking Oliver reached them? They're unreachable.

Don't get so defensive. I like the show, but that was a pretty lazy target. The skit was even lazier.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Sam Harris is beyond his intellectual reach on every subject. He picks the low hanging fruit, as that is all him and his followers can reach.

Him and Bukowski's enemies also fit with the places America is continually bombing the fuck out of. Which is more a dangerous and destructive ideology than Islam imo. Chomsky drilled a hole in Harris's ass over that. It has become a vehicle for people of mediocre intelligence to feel smarter and ethical than people. Lazily. It is a labor saving device. Like conspiracy theories. The topics that Sam Harris covers -- nobody should read Sam Harris on. He adds nothing to them. He writes philosophy "booklets".

They also obviously have an emotional connection to religion. They orbit it. They think about religion, and it consumes their life, more than most religious people. They are chained to it, in a reactionary pattern. It still controls them, and they shadow it. Follow its motion.

 

[MikeMcMann]

i don't go to church, and i don't give them money. i was raised catholic, and priests are not living the high life. it's a humble existence, whether you choose to believe that or not.

This deserves an "lol wut?"

I am guessing you have heard of this?

Spoiler

Ya priests may not be living the high life but they are fleecing the sheep and raking in money hand over fist far more than that charlatan. The priests are just more gullible as they pass the money off for someone else to live large rather than keeping it themselves.



Mother Theresa, for example was known for being one of the Church's biggest fundraisers by exploiting the poor in India, getting tons of donations from people who wanted to help and shipping the money off to the church head quarters spending almost noting on the poor. Her excuse was that suffering helped bring people closer to God and therefore she did not want to distance them from god by reducing their suffering. You would think then she might say to those donating believing their money was helping the poor that it was not in fact (or let them know how little gets to them) and that there donations were moving mostly upstream to build castles.

Funny that if a food company says "this product is healthy" the better be able to prove it otherwise they get shut down. A church can say al kinds of crazy stuff and be left alone.

 

[Winnie The Foo]

The tax issue should be smaller issue here. We should be focused on why the government allows these preachers to scam money from people.

I've gone back and forth on whether or not I think this should be illegal. And I mean I don't like the idea of people being taken advantage of. But how do you regulate it?

They're basically saying "give me money, and something good will happen". If they're not making a specific claim ie. "give me $200 dollars and I will cure your cancer." I don't see how they're at fault, especially if they actually believe in it all.

 

[Viva]

John Oliver is an unfunny dipshit.

B-b-but he's snarky and British!

 

[j123]

I turned on the tv a few nights ago after a long day and saw Benny Hinn Ministries while channel surfing. On the bottom right there was a watermark listing a 40 year anniversary. How the hell is this guy/organization scamming people for 40 years and getting away with it.

 

[windkick]

His 2 FIFA bits were hilarious

 

[JonesBones]

Alain De Botton is like Sam Harris for intelligent people. He's an atheist but doesn't deny the fruits of religious experience in terms of community, repetition of moral values, the concept of "the sacred" as something valuable...etc. He makes some similar arguments to what you're proposing here, without the nonsense about needing to invent a god.

You need to see the larger picture. Humanity needs a fucking foil. That is outside the system.... It also needs a higher being to aspire to be. A better nature. Jung defined God as "the highest value". The value that does not exist here on Earth yet. It exists in the sky, as the ideal. But that ideal will have its revenge. That lie will become truth.

I HAD rather believe all the fables in the Legend, 1 and the Talmud, 2 and the Alcoran, 3 than that this universal frame is without a mind. And therefore God never wrought miracle to convince 4 atheism, because his ordinary works convince it. It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man

 

[thebluerider]

This deserves an "lol wut?"

I am guessing you have heard of this?

Spoiler

Ya priests may not be living the high life but they are fleecing the sheep and raking in money hand over fist far more than that charlatan. The priests are just more gullible as they pass the money off for someone else to live large rather than keeping it themselves.



Mother Theresa, for example was known for being one of the Church's biggest fundraisers by exploiting the poor in India, getting tons of donations from people who wanted to help and shipping the money off to the church head quarters spending almost noting on the poor. Her excuse was that suffering helped bring people closer to God and therefore she did not want to distance them from god by reducing their suffering. You would think then she might say to those donating believing their money was helping the poor that it was not in fact (or let them know how little gets to them) and that there donations were moving mostly upstream to build castles.

Funny that if a food company says "this product is healthy" the better be able to prove it otherwise they get shut down. A church can say al kinds of crazy stuff and be left alone.

you are completely missing the point. good work.

 

[highkicknomore]

Didn't know atheists are more miserable than the religious freaks.

 

[Shokushu Goukan]

Didn't know atheists are more miserable than the religious freaks.

Are you new here? Most of the atheists on here tend to be very butthurt and think they are above all religious people.

 

[highkicknomore]

Are you new here? Most of the atheists on here tend to be very butthurt and think they are above all religious people.

I don't follow religious threads. I thought atheists would be friendly and easy going like hipsters.

 

[HereticBD]

I don't follow religious threads. I thought atheists would be friendly and easy going like hipsters.

They're predictably as obnoxious as any other group claiming to know the unknowable.

 

[Snackbar]

If you're in a church... Then you're in a church like that. Even if it's on a much smaller level.

The fact that your opinion on christian churches comes from Osteen and Meyers completely explains your posts regarding religion around here.

On an unrelated topic, I know and understand all the inner workings of the NFL and all of its players because I saw Ray Rice on TMZ awhile back.